Gay Marriage

I am roman catholic and I do love my religion and yes I do pray every single night, but that does NOT mean I agree with all my religion teaches. I believe if two people love each other and want to be together then let them, who cares if they are the same sex, I mean it is 2011 and the world is changing. I feel as if life is way to short to not be happy and to not let others be happy. I find nothing wrong with it and I know my religion says different and if I am going to hell I guess I will take my chances. I don't believe God sends people to hell for wanting to be happy, I believe as long as you are a good person in life and don't hurt anyone and live your life as a person who helps others respects human life and does the best they can then they are fine in my book....
JMO :flower::flower::flower::flower::flower::flower:
 
Sarahkka: There are a few issues in your argument. First, replacing "gay", "lesbian", and "homosexual" with "black", "hispanic", or "native" is not logical. When I say that homosexuality is a sin, I'm referring to specific acts that are a result of giving into temptation. Race is something that you are born with, and have no control over. It is not an action, thought, or desire. Scripture indicates that, in regards to race or social status, God views all people as the same. I would refer you to Acts 17:26 and Job 31:13-15. These are just a two examples, but I believe it is evident throughout Scripture.

Secondly, God's Word does not condone slavery, at least not in the modern sense of the word. When most people today think of slavery (including myself), we think of slavery in the modern sense of the word. We think of New-World/Western slavery, and Biblical slavery was nothing of the sort. In the Old Testament, slavery was primarily something that a person entered into voluntarily, but there were many laws regarding treatment of slaves to protect them. Even non-Jewish cultures had a different definition of slavery than what you'll find today. In the New Testament, slavery among Christians looked more like the Roman model of slavery, and Paul not only encouraged a respectful slave/master relationship, but also encouraged voluntary manumission of slaves.

The argument is very logical in that, just like racism, homophobia denies a group of people the same rights and freedoms as the rest of society based on their sexual preference. And I do argue with you that homosexuality is a choice or an action. I think sexual preference is part of the essence of a person's nature. To suggest that someone should repress such an important part of themselves and "choose" not to be gay is abhorrent.
Because what I think you are suggesting is that living that kind of lie is acceptable to your god, but open acknowledgement of love between two consenting adults is not? I have trouble reconciling that with the Christian message of tolerance and acceptance. :shrug:
The next part of your argument is trickier for me, as I am not a Christian and have nowhere near the knowledge of your version of the bible that you do, but I think this boils down to interpretation.
The following is meant to be a bit of humour, but does have a point - the bible tells us to do a whole lot of things that were probably pretty important 2000+ years ago, but are of questionable relevance today. Perhaps declaring an entire group of people as sinners and miscreants based on their sexual preference should be dropped the same way that "only wearing one fibre at a time" or "not planting two different crops in the same field" kind of biblical instruction has.
https://allthingsqueer.co.za/archives/religion/60.html

This is usually one of my questions for people who say that people who are gay have sinned & therefore are separated from God. Do you eat bacon? Do you eat prawns? Do you avoid wearing mixed fibre clothes??

All these are forbidden by God in the Bible but I bet very few Christians keep these rules - but then say that they can't pick & choose the parts of the Bible that they believe.

I'm a Christian, I work for a church and I support gay marriage.
 
Sarahkka: There are a few issues in your argument. First, replacing "gay", "lesbian", and "homosexual" with "black", "hispanic", or "native" is not logical. When I say that homosexuality is a sin, I'm referring to specific acts that are a result of giving into temptation. Race is something that you are born with, and have no control over. It is not an action, thought, or desire. Scripture indicates that, in regards to race or social status, God views all people as the same. I would refer you to Acts 17:26 and Job 31:13-15. These are just a two examples, but I believe it is evident throughout Scripture.

Secondly, God's Word does not condone slavery, at least not in the modern sense of the word. When most people today think of slavery (including myself), we think of slavery in the modern sense of the word. We think of New-World/Western slavery, and Biblical slavery was nothing of the sort. In the Old Testament, slavery was primarily something that a person entered into voluntarily, but there were many laws regarding treatment of slaves to protect them. Even non-Jewish cultures had a different definition of slavery than what you'll find today. In the New Testament, slavery among Christians looked more like the Roman model of slavery, and Paul not only encouraged a respectful slave/master relationship, but also encouraged voluntary manumission of slaves.

The argument is very logical in that, just like racism, homophobia denies a group of people the same rights and freedoms as the rest of society based on their sexual preference. And I do argue with you that homosexuality is a choice or an action. I think sexual preference is part of the essence of a person's nature. To suggest that someone should repress such an important part of themselves and "choose" not to be gay is abhorrent.
Because what I think you are suggesting is that living that kind of lie is acceptable to your god, but open acknowledgement of love between two consenting adults is not? I have trouble reconciling that with the Christian message of tolerance and acceptance. :shrug:
The next part of your argument is trickier for me, as I am not a Christian and have nowhere near the knowledge of your version of the bible that you do, but I think this boils down to interpretation.
The following is meant to be a bit of humour, but does have a point - the bible tells us to do a whole lot of things that were probably pretty important 2000+ years ago, but are of questionable relevance today. Perhaps declaring an entire group of people as sinners and miscreants based on their sexual preference should be dropped the same way that "only wearing one fibre at a time" or "not planting two different crops in the same field" kind of biblical instruction has.
https://allthingsqueer.co.za/archives/religion/60.html

This is usually one of my questions for people who say that people who are gay have sinned & therefore are separated from God. Do you eat bacon? Do you eat prawns? Do you avoid wearing mixed fibre clothes??

All these are forbidden by God in the Bible but I bet very few Christians keep these rules - but then say that they can't pick & choose the parts of the Bible that they believe.

I'm a Christian, I work for a church and I support gay marriage.

Have you read that "Letter to Dr. Laura" that I linked? It is freakin' hilarious. And I absolutely agree with you: that old "you can't pick and choose" defence is just another example of hypocrisy, another shameful excuse to use words written in an ancient time to justify bigotry and intolerance.
I remain unconvinced that there is a religious "excuse" to deny LGBT people their civil rights.
 
Although, as a fibre snob, I might be inclined to agree that cotton-poly blends just shouldn't be allowed! :haha:
 
Sorry folks that I haven't been very active in the debate in the last couple of days. Please don't think that I've just rolled over and given up, or am hiding away in cowardice or something lol. I fully intend to address the issues that were brought up following my last reply, but DH has been fairly adamant that we focus heavily on our online college coursework for the next couple of weeks. I will try to reply to this thread later this week.
 
That letter is amazing! Saves me going through the bible and finding all the strange laws as I attempted to do last time I got into this debate with someone.
On a more serious note I am bi and it makes me very sad that depending on the person I fall in love with I may not get to marry or have legal rights to children that I raise. This is based solely on whether or not I fall in love with someone who has a vagina too. Seems like a really dumb thing to completely base all those important things around.
 
Except that all those laws are from the Ceremonial Law in the Old Testament, which only applied to the people of Israel. Jesus ended the Ceremonial Law and it no longer applies to us in the gospel age.
 
^ yes I remember that from having this discussion with christian friends in the past. I honestly don't think this a debate as such in the same way one would debate other things, as the objections are based on people's faith, which overrides all else... nobody has joined the thread yet who has objections on grounds other than religion.
 
I totally believe that gay couples should have the same legal right as straight couples, and that they should be treated the same in every way where possible.

Apologies for my ignorance, but in the UK does a civil partnership give same sex couples the same legal rights as a church marriage? I'm from the UK and I don't even know this, shameful I know.

I don't, however, believe that same sex couples should be allowed to get married in a church, as it is contradictory to what the definition of marriage is and to the fundamental beliefs of Christianity. I am in no way saying that this is right or that I agree that homosexuality is a sin (I am not a practicing Christian and definitely don't think that it is a sin), but I also don't think that a religion should be forced to change it's beliefs. I disagree with a lot of religious beliefs from various religions, so therefore I choose not to follow those religions. I don't expect the religion to change to accommodate me, as much I may disagree with it's beliefs.

I hope this makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. As I said, I definitely think that gay unions should be treated the same legally as straight marriages and if this is the case in the UK then fantastic.
 
I can't honestly see why it's the business of anyone else who isn't one of the two people who want to be married? :shrug:

Love is love, regardless of gender. As for 'gay' marriage changing the definition of marriage - why does it matter what the old fashioned definition of it is? In my mind, everyone has their own version of marriage. I can't imagine my marriage is the same as the couple who live next door, or the ones down the street. As individuals we shouldn't be defined by a word.

As for the whole religious aspect of it, i'm pretty much agnostic so I don't understand a lot of it. What does confuse me (and intrigue me) is how people can go through their lives believing 100% in something there is no absolute proof of to the extent that they are willing to judge others for not sharing the same beliefs....? I find it comforting to hope that there's 'something after this life', but in the absence of ABSOLUTE proof that the bible, or some other such religion is complete fact, I will continue to live by what I consider to be good morals, and as far as I am concerned, that should be enough for any 'God' who claims to love all his children, without me having to repent for any perceived 'sin'...

And rant over.....lol
 
I can't honestly see why it's the business of anyone else who isn't one of the two people who want to be married? :shrug:

Love is love, regardless of gender. As for 'gay' marriage changing the definition of marriage - why does it matter what the old fashioned definition of it is? In my mind, everyone has their own version of marriage. I can't imagine my marriage is the same as the couple who live next door, or the ones down the street. As individuals we shouldn't be defined by a word.

As for the whole religious aspect of it, i'm pretty much agnostic so I don't understand a lot of it. What does confuse me (and intrigue me) is how people can go through their lives believing 100% in something there is no absolute proof of to the extent that they are willing to judge others for not sharing the same beliefs....? I find it comforting to hope that there's 'something after this life', but in the absence of ABSOLUTE proof that the bible, or some other such religion is complete fact, I will continue to live by what I consider to be good morals, and as far as I am concerned, that should be enough for any 'God' who claims to love all his children, without me having to repent for any perceived 'sin'...

And rant over.....lol

I agree with this.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” - Marcus Aurelius
 
I can't honestly see why it's the business of anyone else who isn't one of the two people who want to be married? :shrug:

Love is love, regardless of gender. As for 'gay' marriage changing the definition of marriage - why does it matter what the old fashioned definition of it is? In my mind, everyone has their own version of marriage. I can't imagine my marriage is the same as the couple who live next door, or the ones down the street. As individuals we shouldn't be defined by a word.

As for the whole religious aspect of it, i'm pretty much agnostic so I don't understand a lot of it. What does confuse me (and intrigue me) is how people can go through their lives believing 100% in something there is no absolute proof of to the extent that they are willing to judge others for not sharing the same beliefs....? I find it comforting to hope that there's 'something after this life', but in the absence of ABSOLUTE proof that the bible, or some other such religion is complete fact, I will continue to live by what I consider to be good morals, and as far as I am concerned, that should be enough for any 'God' who claims to love all his children, without me having to repent for any perceived 'sin'...

And rant over.....lol

I agree with this.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” - Marcus Aurelius

Thank you for this quote! I will remember this for the future :)
 
I can't honestly see why it's the business of anyone else who isn't one of the two people who want to be married? :shrug:

Love is love, regardless of gender. As for 'gay' marriage changing the definition of marriage - why does it matter what the old fashioned definition of it is? In my mind, everyone has their own version of marriage. I can't imagine my marriage is the same as the couple who live next door, or the ones down the street. As individuals we shouldn't be defined by a word.

As for the whole religious aspect of it, i'm pretty much agnostic so I don't understand a lot of it. What does confuse me (and intrigue me) is how people can go through their lives believing 100% in something there is no absolute proof of to the extent that they are willing to judge others for not sharing the same beliefs....? I find it comforting to hope that there's 'something after this life', but in the absence of ABSOLUTE proof that the bible, or some other such religion is complete fact, I will continue to live by what I consider to be good morals, and as far as I am concerned, that should be enough for any 'God' who claims to love all his children, without me having to repent for any perceived 'sin'...

And rant over.....lol

I agree with this.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” - Marcus Aurelius

Thank you for this quote! I will remember this for the future :)

I just found out that there's no evidence it was by Marcus Aurelius (and prob wasn't) but still a great quote anyway :)
 
To me homosexual or heterosexual, marriage is marriage. Love is love. My cousin is in a same sex relationship, and if she wishes to marry her partner I would stand behind her 100% They are so happy together and what more could I want for her?
 
I agree with MEREDITH, I understand what you mean by it... However, I am not fully practicing in my religion. So I would think that those that are, and are in a same-sex relationship would want to be married in a church.

I however, was married at a venue that we chose, and to the woman that I love. It is currently recognized, but until something changes with the lawmakers, it is always in jeopardy like those in California, to not be recognized. I totally don't undertand why we can't have the same rights. I am and forever will be a proponent for same-sex couples receiving the same rights as heterosexuals as Love is Love!
 

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