Gender selection?

[steph.]

Do you think it should be legal to be able to chose the sex of the baby through IVF?

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/p...ouples-using-ivf/story-fnet08ck-1226635204544

I was reading this article about people going to Thailand and paying $12,000 to be able to do this. In principle I think I am against it, but the more I think about it, the more I think maybe it should be legal with some restrictions, for example only available to couples who already have two children of the same gender. And if its expensive, only a couple who is really desperate for one particular sex would take this course. Also maybe it would decrease the rate of late abortions due to gender. The article mentions a female fetus being terminated at 20w because the parents wanted a boy (btw cant believe this is legal).

So what do you think? I think I´m still on the fence about it...

 

[kerrie24]

I don't think its fair to create embryos and then pick the sex you want and leave the rest to die.I believe there are some hereditary diseases that only affect boys for example so in that case it could be considered necessary,but not just because the parents are fussy.

 

[m_t_rose]

I don't agree with making the embryos then picking but I don't think there is anything wrong with sperm sorting to get the desired gender. It would also help certain areas like the area just down the river from where I have they don't have boys. Probably because it is very close to a chemical refinery but they just don't have boys there anymore it is like 5:1 for girls so sperm sorting could help there possibly

 

[zanDark]

I don't agree with making the embryos then picking but I don't think there is anything wrong with sperm sorting to get the desired gender. It would also help certain areas like the area just down the river from where I have they don't have boys. Probably because it is very close to a chemical refinery but they just don't have boys there anymore it is like 5:1 for girls so sperm sorting could help there possibly

I don't think it's possible to determine gender just from sperm...I think they can only do it by examining the embryo like they do when they rule out genetic diseases.

I'm completely against choosing gender. I think it's OK to check for diseases (like if both parents are carriers for cystic fibrosis or things like that) so you can have a healthy baby, but choosing gender just seems unethical to me. I understand that people have gender disappointment or prefer one sex over the other for cultural reasons, but it's something that you risk when you get pregnant and shouldn't be controlled by modern medicine. Same way people shouldn't use IVF to choose if they want their baby to have blue eyes or brown

All children are a blessing, and thankfully we have IVF for couples that can't conceive on their own, or couples who need it to have healthy babies...that shouldn't be abused and used to bring babies into the world with the characteristics that we want! Legalizing something like that worldwide would just restart the whole IVF is taboo theory.

ETA: the "it doesn't harm anybody" in the article just kills me. They are creating life and then just discarding of the embryos of the wrong sex because they're unwanted. Just terrible.

 

[lemongrass]

I'm against any sort of choosing characteristics of your baby. If you are so distraught over the possibility of having another boy that a dr says you should do this for your 'mental health' then you should reconsider having another child. All babies are little miracles and it is horrible to create life and then abort it because its not exactly what you want. Beggars can't (or shouldn't) be choosers IMO. I don't mean beggars as in ivf parents but as in ALL parents are lucky and should be grateful for the children they have.

 

[m_t_rose]

Actually sperm sorting is available it just isn't 100% effective

Very simply, the theory behind MicroSort is that if a woman gets pregnant with semen that contains mostly X sperm, she will most likely conceive a girl; or if she gets pregnant with semen that contains mostly Y sperm, she will most likely conceive a boy. MicroSort results have in fact proven this theory: the X:Y ratio in sperm directly corresponds to the odds of conceiving a girl or a boy. In the race to conception, the side with strength in numbers usually wins the day.

This is a very general idea of the MicroSort process. A semen sample is separated in the MicroSort sperm sorter using a technique called flow cytometry. An XSort results in mostly girl-producing X sperm, or a YSort results in mostly boy-producing Y sperm. The sorted sample is then used to get pregnant, either by artificial insemination (IUI) or in-vitro fertilization (IVF).
The sorting process isn't perfect. After an XSort, on average, 10% of the sorted sample will consist of unwanted Y sperm. After a YSort, on average, 24% of the sorted sample will consist of unwanted X sperm. This means that although your odds of having the desired gender have been drastically and reliably improved over nature, it is still possible to have an opposite. And although this is uncommon, yes, it does happen.

 

[bubbles123]

No, not unless it's to avoid genetic diseases. Nature provides a roughly 50/50% split and we should not mess with that, it could lead to an inbalance of genders.
If there are cultural issues or environmental issues favouring one sex over another these should be dealt with by education and cleaning up not sex selection.

 

[Piper84]

As above, not unless it's to avoid sex-specific genetic diseases.

There's an unchecked kind of sex selection going on in China and India at the moment and the result is a massive demographic disaster, with not enough women for the men. You couldn't guarantee that not happening if this was allowed on a large scale.

 

[steph.]

From what I understand from the article it is legal in the US for $25,000. I dont think enough people would be willing to pay this kind money to cause a gender inbalance in the community. And the US in general doesnt heavily favour one gender over the other like China, so i dont think that the women:men ratio would be messed up in most western countries.

I dont feel comfortable with embryos being discarded, but it happens with IVF. You could also say fertilised eggs are 'discarded' with IUDs or by taking the morning after pill, as they are allowed to be created but not allowed to implant. Yet these are all widely accepted, i dont see why doing the same for another purpose should make it a whole lot worse.

 

[Kate&Lucas]

It's something I just can't get my head around. Would these people, if they didn't get to choose the gender of their baby not want it if it turned out the other sex? I guess it'd save a lot of unwanted children on one hand. But I can't help thinking that these parents might not be emotionally mature enough to be having children.
It just makes me sad really. Babies are an absolute miracle and we're blessed when we have them - to go picking and choosing the bits you do/don't want just seems ludicrously selfish.

 

[zanDark]

Actually sperm sorting is available it just isn't 100% effective

Very simply, the theory behind MicroSort is that if a woman gets pregnant with semen that contains mostly X sperm, she will most likely conceive a girl; or if she gets pregnant with semen that contains mostly Y sperm, she will most likely conceive a boy. MicroSort results have in fact proven this theory: the X:Y ratio in sperm directly corresponds to the odds of conceiving a girl or a boy. In the race to conception, the side with strength in numbers usually wins the day.

This is a very general idea of the MicroSort process. A semen sample is separated in the MicroSort sperm sorter using a technique called flow cytometry. An XSort results in mostly girl-producing X sperm, or a YSort results in mostly boy-producing Y sperm. The sorted sample is then used to get pregnant, either by artificial insemination (IUI) or in-vitro fertilization (IVF).
The sorting process isn't perfect. After an XSort, on average, 10% of the sorted sample will consist of unwanted Y sperm. After a YSort, on average, 24% of the sorted sample will consist of unwanted X sperm. This means that although your odds of having the desired gender have been drastically and reliably improved over nature, it is still possible to have an opposite. And although this is uncommon, yes, it does happen.

This is very interesting! Thank you for taking the time to write it out and explain!

 

[Piper84]

From what I understand from the article it is legal in the US for $25,000. I dont think enough people would be willing to pay this kind money to cause a gender inbalance in the community. And the US in general doesnt heavily favour one gender over the other like China, so i dont think that the women:men ratio would be messed up in most western countries.

I dont feel comfortable with embryos being discarded, but it happens with IVF. You could also say fertilised eggs are 'discarded' with IUDs or by taking the morning after pill, as they are allowed to be created but not allowed to implant. Yet these are all widely accepted, i dont see why doing the same for another purpose should make it a whole lot worse.

I don't think it can be summed up as simply as saying "the US in general doesn't heavily favour one gender over the other". There just has to be a slight disparity for it to cause huge problems in future generations and there is no test case to prove anything about how many people would go for girls/boys.

Personally, I have serious reservations about playing around with things that aren't supposed to be played around with when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth. A baby is a human being and not a commodity to tailor to its parents' needs.

 

[PitaKat]

I'm against any sort of choosing characteristics of your baby. If you are so distraught over the possibility of having another boy that a dr says you should do this for your 'mental health' then you should reconsider having another child. All babies are little miracles and it is horrible to create life and then abort it because its not exactly what you want. Beggars can't (or shouldn't) be choosers IMO. I don't mean beggars as in ivf parents but as in ALL parents are lucky and should be grateful for the children they have.

I agree

 

[Foogirl]

Only if I was known to be carrying a defective gene which could pass something on to a particular sex.

 

[Sarahkka]

As above, not unless it's to avoid sex-specific genetic diseases.

There's an unchecked kind of sex selection going on in China and India at the moment and the result is a massive demographic disaster, with not enough women for the men. You couldn't guarantee that not happening if this was allowed on a large scale.

This was exactly my first thought! Gender selection hasn't worked out very well in any of the real life examples I can think of. I would support genetic screening for disease, but when we start to select gender, I think we are on a slippery slope to, "and while you are at it, I would like baby to have blue eyes, blonde hair, this body type, etc". Just because we CAN do it, doesn't mean we SHOULD.

 

[Foogirl]

The article mentions a female fetus being terminated at 20w because the parents wanted a boy (btw cant believe this is legal).

This is one of the problems with the law written in the way it is. It isn't actually legal to perform a termination for that reason. If you went to your doctor and simply said "it's a boy, I want a girl". a doctor could be struck off for sanctioning it. As with all terminations, continuing with them has to result in mental, emotional or physical distress for the mother or the baby. However, it's not too difficult to have this "proven" on paper, given the right involvement of the right people. Often terminations are carried out which go against the spirit of the law.

Many health boards in the UK refuse to tell you the sex of the baby at your 20 week scan. Ours doesn't. They are well aware of some cultural issues in the UK where a first born boy is very important. I'm kind of in two minds about that. Although I abhor the thought of anyone making this choice at 20 weeks, if that choice isn't available to them safely, what happens then? Do we end up with a situation as is seen in China where girl babies are killed at birth or abandoned?

 

[Rhio92]

I'm going to say something which may make me sound awful... But I know I would be gutted if I don't manage to have a daughter one day. It's always been my dream to have at least one of each.
However, I know I'd love my Children whatever their gender. I do t believe in gender selection. We need a balance of men and women to keep the population going. It's not right to mess with it.
Does anyone know why the chance of having a boy is slightly higher than a girl btw?

 

[Sarahkka]

Rhio, it would depend on your personal chemistry, but the basics are:
male sperm are more fragile, but faster, than the hardier, slower female eggs. If you have sex right at ovulation and your vaginal pH is "normal", those circumstances favour male sperm. If you have sex a couple of days previous to ovulation or if your vaginal pH is somewhat lower or higher due to factors like stress, those cicumstances might kill off more male sperm and select in favour of the female.
It is more complicated than that, but those are the basics as I have always understood them.
And Rhio, it doesn't make you sound awful. It makes you an honest person. Gender disappointment is a very real phenomenon. There is a restricted access support forum on here for it. People suffering from it are often made to feel like they are horrible, ungrateful people, which isn't helpful or fair. And to be clear: gender disappointment is very different from cultural or social discrimination of one gender or another.

 

[sandilion]

If the family have actual medical reasons for selecting the gender - for example illnesses which are gender orientated that can be inherited etc (if there is a such thing, I really have no idea) then id say yeah for that sort of reason it should be legal. But for families wanting to just be choosy? Nope. I believe all babies are a blessing and we should be happy with what we get. Sure id love a little girl next, but if i have another son I will be over the moon as i already have an amazing little boy - another one would complete me just as much.

I am horrified to read people terminating pregnancies due to gender disappointment. Im sorry, but those people shouldn't be allowed to breed. How horrific. How on earth a person can sleep well at night knowing they killed their baby all because of the gender. A perfectly healthy baby girl. That makes me angry hearing about that, and emotional.

I'm sorry to sound heated, but reading that really effected me. I just don't get people like that.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I had/have gender disappointment but still believe it is wrong to select an embryo based on gender for that reason alone.