Guidelines changing??

[petal040]

I don't get it - I am now totally confused. I've read mention of the guidelines changing to be that you should start weaning any time after 17 weeks.

Why is this? Is it for health reasons?

I want to do blw - am really not keen on babyrice and purees - but if for health reasons I should start weaning now then is blw unsafe because it's too early for that?

My LO has been reaching out for everything she can, putting it in her mouth and chewing for ages. She has been waking again during the night for around a week. She can nearly sit unaided (she topples after five seconds or so, but her back looks okay, she's not crumpled). She doesn't have pincer grip at all though.

Should I be giving her food? I don't want to be cruel to her and withold food if she needs it or is hungry? She is a very happy baby and doesn't seem to be suffering without it... but the change in guidelines has confused me! Can I start giving her bits of fruit and veg to play with or something? Agh!

 

[Lucy_lu_84]

havent heard these new guidelines

but if i were you i would wait.

Babies go through a MASSIVE growth spurt at 4 months so this would explain the waking again for feeds in the night. We had 2 hours feeds during ours... but we survived! Just!! Lol

Also the reaching for things isn't an indication they are ready for solids, they are just learning and generally interested in everything we do!

If you wanna wait, wait. you know you baby better than any one!

We do BLW and we started just before 5 and a half months, but i'd not have done it any early!

 

[petal040]

Thanks... I did a search on Google and couldn't find any info about the change... but it is mentioned in this thread...

https://www.babyandbump.com/weaning-nutrition/254166-hv-advice.html

Apparently the guidance is changing in April? If there is good reason to wean earlier than 6 months - why wait until April to pass the message on?

I want to do what's best for my LO and now I'm not sure what that is... I'm going to wait though until I find more info, like the reasons for this change... ?

*edited to add - how long did your 4 month growth spurt last for, out of curiosity? She slept through again last night so I'm hoping it might be over but am I being too optimistic?

 

[amylw1]

my HV said its changing in april to "between 17 and 20 weeks". i didnt ask why.

the way i see it IF your baby is happy with just milk even if older than the reccomended age for weaning leave them on just milk until they want more. and on the same line if baby is hungry give it the food even if younger than the reccomended age.


blake has baby food as he is very hungry - he is taking 8x8oz bottles in 24hrs but he cant have hungrier milk as he on soya. he has had 1 meal a day for nearly 3weeks as well as the above bottles!

 

[freckleonear]

The World Health Organisation's (WHO) recommendation is (and will remain until medical evidence shows otherwise) 6 months. Although nothing official has been stated about the UK guidelines being changed, the rumours are based on a legal issue to do with labelling.

The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) recently concluded that there is no risk to weaning 4 month old babies with cereal-based foods. The reason for the review was an inconsistency in EU legislation. EU laws say "the stated age shall not be less than four months for any product" and that follow-on formula must be labelled "suitable only for infants over the age of six months", whereas the Codex Standard (based on the WHO recommendations) stated that "The label shall indicate clearly from which age the product is recommended for use. This age shall not be less than 6 months for any product."

Basically if the guidelines are changed it will because of food manufacturers clarifying their legal position to label food as suitable from 4 months. The WHO recommendations, based on proper systematic reviews over many years, will remain at 6 months.

 

[petal040]

Ah okay... so the WHO recommendations are still 6 months and are not changing?

It seems misleading of Health Visitors to advise that the recommendation is changing to be that you should start 'between 17 and 20 weeks' - which to me sounds like you should have started by 20 weeks at the latest - because it seems as though they would only say that if there were health reasons to do so - not because baby jar companies want to be able to advertise their products to parents of children younger than the recommended age for weaning, against all the evidence of what's best for health (of most babies - I know there are exceptions but that should be for parents and health professionals to decide, without being influenced by advertising imo).

 

[Lisa1302]

There are reasons for the WHO stating 6 months though which do not really apply all over the world - we have to remember the WHO is UN wide and is for some countries who don't even have clean running water let alone a stove to heat food on

One of the reasons that they recommend exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months because in those countries it can sometimes be the only sterile food available to a mother! It also used stats like 60% of the 11 million infant deaths under 5yrs were caused by malnutrition, two thirds of these being due to bad practice in the first few months - this simply does not apply in the UK.

The UK's stand on the 6 month guide was based on the WHO recommendation - which is based on a worldwide study

Only 3 years ago the guidelines given out to UK mothers was that babies were able to be weaned from 17 weeks - it has only been these last 3 years that mothers have been advised to wean at 6 months...even though I am sure the guidelines were chnaged officilally before this, I know for a fact my friends who had babies as late as 3 yrs ago were told 17 wks.

Studies have shown that the babies gut is sealed and ready for solids some time between 17 weeks and 26 weeks - therefore a baby should not be given solids until they show all the signs of being ready (not just hunger/waking) ...but because all babies develop at different rates some will be ready before 26 weeks.

One thing I read on this topic was that as well as the 6 mth guideline - the WHO also at some point recommended that mothers who had to return to work should be given day care facilities & paid breaks for breast feeding ...funny how the UK choose which bits of the recommendations to band about...the 'easy' bits!

 

[saraendepity]

There are reasons for the WHO stating 6 months though which do not really apply all over the world - we have to remember the WHO is UN wide and is for some countries who don't even have clean running water let alone a stove to heat food on

One of the reasons that they recommend exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months because in those countries it can sometimes be the only sterile food available to a mother! It also used stats like 60% of the 11 million infant deaths under 5yrs were caused by malnutrition, two thirds of these being due to bad practice in the first few months - this simply does not apply in the UK.

The UK's stand on the 6 month guide was based on the WHO recommendation - which is based on a worldwide study

Only 3 years ago the guidelines given out to UK mothers was that babies were able to be weaned from 17 weeks - it has only been these last 3 years that mothers have been advised to wean at 6 months...even though I am sure the guidelines were chnaged officilally before this, I know for a fact my friends who had babies as late as 3 yrs ago were told 17 wks.

Studies have shown that the babies gut is sealed and ready for solids some time between 17 weeks and 26 weeks - therefore a baby should not be given solids until they show all the signs of being ready (not just hunger/waking) ...but because all babies develop at different rates some will be ready before 26 weeks.

One thing I read on this topic was that as well as the 6 mth guideline - the WHO also at some point recommended that mothers who had to return to work should be given day care facilities & paid breaks for breast feeding ...funny how the UK choose which bits of the recommendations to band about...the 'easy' bits!

yeah i thought i had read that too.......really takes the pee doesnt it

 

[Lisa1302]

There are reasons for the WHO stating 6 months though which do not really apply all over the world - we have to remember the WHO is UN wide and is for some countries who don't even have clean running water let alone a stove to heat food on

One of the reasons that they recommend exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months because in those countries it can sometimes be the only sterile food available to a mother! It also used stats like 60% of the 11 million infant deaths under 5yrs were caused by malnutrition, two thirds of these being due to bad practice in the first few months - this simply does not apply in the UK.

The UK's stand on the 6 month guide was based on the WHO recommendation - which is based on a worldwide study

Only 3 years ago the guidelines given out to UK mothers was that babies were able to be weaned from 17 weeks - it has only been these last 3 years that mothers have been advised to wean at 6 months...even though I am sure the guidelines were chnaged officilally before this, I know for a fact my friends who had babies as late as 3 yrs ago were told 17 wks.

Studies have shown that the babies gut is sealed and ready for solids some time between 17 weeks and 26 weeks - therefore a baby should not be given solids until they show all the signs of being ready (not just hunger/waking) ...but because all babies develop at different rates some will be ready before 26 weeks.

One thing I read on this topic was that as well as the 6 mth guideline - the WHO also at some point recommended that mothers who had to return to work should be given day care facilities & paid breaks for breast feeding ...funny how the UK choose which bits of the recommendations to band about...the 'easy' bits!

yeah i thought i had read that too.......really takes the pee doesnt it

it does! the UK always seems to pick the guidelines it feels are easy to introduce...but can't be bothered to do anything to make it easier for those it expects to follow the guidelines...because that would probably cost money and time!

 

[petal040]

I thought the 3 and then 4 month guideline was introduced because of poorer quality formula causing health problems (and mum's didn't have the option of switching to bf because their milk had gone by then?) so it was to get the babies off the formula?

I also thought that before formula arrived, babies were usually not weaned until somewhere between 9 and 12 months - is this wrong then? Or was that because of things like poor water quality etc?

I would love to start weaning! But I don't want to if she's not ready - at the same time I don't want to not wean if she is ready!

How do you know if LO is 'hungry' for solids if the only hunger she knows is hunger for milk?

 

[jojo2605]

I would love to start weaning! But I don't want to if she's not ready - at the same time I don't want to not wean if she is ready!

How do you know if LO is 'hungry' for solids if the only hunger she knows is hunger for milk?

I'm the same, want to do it when its right but now the guidelines of when's right are becoming blurred! I know we have to do what's right for our own babies, but its not that easy is it?!

 

[amylw1]

How do you know if LO is 'hungry' for solids if the only hunger she knows is hunger for milk?

it is hard but you can work it by the amount of bottles baby has in 24hrs and how many oz they have. i was told if they start taking bottles more frequently than b4 to keep note of it. the formua tins say at 4months they should have 5x 7oz bottles in 24hrs. anymore than this indicates hungry baby and you should speak to health professional for advice re: hungry milk. IF baby is on soya milk there is no hungrier milk option, therefore you either have to give more milk more often or look at other options.

i think as a parent you know if your baby is satisfied with milk alone or wants more.


blake was having 8x 8oz (max my bottles hold) in 24hrs and was "loosing weight" slowly, (he put on 1lb in 5weeks but dropped a percentile line) so HV has said he's not getting the nutrients he needs and told me to give baby rice. i guessed he was hungry with how much milk he was having so started him on food.

 

[petal040]

How do you know if LO is 'hungry' for solids if the only hunger she knows is hunger for milk?

it is hard but you can work it by the amount of bottles baby has in 24hrs and how many oz they have. i was told if they start taking bottles more frequently than b4 to keep note of it. the formua tins say at 4months they should have 5x 7oz bottles in 24hrs. anymore than this indicates hungry baby and you should speak to health professional for advice re: hungry milk. IF baby is on soya milk there is no hungrier milk option, therefore you either have to give more milk more often or look at other options.

i think as a parent you know if your baby is satisfied with milk alone or wants more.


blake was having 8x 8oz (max my bottles hold) in 24hrs and was "loosing weight" slowly, (he put on 1lb in 5weeks but dropped a percentile line) so HV has said he's not getting the nutrients he needs and told me to give baby rice. i guessed he was hungry with how much milk he was having so started him on food.

Ah okay... I can't do that cos I'm breastfeeding - and sometimes she has loads of feeds, like during a growth spurt, while other times she has less (but still loads, she's always had loads!)....

How do you know if baby needs food or if they just need more milk? Or does it not matter what they need more of, just that they need more?

I'm still confused about the changing guidelines. I have friends who have started on purees and their babies are also having finger foods. They are a similar age to my LO... who is 17 weeks but was 15 days overdue so should she be considered the same as a 19 week old?

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

Well it depends who you listen to. Gill Rapley, who is an expert in infant nutrition and wrote the BLW book, says that babies should always be given more milk, as much as they want, if they are under 6 months.

HVs are different matter.

 

[joeyjo]

There are reasons for the WHO stating 6 months though which do not really apply all over the world - we have to remember the WHO is UN wide and is for some countries who don't even have clean running water let alone a stove to heat food on

One of the reasons that they recommend exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months because in those countries it can sometimes be the only sterile food available to a mother! It also used stats like 60% of the 11 million infant deaths under 5yrs were caused by malnutrition, two thirds of these being due to bad practice in the first few months - this simply does not apply in the UK.

The UK's stand on the 6 month guide was based on the WHO recommendation - which is based on a worldwide study

Only 3 years ago the guidelines given out to UK mothers was that babies were able to be weaned from 17 weeks - it has only been these last 3 years that mothers have been advised to wean at 6 months...even though I am sure the guidelines were chnaged officilally before this, I know for a fact my friends who had babies as late as 3 yrs ago were told 17 wks.

Studies have shown that the babies gut is sealed and ready for solids some time between 17 weeks and 26 weeks - therefore a baby should not be given solids until they show all the signs of being ready (not just hunger/waking) ...but because all babies develop at different rates some will be ready before 26 weeks.

One thing I read on this topic was that as well as the 6 mth guideline - the WHO also at some point recommended that mothers who had to return to work should be given day care facilities & paid breaks for breast feeding ...funny how the UK choose which bits of the recommendations to band about...the 'easy' bits!

yeah i thought i had read that too.......really takes the pee doesnt it

it does! the UK always seems to pick the guidelines it feels are easy to introduce...but can't be bothered to do anything to make it easier for those it expects to follow the guidelines...because that would probably cost money and time!

My LO was born in Switzerland although we've since moved back to the UK. I was astounded to discover that there is a set amount of time per day that a woman has to be allowed off to breastfeed her baby once she returns to work.

 

[petal040]

Thanks everyone. I'm still confused but I think I will just have to think about it some more.

I've read the Gill Rapley book - and really want to do blw.

It's just that I am concerned by the fact that the guidelines are apparently going to change to advise earlier weaning - and I'm not sure why.

I hadn't thought of issues such as water quality affecting weaning ages - it's hard for me to take in all of what Gill Rapley says in her book just now cos LO is feeding so often and I'm so tired! But I can't seem to find any information about that in there? I understand her explanation of why the recommended ages have been what they have been until now - but obviously the book was published before the news about this most recent change was thought of?

 

[joeyjo]

I started BLW early at about 5 months. He got so agitated I began sitting him with us at the table for mealtimes about a week or 2 before we let him have any food. He was grabbing for our food and started sucking on my breakfast toast so we started giving him just a bit to play with.
I justified it because I thought he wouldn't eat much - however he is now tucking in to lots of things and swallowing some etc. I just presume he was ready a bit early

 

[Shri]

Our pediatrician told me, last year when Oscar was 4months that they now have research that sometime after 4 months is best to wean and that they used to say 6 months. I thought she had got it muddled - and in the end we decided to do what seemed best for Oscar and weaned him very very slowly at about 18 weeks - but I never did find out if she was just muddled or telling me the latest 'insider' opinion.

 

[aimee-lou]

I had read the same thread and had wondered the same thing.

As far as 'government guidelines' go, I worked in market research and all government guidelines are discussed from an economic point of view prior to being considered from any popular benefit. Therefore, the money generated for the economy by changing the guideline and duping mum's of babies who potenetially aren't ready to be weaned into buying expensive baby foods, is probably worth more than the potential risk that the population is being put under. The fact that 3 years ago these guidelines were in place too gives them a fallback of 'nothing bad happened then.'

HV's are more often than not 'briefed' on what to say. Whether or not they believe, agree or understand the reasonings behind these changes, they will have the preach them. I'm lucky in that my HV has been one for over 20 years and has done every bit of training under the sun. She has allowed me to make decisions by just giving me 'the facts' and where to find them to verify them.

I'm not saying that early weaning is a bad thing, and I may well have to do this with Earl (He's only 11 weeks at the moment so it's too early to tell) but as HB milk doesn't agree with him.....we shall have to see. What I am saying is that every Mum needs to take all the info on board and make a decision based on their own instincts, knowledge and the needs of their LO. Just becuase the 'nanny state' changes the guidelines doesn't necessarily mean that this is the correct way for every baby in the country!

Lisa - Interesting about the 17-26 week bracket. I didn't know this (may have missed it in the literature I have read- is it in the NHS stuff or more specialist knowledge?). If I had known this before I would probably have made a mental note to not even start to worry about solids until this bracket is upon us.

 

[Lisa1302]

I had read the same thread and had wondered the same thing.

As far as 'government guidelines' go, I worked in market research and all government guidelines are discussed from an economic point of view prior to being considered from any popular benefit. Therefore, the money generated for the economy by changing the guideline and duping mum's of babies who potenetially aren't ready to be weaned into buying expensive baby foods, is probably worth more than the potential risk that the population is being put under. The fact that 3 years ago these guidelines were in place too gives them a fallback of 'nothing bad happened then.'

HV's are more often than not 'briefed' on what to say. Whether or not they believe, agree or understand the reasonings behind these changes, they will have the preach them. I'm lucky in that my HV has been one for over 20 years and has done every bit of training under the sun. She has allowed me to make decisions by just giving me 'the facts' and where to find them to verify them.

I'm not saying that early weaning is a bad thing, and I may well have to do this with Earl (He's only 11 weeks at the moment so it's too early to tell) but as HB milk doesn't agree with him.....we shall have to see. What I am saying is that every Mum needs to take all the info on board and make a decision based on their own instincts, knowledge and the needs of their LO. Just becuase the 'nanny state' changes the guidelines doesn't necessarily mean that this is the correct way for every baby in the country!

Lisa - Interesting about the 17-26 week bracket. I didn't know this (may have missed it in the literature I have read- is it in the NHS stuff or more specialist knowledge?). If I had known this before I would probably have made a mental note to not even start to worry about solids until this bracket is upon us.

There is no rule for it, so most books just avoid the whole mystery and say 6 months is the ideal time. Babies guts develop 'some time' between 17-26 weeks...no one knows for sure when in any particular baby, however it is widely thought that the other signs that a baby is ready to wean - as in holding own head, sitting up well in a high chair, chewing, and trying to eat what food we eat - are signs that the baby has developed enough to be able to digest food.

Of course they continue to develop....which is why as they get older certain foods can be introduced, like gluten.

You wont find that in the NHS book, - but if you read up on it you will find it is what many paed doctors etc say....however like any subject when there is no definite answers to a question there will be many different opinions, but everyone must agree that the closure occurs before 6 months (just no one know how long before for each baby) , otherwise it would be an unsafe recommendation