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[seaweed eater]

No, SNS = supplemental nursing system. The LC said to give milk by teaspoon instead of bottle because that reduces the chances of LO developing nipple preference. SNS serves the same purpose plus it also rewards LO for being at the breast. It's a small tube that attaches to a syringe with formula/EBM at one end and you tape near your nipple at the other end. Then you dispense the formula slowly as LO nurses (or if LO is strong enough to latch on the tube, he could suck it out himself).

If his diapers are normal and he is gaining weight then I think there is an argument to be made for waiting longer before admitting him to the hospital. But of course you should follow your doctors' advice.

 

[sun]

Hi there,

I was wondering if I could get some help. I have just about run out of things to try with my LO.. he won't stay latched and I'm so frustrated and I don't understand why. I had a lactation consultant here today and of course everything was lovely - he was full of expressed milk and formula! Now he fusses and won't try to BF regardless of how I told him or whatever.

I already hate that I have to give him formula, but I'm not producing enough yet to satisfy him and he needs to get back to his birth weight soon or they will hospitalize him.

If anyone can help I would really really appreciate it.. I don't want to give up on breastfeeding one week in.

Sorry, edited to add details:
- he was born 9lbs 1oz but didn't feed well to begin with. The midwives think he was full of mucous and he did cough up a fair amount and have a lot of really big poops, after which he had more interest in feeding
- improper latch resulted in very damaged nipples, which led to expressing and bottle feeding. Now I think he likes the faster flow of the bottle and won't tolerate the breast, even though my nipples are healing
- he lost a lot of weight (back up to 8lbs 1/2 oz) but has to keep gaining. I worry that all the fussing and crying is costing him more calories than he's getting out of BFing

My first had many issues with BF (poor latch, not able to suck/swallow for more than a few seconds at a time due to hypotonia and being a preemie, low blood sugar, etc). We also used a SNS initially and also cup fed (similar idea to feeding from a spoon but I find it easier to use the miniature plastic cup). Also I make the minimum amount of milk and it is easily affected by my not eating or drinking enough or my weight going to low. I didn't know this with my first and it was a long struggle to get my supply really going. So I would use expressed milk with the SNS (not formula), since every feed that is supplemented with formula is one your body doesn't think the baby needs - and this just causes more of a problem with supply/demand. Your body never catches up because it doesn't realize more milk is required! So if I had to give a feed via cup or SNS I always used my own milk. I also put him on my breast as often as humanly possible - I spent several days doing nothing but lying with him and nursing. This helped my supply and his ability to feed. Hugs and I hope it improves soon. I find after 3-4 weeks BF really takes off and it becomes much much easier.

I also agree that if his diapers are good and he is gaining then that is excellent.

 

[Glitter_berry]

GREAT THREAD!!

Wish I had found it before switching my son to formula

 

[Annahilditch]

Hi I'm FTM just need some help with breastfeeding struggling a little bit. Conflicting advice from Midwives so not really sure what to do one of them said to feed on demand which I have been doing but she cluster feeds at night wanting a feed sometimes every half hour. My husband works nights so I've grown to dread nights. She's better in the day. Today she went for four hours without a feed. The other midwife told me to only feed her every 3-4 hours to get her into routine but she's only 16 days old. She also spits up a lot. So I have to sit with her for ages before putting her down and she still tends to spit up in Moses basket. Midwife said it's just posset but I worry cause it's after every feed. It does just look like milk and she doesn't strain so I don't think it's vomit. I'm starting to really struggle and I know it's just a phase but I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel and that makes me feel like the most horrific mum in world

 

[Lownthwaite]

Hi I'm FTM just need some help with breastfeeding struggling a little bit. Conflicting advice from Midwives so not really sure what to do one of them said to feed on demand which I have been doing but she cluster feeds at night wanting a feed sometimes every half hour. My husband works nights so I've grown to dread nights. She's better in the day. Today she went for four hours without a feed. The other midwife told me to only feed her every 3-4 hours to get her into routine but she's only 16 days old. She also spits up a lot. So I have to sit with her for ages before putting her down and she still tends to spit up in Moses basket. Midwife said it's just posset but I worry cause it's after every feed. It does just look like milk and she doesn't strain so I don't think it's vomit. I'm starting to really struggle and I know it's just a phase but I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel and that makes me feel like the most horrific mum in world

You're certainly not an horrific mum!

I would forget about the routine - don't let yourself be restricted and stressed by times and schedules. Feed purely on demand.

It really doesn't last forever. The most important thing right now (unless you have other children obviously) is to establish your feeding. When baby wants to feed frequently try to recognise this as normal and take to the sofa with a drink, some snacks and your favorite film.

 

[thayet]

An update for you lovely ladies!

The LC came back today and I managed to time it so LO was starving when she got here. She brought a SNS with her, we used it ONE TIME and he was off to the races He nursed for almost an hour (with the shield after the expressed BM ran out) and he conked out and slept for almost four hours afterwards. After he woke up, I was apprehensive, but we gave it a shot and he nursed for an hour and put himself to sleep!

I never, ever thought this would be possible - my supply is already increasing and I feel so relieved. Thank you for the encouragement and support - the last two days have been pretty challenging.

 

[Annahilditch]

Thank you for reply! It's do hard knowing if your doing things right. We are having a bad night only managed 2hrs sleep so far! We came to bed at 8! I was wondering if I could have a BF champion I'm
Really struggling

 

[Blackrain90]

Hey ladies, need a little advice/support. My son is 6 1/2 weeks, have been doing both breast feeding and EBM since beginning because he spent the first couple weeks in hospital. For the most part he has been feeding well, but this past week he has been terrible. I originally thought it was just part of a growth spurt, but it isn't getting better.

When he is hungry, I put him to breast, and he will generally feed for a few minutes. He then starts going on and off a lot (despite obviously getting milk) which happened during last spurt, but now he gets to the point where he is too frustrated and won't even take the nipple. I have tried calming him and trying on other side, but he usually refuses it, or tries once and freaks out.

I know you shouldn't supplement during a growth spurt, but it was to the point he would have been starving otherwise. I have started trying to pump if he doesn't feed/feed well, but I left it for a while and I'm thinking my supply might have suffered (and can't always do because of him fussing). I used to be able to pump 40-50ml per side every 3 hours; he is feeding every 2 now, but when I pump that frequently I only get about 20-30ml per side.

I don't know if this is a common issue with growth spurts (refusing to take the breast; I know being fussy at the breast is) but it is wearing on my nerves, almost putting me to the point of wanting to give up. For some reason, he doesn't really do this during night feedings, but he also doesn't feed as long those times before he falls back asleep.

Any advice about how to get through this would be great!!

 

[seaweed eater]

Blackrain reduced supply seems like a possibility, but is it possible that you have oversupply or overactive letdown? Before I read the part about how your pumping output has decreased, that was the first thing that came to my mind. Does it seem like he's having trouble coping with the flow? Does he have green watery/foamy stools by any chance?

If it is low supply, then emptying at least every 2 hours (ideally via nursing or if necessary via pumping) will help a lot at this point. But of course if it's oversupply then that will just make things worse, so I wanted to make sure.

How are you giving the EBM? Via bottle? Is nipple preference a possibility? I would try SNS if you are not doing so already. If you think you are having difficulty letting down, then I would express for a minute or two before latching him on to elicit a letdown, but you said he is fussy despite getting milk so I'm thinking that's not the problem.

 

[Blackrain90]

His stools really vary, they are generally like curds or kind of like pea soup. Have not yet tried SNS, not sure what it does exactly/benefits?

He used to act like he was having trouble with the flow, but it seemed to have resolved itself a few weeks back.
I don't know that nipple preference would be the issue, just because he has taken both bottle and breast from day 1.

It seems like (at least on the right side) I have a really quick letdown as he will suck-swallow constantly, but he usually doesn't choke or anything, and when it does slow down a bit, he will suck a few times, swallow then fuss (as if he doesn't like it or something).

 

[Girly922]

I need some advice please ladies. DD is nearly 5 weeks old and we've been doing really well with BF and the occasional bottle of EBM but she's started tugging at my nipples. I'm so sore!! We've seen the health visitor and the BF team, her latch is perfect. But part way through a feed she will clamp down and pull away. She does this maybe 3 times a feed. It's agony, and now I can't even get her to latch without being in huge amounts of pain. The HV told me to try hold her head into me when she does this, but I don't get any warning that she's about to and I can't hold her head into my boob the whole feed. The poor girl wouldn't be able to breathe!

It's got to the point where I'm continually sore. I was feeding through the pain, but its unbearable. Lanolin cream isn't giving me any relief. My nipples aren't cracked or bleeding, I'm more concerned that its tissue damage from the trauma.

I've started exclusively pumping (only since last night) to try and give myself time to heal, and although that's a LOT less painful, its still uncomfortable. Pumping has never been uncomfortable before. I tried BF during the night to see if a different hold would help but I was in agony throughout the feed

She doesn't have any problems taking from the bottle, but its almost like my flow is too fast for her. She often chokes on the breast so I'm wondering if her pulling away is where its getting a bit quick for her?

I don't know what else to try. I'm going to pick up some nipple shields today in case that just helps give me some relief. The HV checked DD for tongue tie and for thrush but there's no obvious problem. She's gaining weight so well, gained 13oz in 9 days and is now 9lb 11, so I don't want to just give up and switch to formula.

 

[seaweed eater]

Blackrain, I believe nipple preference can develop at any time if baby is taking a bottle regularly. LCs told me it was one possible reason mine stopped nursing at 11 months after taking both bottle and breast since he was 1 month old. SNS is helpful for nipple preference because it is not an artificial nipple and rewards feeding at the breast.

Have you changed your diet at all? His diapers sound fine but perhaps he just doesn't like the taste of something?

Girly, it definitely sounds like overactive letdown. Clamping and pulling away can definitely be a reaction to that. She is trying to stop the flow. Careful with pumping since you don't want to remove too much milk and make things worse. I would try block feeding to reduce your supply a bit. You could also express for just a few moments before putting her on in case that helps get through the fast initial part of the letdown.

 

[Girly922]

Thanks. I was previously block feeding and recently stopped to try and build my supply back up on my right side so will try going back to block feeding. Currently using nipple shields just to help with the pain but they're also helping to slow the flow and we seem to be getting somewhere.

 

[Blackrain90]

I have changed my diet recently to cut out dairy as he has a CMPI but not eating anything new. The weird thing is that he feeds fine during the night. And he normally latches fine at the beginning and gets milk as I have a strong letdown on the one side, so I don't know if SNS would help, as he gets plenty of milk if he sucks even a little-half the time it pours into his mouth without sucking anyways, but he doesn't seem to be choking; it's usually part way through the feeding that he screams and fusses, even if he is still obviously swallowing milk. It's like he gets bored and frustrated.

 

[seaweed eater]

Maybe try BF in a dark and quiet place if you aren't doing so already? 6 weeks is a little young to start getting distracted, but it could happen -- for mine it was a problem from about 8 weeks. You could also try using a cover even at home if you're comfortable with one -- for some distractible babies it works well, but for others it is a disaster.

 

[PreggyEggy]

I have changed my diet recently to cut out dairy as he has a CMPI but not eating anything new. The weird thing is that he feeds fine during the night. And he normally latches fine at the beginning and gets milk as I have a strong letdown on the one side, so I don't know if SNS would help, as he gets plenty of milk if he sucks even a little-half the time it pours into his mouth without sucking anyways, but he doesn't seem to be choking; it's usually part way through the feeding that he screams and fusses, even if he is still obviously swallowing milk. It's like he gets bored and frustrated.

Hi Blackrain!

[EDIT: Whoops I think I got my wires crossed when reading posts because I originally thought you were supplementing with formula and gave advice relating to formula and allergy, very sorry!]

This page might be helpful regarding his CMPI:
https://kellymom.com/health/baby-health/food-sensitivity/

One thing that might be affecting him is if dairy is still slipping into your diet somewhere. It's in absolutely everything! I really feel for you because it's hard to avoid. Perhaps an idea would be to keep a food diary, and you can go back and see what you've had when he's doing this and whether there is any hidden dairy.

Alternatively, does he show any symptoms of reflux? He could be having acid come up midway through a feed, and that's why he's pulling off, especially if he's arching his back when he does it.

To be honest though, you might never find a reason as to why he's starting doing this. I often found myself going through these periods of fussiness with my first baby, and would drive myself mad trying to pick apart the reasons she could be having problems and what I could do about it. In the end, those periods always passed and she'd go back to normal. It's so tough to deal with though.

I hope it's ok I just jumped in and offered advice! I don't feel like I have the time to offer to be a champion right now, but I feel like giving advice here could be helpful, if that's ok.

 

[Lownthwaite]

Hi ladies,

I'm so sorry it's been a while since I've posted. I've been having some health issues since the birth of my little boy but I promise to try to get on here more often.

How are you all getting on with feeding? Anybody need any support?

 

[claudinator]

Imy little boy is four days old, my milks just came in and ever since he feeds for an hour about 30mins each boob, he gets really sleepy and stays sleepy for 3hours is this normal? Is he ok? He was really fussy before my milk came in now he sleeps allot he got the heel test this morning and nurse said all is well I'm a FTM and worried he's not ok.

 

[RaspberryK]

Imy little boy is four days old, my milks just came in and ever since he feeds for an hour about 30mins each boob, he gets really sleepy and stays sleepy for 3hours is this normal? Is he ok? He was really fussy before my milk came in now he sleeps allot he got the heel test this morning and nurse said all is well I'm a FTM and worried he's not ok.

He's got a lovely full tummy now, yes it's fine, he's fine. Don't worry.
They are fussy at first when they are only getting a tiny amount of colostrum.
Just go with him and you'll do great! Xx

 

[Lownthwaite]

Imy little boy is four days old, my milks just came in and ever since he feeds for an hour about 30mins each boob, he gets really sleepy and stays sleepy for 3hours is this normal? Is he ok? He was really fussy before my milk came in now he sleeps allot he got the heel test this morning and nurse said all is well I'm a FTM and worried he's not ok.

As Raspberry said - I'm sure he's fine.

Breastmilk acts like a natural sedative - hence baby very often falls asleep at the breast. I should imagine it's also where the term "milk drunk" came from.

If you're ever concerned then do seek medical help; for peace of mind if anything, but I'm sure baby is just sleeping off his full tummy.