Equal pay..how do I approach this?

[Abz1982]

Now, last year I didnt get a pay rise, they say it was performance based, yet had no issue that were not resolved (hey, I cant stop a colleague stealing MY work!! And doesnt help that she is not my manager.............).

But I have been given info that of the 2 new people they have hired they are on MORE than me........and Ive been there since 2007. One of these is male.

Do I have a right to ask to see what he is paid? And where does experience come into it? I've been off a total of 20 months for maternity leaves since my taking up the position, and I have been there through ALL the metamorphosis that the team has had - until this one, which was done literally the month or so after I went on leave - everyone else knew but me

We all have the same position - there are supposedly senior and normal roles, and HR confirmed that the only difference was experience - so by rights I should be a senior as I have been there 2 years longer than my manager (at the company, and in fact in any employment what so ever - I just have kids so cant work from 6am to 9pm...)

 

[BlaireUK]

Equal pay is a difficult one to prove. Are you in the UK? If you are in the public sector you can foi job role profiles and grades which is the best place to start. Most private companies are not bound by foi legislation and therefore don't need to release it.

If employee pay is linked to performance you need to understand your appraisal scoring and that of colleagues on the same grade which is difficult to get hold of without colleagues disclosing it. If someone is on more money than you then their annual appraisal should reflect a higher score. If they have a lower or equal score and still got a rise over you then that is discrimination regardless of their gender.

Length of service shouldn't come into it IMO and you shouldn't be on more that your manager (I assume they were recruited or promoted to this position?)

 

[Pearls18]

You won't be on more than your manager. Usually job roles have a set pay scales in correlation to the type of work and responsibility to the role e.g. £13,000-£15,000 and then a manager could be £15,000-£17,000 for example, if you have been there the longest you'll be closer to the £15,000 than the manager is to the £17,000 if that makes sense. You will work up the pay scale for your individual role until it is maxed out, it doesn't matter what others do. Those in superior positions, whether they do the same work or not as you in your opinion (but as they manage you that is more of a job role than you will have? They will be in charge of your admin, discipline etc?) will be on a higher pay scale regardless of how long after you they joined.

If someone has exactly the same job title as you, same role, same responsibilities and you believe they get paid higher then I guess you can question it, but once you have reached the top of your pay scale the only way you get pay rises normally is with inflation or if the company increases across the board, or you get promoted. I would have thought in 6 years you could well be the top of your pay scale.

(Edit: this is from my experience and not linked to performance pay, which might be useless for you lol, I don't work in a performance type of industry)

 

[Abz1982]

You won't be on more than your manager. Usually job roles have a set pay scales in correlation to the type of work and responsibility to the role e.g. £13,000-£15,000 and then a manager could be £15,000-£17,000 for example, if you have been there the longest you'll be closer to the £15,000 than the manager is to the £17,000 if that makes sense. You will work up the pay scale for your individual role until it is maxed out, it doesn't matter what others do. Those in superior positions, whether they do the same work or not as you in your opinion (but as they manage you that is more of a job role than you will have? They will be in charge of your admin, discipline etc?) will be on a higher pay scale regardless of how long after you they joined.

If someone has exactly the same job title as you, same role, same responsibilities and you believe they get paid higher then I guess you can question it, but once you have reached the top of your pay scale the only way you get pay rises normally is with inflation or if the company increases across the board, or you get promoted. I would have thought in 6 years you could well be the top of your pay scale.

(Edit: this is from my experience and not linked to performance pay, which might be useless for you lol, I don't work in a performance type of industry)

You would think wouldnt you...............but they dont like to give payrises if they can help it. last one was 2012 and was 1.2%.....And now it seems it is linked to appraisal rating...........which it seems I got a really bad one - but I was NEVER told of my appraisal score, it is like some big HR secret, even though you go through the while thing online with your manager and out of not accomplished, accomplished and more than satisfactory I never got one 'not' and about 2/4 were in the more than satisfactory part - so I plan to look it over when I go back, as I never received a copy of it after it was done, and its online and once I do my bit my manager can go back in and do other things.

If its turns out to be a bundle of shit when I go back, and I am given shit tasks to do - like ALL the paper work and no quotes or anything then I will go mental - but I will have to go to the colleague who was hoarding all the work, who is the now manager.............

I'm not fussed at folk knowing what I am paid. I'm on £10.20 an hour and will tell whom ever asks. So that's £21,216 if I was full time (40 hours) im doing 36, as having one afternoon with the kids to ease my concious.
When I started in 2007 I was on 17.5k, then they had a few good years and its gone up. Starting salary in 2011 was 19.5k, so if it does work out at £500 a year then its at about 20.5k base now, so Im only on £716 more...EVERY SINGLE othe rmember of that team that has been there for more than a year was on more than me. One was even made a senior - I wont be as I cannot stay on and do over time - I HAVE to pick kids up! No matter how good I am at my job, I will have commitments that mean I cannot give all the hour under the sun, and this is viewed as not being committed enough. The downside to the oil and gas industry


What irks me more is my sister, who has only worked in an office since 2007, and has not a single qualification to her name (she decided to leave school at 13) has a job that pays 32k. ..........I am definitely employed by the wrong company . Its very much who you know not what, or how much hot air you can blow up someone's ass..........and I refuse to do that. I know that sounds sour grapes, but my ex team leader got her first job because her dad got her in the door - she admits this - and she has networked based on who her dad is - much like Paris Hilton. My dad could have done this for me but has refused point blank to do it, and I can see why.

 

[My_First]

I do get what you are saying but most jobs nowadays are based on networkibg opportunities. On the last 10 years my oh has not got a new job by applying for one but through contacts. I can't remember the statistic but something like 70% or 90% of jobs are never advertised and 60% of people get jobs through people they know. Get on LinkedIn and network yiur arse off!

Also I had this whole thing about qualifications and a friend of mine. I went on to Uni and my friend left school at 18. She ended up in a better paid job than I for the first 10 years then I caught up and now I earn substantially more than her. The way I look at it is that she had a few years ahead of me on the work ladder. I know it's demoralising, maybe it's time for a change if you feel like thT about your employer?

 

[BlaireUK]

Frankly I don't think it should matter how qualified or not someone is for non traditional jobs (with exception of doctors, lawyers, dentists etc). I have hired people with less qualifications than others who have been more motivated, enthusiastic and approachable. As an employer those traits are very important to me, more so than a college degree for example (which are ten a penny these days).

If you are not happy in your job then you should speak to your manager as a first step. Find out what, if anything, they want you to do to progress or get more responsibility. If you still feel they aren't valuing you then go find something else. You sound like an articulate lady who has something to offer an employer.

 

[Abz1982]

Frankly I don't think it should matter how qualified or not someone is for non traditional jobs (with exception of doctors, lawyers, dentists etc). I have hired people with less qualifications than others who have been more motivated, enthusiastic and approachable. As an employer those traits are very important to me, more so than a college degree for example (which are ten a penny these days).

If you are not happy in your job then you should speak to your manager as a first step. Find out what, if anything, they want you to do to progress or get more responsibility. If you still feel they aren't valuing you then go find something else. You sound like an articulate lady who has something to offer an employer.

I think it makes me question why I should bother pushing myself or my children academically....

I do enjoy the job, in a way. Its been frustrating as I went back in 2010., there was a big change and then my supervisor left due to the team changing - I was then for 3 months SOLEY in charge for the orders and shipping etc of the orders here and in Cyprus plant and OTD went up to near 98% from the 70% band. But no recollection for that............... I wanted to go PT, so they hired someone to replace the supervisor, but it was going to be someone MY level or a senior - not another authority level as we now had a team leader as we took on another product line. I.e the team grew.
I was fine with this person being a senior, but it became obvious - and to be honest I was warned by more than a few folk! - that this person like to hoard work. My team leader was also told.............so of course when I went PT she took this advantage and and tried to take over, but I was PT so I tried my best to do what I could but she would just do my stuff when I was off. I was also basically deemed that as PT I wasn't committed enough to be involved in any decision making, or implementing new procedures or anything really. but I was still expected to do a full weeks worth of work in 3 days rather than 5.

One of the 'issues' on my appraisal was apparently quote turn around being too long, despite my Team leader and manager saying that they would have to learn to wait and they knew I only worked X days.............and the planning team would themselves take like 5+ days to get back to me.......it was ME that was penalised.
I have a number of issues I plan to raise when I get back and can review my last appraisal........I'm hoping it is better when I go back.

I spoke to a colleague today - one who is nice, new and also quite dopey enough to not know what not to tell me............looks like I am going to be the old fart going back now........I'm the oldest team member at 31! the other team in older, mine is now 20 somethings. but they have kids, so should not get the flack or having to work set hours.

I have looked for other jobs, but out of the 20 suitable I applied for in 2 months I heard nothing back and it was getting me down so I gave up. I can only work in a certain radius - for childcare etc, and jobs are few and far between at my level/salary. Its not high, but round here its more low level admin and agricultural jobs.

 

[LoveCakes]

To be honest I don't think you can go for equal pay if only 1 of the others is male, the female person is also being paid differently.

Also you say you have been given info but unless it's from payroll or the tax office you can't be sure of it. They may have gotten more a certain month due to overtime, different deductions (e.g. if they don't pay into a pension and you do). Could you get hold of the pay as advertised when the new people started. hr should have a copy.

In my profession if you are professionally registered you can get paid more regardless of experience and it may be that while they haven't been there as long they may have other experience such as management experience that the company values highly.

I'm not saying they're not being fair but to be able to take it up with your employer you need to have the facts. The same with the type of work you are given. If it is the case make a list of the work you have been given and co-workers for a clear comparison.

I understand it's frustrating that your career progression is limited by your family but as your said your kids are your priority.The company are entitled to make overtime a prerequisite of the job if this is what it takes on occasion to get the work done.

I realised that came out a bit harsh but it wasn't meant to be, just objective and to the point. Hopefully when you go back to work you can sort out any issues.