Gay marriage in catholic church

[Scottish mum]

Just been listening to the news and there had been a open debate in regards to gay couples being able to be married in a catholic church!

I have lots of great friends who are gay and a couple of which are soon to be wed! Should gay couples be able to get married in a catholic church?

Now I know my friends would not opt to be married in a catholic church as the catholic church doesn't support gay couples and to them anyway it would be a slap in the face and I agree with them!

What are your thoughts?

 

[gryphongrl]

I don't think there is any debate within the church, is there? The church is, and has always been, against gay marriage and will never allow it. No one can make any church do something that is against it's beliefs.

 

[Scottish mum]

Your right! They can't change what the church has believed in for centurys. But apparently it's something that the government is still debating!

 

[gryphongrl]

Really? That's crazy... there are other religions with FAR MORE upsetting beliefs, you'd think they'd start with those...

 

[Scottish mum]

I know did you ever see that documentary with that loui Theroux he went to stay with a horrible family in the states who's religion where basically anti everything but they would protest there beliefs in the street! People would go past and throw things at them but the worst thing of all is they had there young kids with them : (

 

[Button#]

I suppose the issue is if gay marriage becomes legal then the Catholic Church can be accused of discrimination, although from my understanding it already discriminates against divorced people (correct me if my info is out of date). I agree it seems odd that people would follow a faith that preaches against them.

 

[Noelle610]

I can't imagine any gay couple (that I know, at least) wanting to get married in the Catholic Church. It just doesn't make sense.

I grew up Catholic and have a lot of respect for the faith. I also have many gay friends and believe they should have the right to marry if they choose. But it does remain a fact that the Catholic Church remains very much against homosexuality in practice.

 

[Foogirl]

I suppose the issue is if gay marriage becomes legal then the Catholic Church can be accused of discrimination, although from my understanding it already discriminates against divorced people (correct me if my info is out of date). I agree it seems odd that people would follow a faith that preaches against them.

Ahh but no, the Bill, according to Theresa May, has a "quadruple lock" churches can "opt-in", they don't have to do this. The Catholic Church is specifically named as exempt and cannot opt in (although why this is necessary if all churches can choose to opt in or not??) No religious organisation can be taken to court for refusing and no individual can be taken to court for refusing. As far as I am aware, even this new Bill doesn't enforce a church to marry gay couples, it just says they can if they want to.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to be a member of a church who's core belief is that they are sinners, but the fact is, it does happen. There are also some individual priests who I know would be open to conducting a same sex marriage in the catholic church and it's quite sad that neither this bill, nor the head of the catholic church allows them to do this.

Personally, I've never really understood what the fuss was about. I stood in front of a registrar with my friends and family, and said "I do" to Mr Foo and we have a marriage. Mr Foo's brother did exactly the same with his male partner. As far as I'm concerned, they have a marriage too. They are both now my brothers in law and are Abby's Uncles. I didn't realise there was any different until the news told me there was to be a bill making it a marriage.

I haven't really looked in to it in much detail, but apart from the name, and the option of a church being allowed to do it (but not compelled to) are there any other differences? I mean, in law, is Mr Foo's brother's partner actually her Uncle? Is he actually my "Brother in Law?"

 

[Scottish mum]

I know to me a marriage is a marriage. I understand why the church won't marry same sex relationships as its against everything they believe but I'm all for same sex marriage and personally don't think anybody is a same sex relationship would want to marry in the church.

 

[overcomer79]

to me it shouldn't be debated! Here catholic organizations are being FORCED to provide birth control to their employees! That is against the Church's beliefs as well. My opinion: if you can't accept the beliefs of the Church fully, then you should not be going to that church. As with the employees, if you don't embrace what your organization teaches, then you might want to find a more relaxed place to work.

I don't think religious organizations should be forced to go against their morals and beliefs. That's my 2 cents. It's not that they are homophobes as some like to call us, it is just against our beliefs.

 

[CMarie]

I agree with Overcomer. You shouldn't have to force a religious institution into doing something against their beliefs

 

[steph.]

I think in an ideal world it should be allowed. I am catholic but i think the catholic church has some views which need updating like on contraception and gay relationships. I dont think it will be allowed any time soon, but surely if we are all created equal then we should all have the same rights. And if a gay couple want to get married in church then they should be able to.

 

[Button#]

I suppose the issue is if gay marriage becomes legal then the Catholic Church can be accused of discrimination, although from my understanding it already discriminates against divorced people (correct me if my info is out of date). I agree it seems odd that people would follow a faith that preaches against them.

Ahh but no, the Bill, according to Theresa May, has a "quadruple lock" churches can "opt-in", they don't have to do this. The Catholic Church is specifically named as exempt and cannot opt in (although why this is necessary if all churches can choose to opt in or not??) No religious organisation can be taken to court for refusing and no individual can be taken to court for refusing. As far as I am aware, even this new Bill doesn't enforce a church to marry gay couples, it just says they can if they want to.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to be a member of a church who's core belief is that they are sinners, but the fact is, it does happen. There are also some individual priests who I know would be open to conducting a same sex marriage in the catholic church and it's quite sad that neither this bill, nor the head of the catholic church allows them to do this.

Personally, I've never really understood what the fuss was about. I stood in front of a registrar with my friends and family, and said "I do" to Mr Foo and we have a marriage. Mr Foo's brother did exactly the same with his male partner. As far as I'm concerned, they have a marriage too. They are both now my brothers in law and are Abby's Uncles. I didn't realise there was any different until the news told me there was to be a bill making it a marriage.

I haven't really looked in to it in much detail, but apart from the name, and the option of a church being allowed to do it (but not compelled to) are there any other differences? I mean, in law, is Mr Foo's brother's partner actually her Uncle? Is he actually my "Brother in Law?"

Thanks Foo. I haven't really been following the debate. I'm not quite sure about the legal differences between a civil partnership and a civil marriage. I know the wording is different slightly in the ceremony but not sure if there are any differences in rights.

I suppose if you form a very strong attachment to your faith before you are aware of your sexuality it must be very upsetting to then be rejected by that faith.

 

[Dragonfly]

The catholic church maybe against gays but a lot of its followers arnt, gay and straight. I feel for catholic gay followers as they wont be accepted yet believe in God. To me I wouldn't follow a religion that treated any one like that as its against my beliefs, I believe it dosnt matter what your sexual orientation and wouldn't believe in something that had issues with it. I think its a fight for acceptance which they wont get. It must be a horrible feeling that, non acceptance. I see nothing wrong with gay marriage.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I am Catholic and yes I go to church and yes I pray every night. I guess in ways I am going against my religion or I am a hypocrite ? Cause I believe in gay marriage I believe in contraception also. I find nothing wrong with it, if two people love each other and want to be together I just don't care what gender they are, who is anyone to judge that? I think the church is wrong , but that doesn't change my faith.

 

[louandivy]

to me it shouldn't be debated! Here catholic organizations are being FORCED to provide birth control to their employees! That is against the Church's beliefs as well. My opinion: if you can't accept the beliefs of the Church fully, then you should not be going to that church. As with the employees, if you don't embrace what your organization teaches, then you might want to find a more relaxed place to work.

I don't think religious organizations should be forced to go against their morals and beliefs. That's my 2 cents. It's not that they are homophobes as some like to call us, it is just against our beliefs.

But I doubt most Catholics can follow the teachings of the bible without "sinning" somewhere along the way, why is homosexuality any worse than some of the other supposed sins? Homosexuality isn't a choice, and I am sure there are people out there who were raised religiously and do have a strong sense of faith while not being able to help their sexual orientation, why do they deserve the support of the Church any less than someone who uses contraception or masturbates? Plus there are Catholic modernists who believe that morality can evolve in context. There is no way anyone could live by all the rules of the Bible these days, I don't see how being progressive and accepting of others is the one old, outdated belief to focus on.

 

[overcomer79]

to me it shouldn't be debated! Here catholic organizations are being FORCED to provide birth control to their employees! That is against the Church's beliefs as well. My opinion: if you can't accept the beliefs of the Church fully, then you should not be going to that church. As with the employees, if you don't embrace what your organization teaches, then you might want to find a more relaxed place to work.

I don't think religious organizations should be forced to go against their morals and beliefs. That's my 2 cents. It's not that they are homophobes as some like to call us, it is just against our beliefs.

But I doubt most Catholics can follow the teachings of the bible without "sinning" somewhere along the way, why is homosexuality any worse than some of the other supposed sins? Homosexuality isn't a choice, and I am sure there are people out there who were raised religiously and do have a strong sense of faith while not being able to help their sexual orientation, why do they deserve the support of the Church any less than someone who uses contraception or masturbates? Plus there are Catholic modernists who believe that morality can evolve in context. There is no way anyone could live by all the rules of the Bible these days, I don't see how being progressive and accepting of others is the one old, outdated belief to focus on.

I'm not arguing my beliefs. That's all I'm saying. I live by my convictions and you live by yours. I just don't feel it right to force churches into going against their beliefs. But I'm also going to teach my kids that it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage. I think I'm just too old fashioned for this generation.

 

[Scottish mum]

That's not a bad think to be old fashioned! I would like my kids to do the same however I didn't lol! But I do think there are plenty other options for gay couples if they are thinking about marriage! X

 

[overcomer79]

That's not a bad think to be old fashioned! I would like my kids to do the same however I didn't lol! But I do think there are plenty other options for gay couples if they are thinking about marriage! X

You and I agree lol. I have been told that I'm raising my kids "counter-cultural" but that's just how I want to raise my kids.

 

[Dragonfly]

I was raised catholic and so where my whole family and never once did I hear being gay was wrong, not allowed or some sort of sin. I remember going to Amsterdam and seeing gay couples as a child and never flinched. My mum being a prude would gasp but she would do that at a straight couple to. But we where raised catholic to accept people as they are. What they done in their sex lives was their business. My children will be raised that way to. Not to hold prejudice against any one for not being married even as their parents arnt married. Sex, gender, race etc And they will go to a catholic school to learn there to. We also have gay members in our family both sides to and different religions.
We all raise our kids our way which is different from everyone's. not right or wrong just different.