EPU's attitude has shocked me!

[shirlls]

Some of you might have already seen my previous posts.

Up until Monday night things seemed to be going fine. Then I went to the loo and wiped and there was pink blood, but only when I wiped. I phoned nhs 24 who told me to wait it out overnight and to phone back if got worse, but if not to contact early pregnancy unit in the morning. I phoned them, took me 4 hours to get through, and was hoping they would see me that day. I was meant to be leaving that night to visit MIL who lives in countryside 100 miles away. and we were unsure what to do. I was offered a scan on FRIDAY (today) and when I explained about going away the midwife basically said it was up to me to decide what to do. As I had no more bleeding we decided just to go which is where I am now.

Then on New Years day I started having contraction type pains, pain in waves travelling from lower back to my stomach, and I started bleeding lightly, more than just when I wipe and it was going on to a pad. I phoned nhs24 who said as it was a holiday unless I was in unbearable pain and flowing red blood the only thing I could do is go to a&e but I had no transport as MIL was away with the car. Yesterday I had to phone nhs 24 again as bleeding got heavier (but not red blood) and I was told I would get a scan today if I saw roys mums doctor. I went to the doctor who told me there are no scanning facilities where we are and Glasgow (where I stay) is the nearest. I phoned the early pregnancy unit today and they refused to see me until next THURSDAY and told me I refused a scan today and chose to go on holiday so apparently I can't expect them to see me before then! I told her I am having contractions and bleeding is getting heavier and asked her what am I meant to do until then. She just said there was nothing they can do and to go to a&e! Obviously if I had been bleeding I wouldnt have gone on holiday and it was her who said it was up to me!

I am now stuck in limbo, still bleeding and crampy. I am all over the place and dont know what to do

 

[notready123]

Phone and complain. Say you are bleeding heavy and pain is making you feel faint. You are anxious about your baby aftet previous losses. Go on the hospitals website and find out who to complain to and do it. If you need tk cry to them then do so. Go hysterical just don't be angry.

Good luck xx

 

[LoveCakes]

I'd go to a&e. they should have a gynae doctor on call with access to scanners.

Or ring the epu and ask if you go today and wait how long it would be as it may just be scheduled appointments that are booked up until Thursday. Also ask to speak to the ward sister as soon as they answer. The nature of the epu is urgent care so they should be able to deal with it.

Good luck!

 

[Elephant13]

Speaking from my own previous experience sometimes I have not got very far with the epu. They basically told me that if I am miscarrying there isn't a lot they can do for me until it actually happens....I was then told that if the situation is really bad to go to a&e. The time before that I had an ectopic and went straight to a&e without even speaking to the epu. When I got to a&e they referred me straight to epu & scanned me straight away. My personal opinion is that if you are in pain and feel uneasy for peace of mind just got to a&e they cannot turn you away there & they will refer you straight away to the relevant place. Hope this helps & good luck xxx
Just another note a friend of mine had the exact same as you. She bled heavily & was in a lot of pain she went straight to a&e & they scanned her and the baby was in perfect health, they couldn't explain the pains or the bleeding but as the baby was fine they sent her home to rest up, sure enough it resolved itself within the week, positive thoughts to you x

 

[shirlls]

notready123, thanks x

LoveCakes, believe it or not they don't have any gynae on call with scanners here which is unbelievable. I can't go to epu and wait todayas not back until tomorrow . I feel so isolated and in limbo. I am stuck in the countryside and the hospital is 15 miles away, and don't have any gynaes on so it's all pretty useless.

 

[shirlls]

Speaking from my own previous experience sometimes I have not got very far with the epu. They basically told me that if I am miscarrying there isn't a lot they can do for me until it actually happens....I was then told that if the situation is really bad to go to a&e. The time before that I had an ectopic and went straight to a&e without even speaking to the epu. When I got to a&e they referred me straight to epu & scanned me straight away. My personal opinion is that if you are in pain and feel uneasy for peace of mind just got to a&e they cannot turn you away there & they will refer you straight away to the relevant place. Hope this helps & good luck xxx
Just another note a friend of mine had the exact same as you. She bled heavily & was in a lot of pain she went straight to a&e & they scanned her and the baby was in perfect health, they couldn't explain the pains or the bleeding but as the baby was fine they sent her home to rest up, sure enough it resolved itself within the week, positive thoughts to you x

Thanks, and I will definitely go to a&e and then they'l need to refer me to epu whether epu like it or not! . Last time I miscarried they didn't refer me, gave me their direct number for me to phone them. Ridiculous! Thanks for telling me about your friend, that sounds very promising X

 

[_jellybean_]

I'm sorry. Confused though...can you just go to the hospital?

 

[shirlls]

I'm sorry. Confused though...can you just go to the hospital?

I did and they don't have any gynecology or anyone who can scan me apparently? They can only refer me for a scan in the epu in Glasgow at start of next week. They couldn't get through so just gave me the direct number for them and that's when they told me I have to wait until next Thursday x

 

[Rainbow2103]

They tend to be like that at EPUs. Sounds like all you can do is hang tight until they can see you unless the situation worsens.

How far along are you?

FWIW I had a massive bleed, bright red, with clots with this pregnancy and everything was ok. FX for you xx

 

[shirlls]

They tend to be like that at EPUs. Sounds like all you can do is hang tight until they can see you unless the situation worsens.

How far along are you?

FWIW I had a massive bleed, bright red, with clots with this pregnancy and everything was ok. FX for you xx

I am 11 weeks. My losses in the past have been at 5 weeks so if it is a miscarriage about to happen I don't know what to expect and I am scared .

That is reassuring that you had that bleed and everything is ok. thanks for telling me about that.

x

 

[Elephant13]

11 weeks you are really close to the end of 1st tri. My oh cousin had pains and bled the whole way through her pregnancy & my sister pretty much the same. Each time it worsened and they thought the worst tests would come back fine. Try & stay calm as much as you can & I think for reassurance heading to an a&e department is the best thing. Epu's aren't always the most helpful on the phone & they must get lots of calls from women who phone over the tiniest thing, these things are whats important to us. For most of them its just a job & I guess if they showed sympathy for every person they wouldn't get work done. Not that I am defending them, I thought mine were rubbish at reassuring me on the phone. One even told me thta because i had 1 scan they wouldnt scan me again as they assume everything would be fine. I didn't want some one "assuming" I'm ok, I'd like to know for definite if I am or not! It made me feel silly for calling, it was ta that point my mum said to go to a&e because they have a duty there to deal with each and every person in their own way. They do not risk an unborn life when they are not medically trained in that field and so will refer you to the epu themselves.The only way for me was to go to a&e, they could not turn me away and had to look me over & double check everything, the a&e dept will just refer you up to them and like I said they have to treat you while you are there then. Keep us posted & good luck x

 

[Celesse]

So a bit blunt of me to start with, not aimed at you.......I think the EPAU attitude stems from the fact they only have a finite number of appointments, every patient is anxious, most present with the same symptoms of spotting/bleeding and there's very little treatment that can be done. So if you are spotting or bleeding, but don't need emergency care via A&E then all a scan is going to do is offer reassurance or confirm the worst. Having the scan sooner doesn't change the outcome. They can only have a certain number of scans and appointments per week and being pregnant and bleeding doesn't make you any more in need of a scan than the vast majority of their other patients who also are pregnant and bleeding. Think of it as all those other appointments between then and now are filled with women in exactly the same position as you are.

For some reason however the vast majority of EPAU nurses seem to have lost all tact in conveying this to women. Some areas are better at getting you in quicker than others, which I think shows which areas need to adjust their whole management of early pregnancy care. Its a bit of a postcode lottery, some areas you can always get an appointment next day, some areas (like yours) its longer.

I've spent a lot of time over the past 14 weeks in EPAU. I had a scan at 5+6 after mild spotting in 4+. Started bleeding at 6 weeks (day after the scan) but they completely refused to re-scan me until the prearranged scan at 7+4 even though the bleeding was new. I had 2 sacs, one of which was a blighted ovum, so I had a lot of questions and yet a lot of the time the answer was "well, if your going to miscarry there's nothing we can do about it". There's definitely some sensitivity training needed there.

Do you have any other EPAU's within reach, preferably one which accepts self referrals?

 

[shirlls]

11 weeks you are really close to the end of 1st tri. My oh cousin had pains and bled the whole way through her pregnancy & my sister pretty much the same. Each time it worsened and they thought the worst tests would come back fine. Try & stay calm as much as you can & I think for reassurance heading to an a&e department is the best thing. Epu's aren't always the most helpful on the phone & they must get lots of calls from women who phone over the tiniest thing, these things are whats important to us. For most of them its just a job & I guess if they showed sympathy for every person they wouldn't get work done. Not that I am defending them, I thought mine were rubbish at reassuring me on the phone. One even told me thta because i had 1 scan they wouldnt scan me again as they assume everything would be fine. I didn't want some one "assuming" I'm ok, I'd like to know for definite if I am or not! It made me feel silly for calling, it was ta that point my mum said to go to a&e because they have a duty there to deal with each and every person in their own way. They do not risk an unborn life when they are not medically trained in that field and so will refer you to the epu themselves.The only way for me was to go to a&e, they could not turn me away and had to look me over & double check everything, the a&e dept will just refer you up to them and like I said they have to treat you while you are there then. Keep us posted & good luck x

Thanks, I'll keep you posted x

 

[shirlls]

So a bit blunt of me to start with, not aimed at you.......I think the EPAU attitude stems from the fact they only have a finite number of appointments, every patient is anxious, most present with the same symptoms of spotting/bleeding and there's very little treatment that can be done. So if you are spotting or bleeding, but don't need emergency care via A&E then all a scan is going to do is offer reassurance or confirm the worst. Having the scan sooner doesn't change the outcome. They can only have a certain number of scans and appointments per week and being pregnant and bleeding doesn't make you any more in need of a scan than the vast majority of their other patients who also are pregnant and bleeding. Think of it as all those other appointments between then and now are filled with women in exactly the same position as you are.

For some reason however the vast majority of EPAU nurses seem to have lost all tact in conveying this to women. Some areas are better at getting you in quicker than others, which I think shows which areas need to adjust their whole management of early pregnancy care. Its a bit of a postcode lottery, some areas you can always get an appointment next day, some areas (like yours) its longer.

I've spent a lot of time over the past 14 weeks in EPAU. I had a scan at 5+6 after mild spotting in 4+. Started bleeding at 6 weeks (day after the scan) but they completely refused to re-scan me until the prearranged scan at 7+4 even though the bleeding was new. I had 2 sacs, one of which was a blighted ovum, so I had a lot of questions and yet a lot of the time the answer was "well, if your going to miscarry there's nothing we can do about it". There's definitely some sensitivity training needed there.

Do you have any other EPAU's within reach, preferably one which accepts self referrals?

I only have one other EPAU but they only accept people in set post codes and mine is out with that so I only have the one I can go to.

That must have been so stressful having to wait to be scanned again when you started bleeding. I completely get what you are saying about there being so many other women going through the same as me and phoning the epau, I guess it is hard to keep up sympathy for every single person who phones. However I do also agree that they could be a lot more sensitive and tactful at times x

 

[Celesse]

You could contact PAL...which I can't remember exactly what it stands for, but is the complaints people attached to the hospital. Its more of a long term complaining system, rather than a complaint now, get something sorted thing though.

Are you gonna head into A&E? Even if they can't scan you they can have a look to see if your cervix is dilating

 

[2have4kids]

If you haven't had bright red clotty heavy bleeding you should be fine. If you lie down bleeding & cramping will reduce. If you're meant to m/c you will and there's nothing a scan can do about it. Get yourself some FRER's and test every other morning to ensure your line stays consistent. In Canada scan's are quite costly and they won't generally do one unless you're having m/c-like bleeding. In the USA, you'd pay for it directly depending on your health insurance or if you even have insurance. Staying calm, lying down, warm pack on tummy and staying super hydrated are the best things to do right now.

 

[shirlls]

You could contact PAL...which I can't remember exactly what it stands for, but is the complaints people attached to the hospital. Its more of a long term complaining system, rather than a complaint now, get something sorted thing though.

Are you gonna head into A&E? Even if they can't scan you they can have a look to see if your cervix is dilating

Yep I am waiting on a lift at the moment and going to head to a&e. I'll update when I get back