Don't think it was the tongue tie after all :(

[Lady_Bee]

Just need to talk about this with people who understand.

I have been trying for almost 4 months to increase my milk supply and get my breastfeeding relationship back.

I had put LO's failure to gain after the first week down to his tongue tie but now I think it was my body failing me all along.

I have been pumping and pumping for months, around the clock. These past 2 weeks I got a double pump from my local surestart centre and I've been really diligently pumping and trying to get my baby on my boob all the time. I was told it should only take a week or so to get my full supply back. I was feeling really positive about it.

But after all that hard work I just checked my output tonight, emptied my boobs on the pump and got 2 oz in nearly 3 hours. That's rubbish.

Just like before, it seems I literally CANNOT produce more than around 16-18 oz per day. That is my peak output.

Now it makes more sense, why my breasts never got properly engorged in the beginning and why my appetite barely increased.

I feel so low

I want to know why supply is broken. Is there an underlying cause???

I don't think I have insufficient glandular tissue (though my breasts are really small). I do think it could be thyroid related as I have wondered for years if I might be hypo. The only symptom I don't have is being overweight (I'm actually really thin). I might get checked because I'm really scared I will have a low supply for my next child and honestly I cannot go through this again. It's breaking me emotionally I just want to let this go but I feel so betrayed.

 

[vintage67]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I was never able to get as much out with a pump as you have gotten. Did the herbs and all of it.

I don't know why these things happen but they do. It isn't unique; they have found feeding instruments on archaeological digs, and in more recent times my mother told me of women she knew in the 1930's in our family who had very low supply. They just started solids earlier and supplemented with cow's milk in some cases. Kind of culturally dependent on where you lived, but mother's found a way to manage if they could.

I wish I could say something magical to take that grief away as I know it all too well. One thing I can say half serious and half not would be to stay offline for a while It is of course a harsh place sometimes.

I have two formula fed children and I love them so much I would die for them, no hesitation, not a nano second. I have devoted my life to them and making them happy and keeping them healthy. I wanted so much to give them breastmilk and it felt akin to grieving a death when it didn't work out twice. But my rational self looks at two healthy children who love me. It will be okay.

I think you've done very well and 12-18 ounces is a very respectable amount to get from a pump. I never got that much even pumping around the clock and I have heard of many others that couldn't get that much either. So your baby has been been getting quite a bit of breastmilk.

I do have hypothyroidism and am diabetic. Both of those things are known to have an effect on supply. My mother and at least 2 of her sisters had low supply.

Every pregnancy is different though and quite a few women with low supply the first time have a better supply the next go around.

You are always welcome in the support thread at the top of them forum. Just when you think you're well adjusted to it, the bad feelings can come on sometimes.

Be sure you are completely ready before you officially stop pumping because that is a pretty good amount. I know you must be exhausted though!

Please try to not get overly depressed about this or let others' statements add to your feelings of grief and depression! We're each on our own journey in this and no one knows but us what we have each been through!

 

[Rainbow7]

Oh Hun try not to beat yourself up. Know it's impossible not to at times like this though. My LO had a Tongue tie too and had it snipped, making no difference to feeding whatsoever. When we took her for 8 week check, the doctor was very puzzled and asked why we'd had it cut as they don't recommend it as apparently it's pointless. The midwife had strongly advised it!!! I was so hopeful that it would help with breast feeding issues but it didn't at all. I'm now bottle feeding. Saw a breast feeding consultant but by then she was so used to bottle. Can you try and speak to one in your area as wish I'd done that sooner. Hope you're ok. Hugs x

 

[Kage76]

I was utterly crap at getting milk out via the pump- (the MOST i got out on one session was 30mls) i was a GD and i was very stressed after birth which i have been told is terrible for getting a supply up. Unfortunately sometimes our bodies just don't do what they are "supposed" to. Like some people can't get pregnant naturally- some people just can't make enough milk.

Just remember that even if you have to supplement- your LO is still getting so much benefit from what you are able to produce- and from my experience a bottle fed baby is no less loved than one that is exclusively BF.

Be kind to yourself and please know that even if you can't reach your ideal you and your baby are going to be fine- he will love you just as much either way you feed. As vintage said please read through our stories on the sticky above- at the very least you will know that you are not alone.

 

[Lady_Bee]

Thank you, it's just soooo not what I imagined when I first found out I was pregnant. I always looked forward to breastfeeding my baby.

I know 18 oz is a good amount Just not enough for him, alas. I wish I knew the reason for my low supply so that I can prepare myself the next time if it's likely to happen again.

The support thread is great, I'm really sad for all the women who post there as I know the grief well but it's also good to know I'm not the only one. It sucks doesn't it. Stupid boobs.

Anyway thank you for your kind words I'm not giving up pumping yet and haven't quite given up hope yet (still want to try domperidone and goat's rue) but I don't think it's ever going to work really...

 

[iow_bird]

sorry to hear you are struggling with breastfeeding. If you want to continue I would recommend seeing a lactation consultant.
Also the amount you are able to pump is not the same as the amount you produce when baby is suckling, some women can't express a drop but can feed their LO's successfully for as long as the choose to. The more you can get baby on the breast the better. Sometimes these things take time and you are doing an amazing job persevering!
If you are looking for more support and advice there are a few ladies trying relactation on the breastfeeding boards.
Good luck and remember if you do turn to combi-feeding or bottlefeeding, you are an amazing mummy and the most important thing for both of you is that you are both happy and relaxed!

 

[Lady_Bee]

iow_bird,

Thanks for your suggestions, however, I've already seen 3 lactation consultants and the best they seem to be able to do is say "put baby to breast more" which I have tried and it always results in one stressed baby who is losing weight and not getting enough wet nappies!! The latch is fine, the milk volume is not. Poop.

I'm confident that what I get with the pump is what I can produce - I have pumped for 4 months and am pretty good at it! I can get multiple let downs with it and my boobs are soft and 'empty' when I'm done.

Honestly I do think I have a real supply issue. Somebody has to be in that small group of women who aren't able to produce enough milk. Why not me?

I tried asking for help on the bf forum but awkwardly have been mostly ignored! I get depressed when I read about successful relactation stories because it always reads like if you do enough work you will succeed. But honestly? I've worked harder than most people ever will. And it isn't working. I think it's time to come to terms with the fact that for whatever reason this is my limit.

Anyway thank you. I know I'm doing the best I can so I have to learn to be at peace with that. :]

 

[vintage67]

Nothing will ever be "good enough" for some possibly well meaning
people.

I pumped until my aereolas peeled to get less than an ounce a day when I finally had to say "enough was enough." And on the so-called support site that I was on, my story and along with many others was very coldly "dismissed." (another site)

Oddly, I am just home from the grocery store right now and ran into someone I hadn't seen in a long while and didn't know I had a baby. Within minutes I found myself gushing forth with what happened with this baby, my hospitalization and seperation from him and having to accept formula--again, with baby #2. She said her sister in law had just started getting better after a horrible round of depression where she had to seek a therapist. Her baby had some sort of pallette issue, and she pumped herself into near insanity till the amounts dwindled to nothing.

As the breastfeeding message gets stronger (a worthwhile goal) the venturing into the negative (no longer listing benefits of breastfeeding, but rather risks of formula, I fear more women will pump, fenugreek and oatmeal themselves into deep depressions when it "doesn't work"

 

[Kage76]

Personally- i HATE the 99% of women produce milk/breastfeed slogan that gets flung around with gay abandon. I truly beleive that supply issue exist and by the above definition you ARE breastfeeding. But the unspoken word that exists in the above sentance is that "99% of women are able to breastfeed exclusively". Supply issues do exist- they have existed for centuries.

You have done all you can- your son IS getting all the benefits of breastfeeding and the formula you are using to top him up is absolutely doing no harm to him. Pump for as long as you can but when it comes time to let it go- don't ever feel that you failed him because that is not at all the case.

an interesting article i found explains where the 1% statistic came from. https://boobshalffull.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/the-root-of-the-1-myth/

 

[vintage67]

Personally- i HATE the 99% of women produce milk/breastfeed slogan that gets flung around with gay abandon. I truly beleive that supply issue exist and by the above definition you ARE breastfeeding. But the unspoken word that exists in the above sentance is that "99% of women are able to breastfeed exclusively". Supply issues do exist- they have existed for centuries.

You have done all you can- your son IS getting all the benefits of breastfeeding and the formula you are using to top him up is absolutely doing no harm to him. Pump for as long as you can but when it comes time to let it go- don't ever feel that you failed him because that is not at all the case.

an interesting article i found explains where the 1% statistic came from. https://boobshalffull.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/the-root-of-the-1-myth/

Brilliant Kage! Thanks for finding that! There was a lactation consultant in the hospital where I had my last son that debunked that 99% thing. I was on a floor where high risk patients were and those are the clients she sees; diabetics, PCOS, traumatic births. She told me that 99% of women can lactate or at least 97% or so. Total lack of lactation is truly rare, but does happen. BUT! As she pointed out that doesn't mean that 99% of women can successfully exclusively breastfeed.

I would have died in childbirth with my first, if I had lived to be 36 years old in the first place in a tribal, agrarian society without access to medication to regulate the beat of my heart. That article is very good and makes a good deal of sense.

 

[Eala]

I hate the way the 1% (or 5% or whatever the number of the day is) figure is thrown about. And you know what, even if it is that number (which I doubt very much), that still means that a HUGE number of women will actually experience it! So if every single time someone cites supply issues as a reason for things going wrong, they are told "Oh, you were just booby-trapped, you most likely could have done it!" then there will be a fair number of women being told something which is patently untrue.

Bottle Babies did a piece on this which I really like - https://www.facebook.com/notes/bott...out-women-who-cant-breastfeed/174242565987038

Lady_Bee, I'm sorry to hear that you are finding things so hard. I was told by several docs that it's quite common to develop thyroid problems during and/or immediately post-pregnancy, so it would definitely be worth getting your levels checked. I hope you start to feel better soon

 

[Lady_Bee]

I hate the 5% statistic too. There comes a point where it's downright insulting. That's 1 in 20 women!!!

I saw a lactation consultant again yesterday for a follow up (since I'd borrowed the double pump from her) and I told her that I hadn't seen any increase in milk supply and I was going to stop now and just nurse LO occasionally for as long as he is willing. To my surprise, for once she actually believed me! She didn't say, "But you can't judge your supply by what you pump", and she didn't say, "you just need to trust your body! Your supply is fine!" and she didn't tell me to "just do lots of skin to skin and drink plenty of fluids" and she didn't tell me any of that stuff I've been told hundreds of times that I always found so invalidating and frustrating.

This time, she actually suggested that I stop pumping and stop trying to increase my milk supply, that I had done all I can, that I had done more than enough. That I had reached the limits of my body.

I wish she had listened to me before. It's amazing how much better that "permission" to stop made me feel. I had already given myself permission, but it was comforting to hear it from her.

None of this was my fault, I wasn't doing anything wrong.

In the beginning I used to tell her every week my concerns that I didn't have enough milk and my baby was hardly swallowing anything when I nursed him, and she would just say, "Well I'm sure he is swallowing, you probably just can't see/hear it". No, I KNEW he wasn't swallowing. I watched like a hawk for the swallowing. Obsessively. But I was just a first time mum so what did I know?

I'm glad I went with my gut on this.
I think back to the one time I believed her and how my baby had become so exhausted from the lack of calories that he stopped waking for feeds at night, and I get a massive lump in my throat. He was so little and defenceless and I was failing him. And that lactation consultant never believed me when I said that I HAD to supplement him because he was slowly starving. She said that I was just lacking confidence and needed to trust my body because IT WOULD PROVIDE. It just would. Well, it never did.

I know there are many women who are misinformed and imagine they are experiencing low supply when they are not, but it is really insulting for those of us who ARE experiencing low supply to be told that we are imagining everything and are merely having confidence issues.

It's very invalidating, not to mention dangerous.

Anyway, she believes me NOW about my low supply. I suppose that's something.
She put it entirely down to stress. I don't know about that. But she doesn't think I will have the same issues next time I nurse a newborn. I do hope she's right about that. But I will prepare for the same scenario again to save myself the heartbreak if everything goes wrong. And I will know the warning signs. I will be much better prepared whatever happens.

 

[Kage76]

I'm so pleased that you are more at peace with your "Choice".

I had the same thing- it took my brilliant MW to look at me like a i had grown a third head after i had one of my many many meltdowns about breastfeeding- and say-" but Kate- you *have* been breastfeeding and its ok to stop when its not working for you" it was like a huge weight was lifted.

Im also going to the same as you with my next- i am not going to be as determined to breastfeed- im going to go into it with an open mind and if it doesn't work then so be it. I swear next time I am going to be a lot kinder to myself than i was this time round.

enjoy the time with your little man- they get to be so much fun from here on end!

 

[xsadiex]

You've done so well to continue pumping for so long as it's so much work. Breastfeeding is of course great but you've given it such a good go.
I have recently given up breastfeeding as my LO bit me everytime I tried to bf him for 3 weeks. I just had to do what was best for me and him, which was switching. I was getting awful anxiety from pumping all the time trying to keep my supply up and being bitten everytime I put him on the boob. I've come to terms with my decision now and feel much happier, at first it was hard and I did cry a lot but now I know I did the right thing.
Don't feel guilty if you do decide to swap, I found avoiding the breastfeeding section helped me lots
XXXX