Clomid Buddies (moved to LTTTC board)

[BelleNuit]

Sarah I think it would be worse if I started femara now. I honestly don't expect femara to work as it often doesn't for unexplained, and I'm not ready to start IUIs until later in the spring. It also gives me some measure of comfort knowing there is still a low grade intervention (femara) that we can try down the line

 

[Norelisa]

Bfn this morning and still spotting (really light spotting), but waves of period pain coming and going for two days. I'm not supposed to stop progesterone unless full flow af, so I really hope it will start today. If it starts today I can still fit in hsg on Friday.. Otherwise I'll have to think of something else I can do, haha �� maybe looking for some magic beans in the forest of chiang mai. If I find I'm happy to send to all of you!!

 

[sarah2211]

Belle, that's fair enough. What sort of odds do they give for Femara with unexplained? Will you do Femara and IUI? I'm feeling like IUI/IVF isn't as far away as we use to think about it all. I know I've still got a good chance in the next few months but we could do IUI if DH goes away. From January he's on 72 hour standby to be deployed. Last year we had about a week of going/not going but when they made the decision to go, he was out of the country in less than 24 hours and I got maybe 2 hours with him before he left. I'm not sure if it's enough time to get him to the clinic... I actually found out a friend of a friend who is an army wife and lives on the same base as us went through fertility treatment. She did 1 cycle of IUI with frozen swimmers while her husband was away. It was a BFN and they took a break to get ready for IVF and conceived the next cycle. We are going to catch up properly in the next few weeks.

I'm sorry Norelisa, I wish AF would just hurry up! (Of course is rather if she stayed away..!) hopefully you can get your HSG this week. Probably if you stopped progesterone you'd get a full flow, if it's anything like provera. But follow your doctor's advice. And yes I need all the magic beans you can find please!

 

[sarah2211]

For you ladies who've had a Clomid AF, was it heavy? I'm so use to light AFs.. I've had heaps of back pain and cramping too

 

[BelleNuit]

I think the odds with femara and unexplained are around 5%. I think we will start femara and IUI in May/June as that will give us another 6 months to try. With unexplained expectant management for a period of time is part of the treatment approach.

I hope you'll catch in the next cycle Sarah so you don't have to worry about DH going away! Sorry AF is so painful for you right now! For what it's worth since starting acupuncture my AFs aren't painful at all and they used to be pretty bad

 

[Norelisa]

For you ladies who've had a Clomid AF, was it heavy? I'm so use to light AFs.. I've had heaps of back pain and cramping too

I had a very light period after first round of clomid so when we checked the lining after round 2 it was on the thin side so I got a little bit of progesterone to help thicken the lining. I am still waiting for af, but I guess it will be heavier than last time.

 

[sarah2211]

Belle, what are the odds with expectant management? It's hard because you want to do something, anything to help. I know you really want to get there without treatment, especially because the treatment doesn't exactly increase your odds by a lot. I'm really hoping we get out BFP next month. I'll probably end up being 12 DPO on Christmas Day. I'm glad your AFs aren't that bad now. I'm hoping mine will ease up tomorrow.

Norelisa, I don't think there's anyway my lining could have been thin! I'm glad your doctor put you on progesterone. Will they check this time around too?

 

[Nita2806]

Sarah - AF for me was horrible after clomid, lasted 7 days instead of 4 or 5 like usual and the pain was unbearable. It was also very heavy so i am sure my lining didnt thin on Clomid. If the pain is bad for you, one thing that works like a charm for me is a hot water bottle directly on the place i feel the most pain, takes a few minutes to work but it works better for me than pain killers.

Belle - not sure this will make you feel better but maybe it will give you hope... I have a client who have been trying to get pregnant for a few years, they spent about 100 000 Rand per year on treatment without any success. About 2 years ago they gave up on treatment because of the costs, just after they gave up she fell pregnant naturally with twins and they were born perfectly. So maybe trying to conceive naturally might just do the trick.

I am starting to get very sick again, and no doctors are open on a sunday here, so i guess i will wait till tomorow and go back a third time, but i think i might ask for bloodtests to see whats going on

 

[Nita2806]

Also i think i might be ovulating, i feel somewhat lubricated down there (sorry for the tmi) and i took a sample and it was egg white and very slippery and stretchy. Its going to be hard to tell DH that i might be fertile today but we really should not BD, as i have taken more painkillers this morning

 

[Aphy]

Nita,if you do O today or possibly tomorrow,I can't imagine the pain tablets would affect it since it wouldn't have implanted yet until 5-12 dpo. I could be mistaken though...

 

[BelleNuit]

Sarah I have about a 45% chance of conceiving naturally in the next 6 months to 1 year based on our own factors (there's actually a calculator) which is about the same likelihood of success as treatment. They say if your odds are above 30% you should do expectant management.

I read a longitudinal study that 80% of unexplained couples conceive eventually and about 70% of those couples end up conceiving spontaneously.

Thanks Nita that follows a lot of what I read for unexplained. Most do end up conceiving spontaneously so we'll stick the course as its more cost effective and offers the same odds of success as treatment

 

[Ask4joy]

For you ladies who've had a Clomid AF, was it heavy? I'm so use to light AFs.. I've had heaps of back pain and cramping too

Yes, Sarah. AF has been shorter on clomid (used to be 6-7 days but last 2 months 4-5 days) but the first 2 days have been very heavy and clotty and lots of cramps and extreme back pain. I always get back pain but it has seemed worse the last 2 months. So sorry you are in pain!

I'm really feeling anxious about possible endo surgery. I've read it takes several weeks to recover and no longer be in pain. Not to mention, being under and being cut open in my lower abdomen in several places makes me very uneasy. I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion before going ahead with it. I know people who have had it done and then conceived the next cycle...I just hate not knowing if it's necessary (there's no way to confirm endo without laparoscopic surgery.) I don't have painful sex (one of the major symptoms) but the first 2 days of AF have always been very painful (mostly back pain).

Belle - can you share the calculator?

 

[Nita2806]

For you ladies who've had a Clomid AF, was it heavy? I'm so use to light AFs.. I've had heaps of back pain and cramping too

Yes, Sarah. AF has been shorter on clomid (used to be 6-7 days but last 2 months 4-5 days) but the first 2 days have been very heavy and clotty and lots of cramps and extreme back pain. I always get back pain but it has seemed worse the last 2 months. So sorry you are in pain!

I'm really feeling anxious about possible endo surgery. I've read it takes several weeks to recover and no longer be in pain. Not to mention, being under and being cut open in my lower abdomen in several places makes me very uneasy. I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion before going ahead with it. I know people who have had it done and then conceived the next cycle...I just hate not knowing if it's necessary (there's no way to confirm endo without laparoscopic surgery.) I don't have painful sex (one of the major symptoms) but the first 2 days of AF have always been very painful (mostly back pain).

Ask - in my personal opinion i would get a second opinion. Going for a lapa is a big thing and its not something i would do if i am not 100% sure.

 

[Rawan]

Sarah-my period after clomid was much lighter compared to the other ones, it was only heavy on cd 1, and after that was very light

Belle-yeah I agree, for unexplained infertility, even with treatment, the chance of success isn't increased that much...I am still considering whether to try on our own for awhile or consider other possible treatments, eg, follistim injection if femara doesn't work...

Ask-I think it might be worth it to get a 2nd opinion. Like you said, laparoscopic surgery is a big surgery, and I probably wouldn't do it unless I am sure I have endometriosis.

 

[BelleNuit]

Here's the link Ask https://www.freya.nl/probability.php I definitely would get a second opinion on that lap. From all I've read its not something that is routinely done unless they strongly suspect endo. I'm not sure painful AFs are a strong enough indication of endo. Keep in mind if you aren't comfortable with it you can always decline. It hasn't even been a year yet, so this is something you could do when you're past the one year mark if you are still concerned about it. I wouldn't consider invasive diagnostic procedures unless it was over one year (unless there were strong indicators of endo)

Rawan how long have you been trying? If its less than 2 years then expectant management (just continuing to try) definitely makes sense for unexplained!

 

[Rawan]

Belle-me and dh have been trying since May this year, before we were ntnp
Since the last femara cycle didn't work, I am wondering if I should put myself through all these med...but I know that even with perfect timing and everything, the chance of conception is not that high, around 25 %

 

[sarah2211]

Thanks Nita, your Clomid AF sounds very similar to mine. I have a wheat bag that I've been putting on my lower back. My upper thighs have also been really crampy.

On my other, non medicated cycles I'd get AF but it was always light and I never had any pain/get emotional/irritable/cramping/skin break outs/PMS. Maybe it's just the massive contrast that took me by surprise.

And if you're feeling up to BDing, do! I wouldn't think the pain pills would do any damage.

Belle, 45% is pretty good. I did the calculator (even though it said it's not suitable for women with ovulatory disorders) and I got 31.7%! How was yours so high? Haha probably your DH's super sperm.

Ask, I'd definitely put it off until further down the track or get a second opinion. I've had two laps, once to get my appendix removed and the other time was to check for endo. I was 18 and had heavy, painful periods (which seem to have disappeared in the last year). My gyno was convinced I had endo. Got in, no endo, but removed a lot of scar tissue from my appendix. It was painful and I wish I hadn't done it. Apart from the fact I can rule that out now as a problem, I think it was a waste of time for me to do it. If you went ahead, you'd probably be out for a whole cycle.

Rawan, I really wouldn't be messing around with fertility drugs this early if you don't have an ovulatory condition. Like I posted earlier, you've got the potential for more harm than good. Especially when it takes the average couple 12 months to conceive. I have PCOS and tried for 10 months on our own before Clomid. I know you want to be pregnant now, we all do, but if it could hurt yours chances... I don't mean to be horrible, but what if last month was your month but the Clomid just thinned your lining too much?

 

[BelleNuit]

Hey Rawan, I'm inclined to agree with Sarah on this one, especially since fertility drugs don't often help that much in women who already ovulate. That's why I've put off trying them out, I don't really expect it to do anything. I'll do it as a next step just so that I don't have to move straight into IUI

Sarah it was definitely the super sperm that increased our odds haha. That's part of why it is so confusing that we haven't been able to conceive yet! We literally have everything going for us! Literally... a billion swimmers each cycle with great motility and nothing for a year! Its nuts and there is nothing wrong on my end either aside from potentially a thin lining (which acupuncture is supposed to help with). I guess we'll see how heavy my AF is tomorrow. I'm actually hoping its super heavy this cycle haha. I've been reading into pre-implantation failure and some women have an immuno condition that prevents the embryo from implanting. I wonder if something like that is going on for us. I find it very unlikely with the test results that we've had that we've never conceived once in the past 15 cycles. Although I have done some reading and there is a percentage of couples in the unexplained category who are there just by pure chance with nothing wrong (of course, the likelihood of that decreases over time). I would have that kind of luck that I would be in this situation just by pure chance. UGH

 

[sarah2211]

Belle, have you had a post coital test? There are a few other things that can cause infertility but they don't occur as often was the PCOS or male factor infertility. Things like autoimmune infertility, acidic CM and other things going on with the Soren that SA can't pick up. A YouTube video I watched said there's probably no such thing as 'unexplained' it's just that we don't have the tests (or they haven't been done) to detect the problem. It sounds like you have a good plan though, it's hard to not want to try everything and jump right into treatment because it might work.

 

[BelleNuit]

I'll ask about the post-coital test after we do 3 cycles of femara (that would put us into April). I agree with that, there's no such thing as unexplained. I guess I just don't want to waste money on treatment when it doesn't off better odds than just continuing to try