How many feeds for 8 month old? Please help :(

[Care76]

Hello, my son is almost 8 months old and he has only gained 2 lbs since he was 3 months old. He gained very well in the beginning, but he was 9lbs 9oz at birth. The start of our BF relationship was very had. I had assisted conception and also an emergency C-Section after 3 days of being induced. My milk didn't come in for almost a week so we supplemented and I pumped and put him to breast constantly. Once it did my DS screamed at feedings and would want to eat every 20mins. He was diagnosed with colic by two dr.s, but I just knew something else was wrong. I didn't feel like I had enough milk for him but I was told that is what most mothers of colicky babies think and that I was fine. At 3 months I took him to Jack Newman's clinic (IBC) to get another opinion. Turns out my son's tongue tie was never released far enough so he couldn't latch and I had low supply, so basically he was starving all the time. That was why he was screaming all the time and he would also scream during feeding because there wasn't enough for him. Since then my son had two more releases and I was put on domperidone for supply and he is now doing great. I still have minor pain at times, but nothing I can't handle.

The problem is that now he is just so interested in playing that sometimes I can hardly get him to feed. I have tried beads and other things to try and distract him but he still pushes away from me. I figure if he is hungry enough he will eat, right? But our doctor is concerned that he hasn't doubled his birth weight and says he should be 20lbs by six months and he was 15lbs. Right now his is in the 6th percentile for weight and 91 percentile for height, big gap, and that was very close when he was born and in the first few months. Our doctor suggested formula. I worked so hard to get us where we are today and I really want to nurse him. I want the contact and the connection. I am so happy to not only have my beautiful miracle baby but also to be nursing him when people (lactation consultants included) kept telling me it might not work out because of all the interventions I have had.

So what I want to know is, how many good feeds (where I feel like he has drained each breast) should an almost 8 month old baby need per day? Right now he gets at least 4, with little bits in between (nursing for a few mins or only seconds) so maybe some days 5 if you add all the shorter feeds up. Sometimes I pump if I can't get him to eat and he is going in for a nap, but otherwise I like to try again later so I don't pump. He will drink from a sippy cup, but only 2-3 oz.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Care76]

Anybody?

I should also add that when he doesn't eat much during the day his diapers are not very wet. And at night they used to sometimes leak, but now they are wet in the morning, but not nearly full like they used to be. He did start sleeping through the night, so that is part of it, but I still go in and feed him before I go to bed so he gets an extra feed. My sister thinks maybe if I drop his night feed he might eat more in the day. I am too worried to not do it though and he is used to it now so he would probably eventually wake.

Example. This morning he woke by crying (he always does, he never wakes and plays) and even when I pick him up he is frantic to get my breast. When I gave it to him (right away) he ate for maybe 1-2 mins and then pushed away. I tried to get him back on but he turns and twists his body. He did the same thing yesterday. If he wakes so hungry, why doesn't he eat more?

 

[Lownthwaite]

Okay, firstly try not to worry hun - there is a solution to everything it's just a case of determining the problem and dealing with it.

Can I get a bit more information of his feeding? Have you started solids yet? What is he eating and when etc?

Personally I think your doctor saying that he should weigh 20lb by 12 months is wrong. All babies gain weight in their own time. I've just checked my daughters red book and at 12 months my daughter only weighed 18lb 12oz, I never got told to supplement with formula, she has never had any and she's perfectly fine.

It's hard to put an actual number of feedings on a baby at a certain age as all babies are different. Generally I work by the rule of if baby is gaining weight - even if slowly - and baby is happy and alert when awake then try not to worry too much.

In regards to the attention of feeding. Have you tried feeding in a quiet room? All stimuli removed - no tv, music, other people, light etc. Sometimes this can help although it's to be expected at 8 or so months for baby to be interested in his outside world.

You say he starts fidgeting a minute of so into the feeds? Do you know if your milk has let down when he starts doing this? Does he cough or splutter?

 

[Care76]

Thank you Lownthwaite.

He started on solids at 4 months at the advice of the international breastfeeding centre as he was very interested. Right now he eats 2-3 meals a day of mostly purees or mashed foods. I have been giving him a lot of avocados, bananas, and goats yogurt along with other fruits and veggies. I have tried not giving him solids hoping he would nurse more, but that didn't work. I give him his solids after he has nursed.

Right now I can only feed him in his room, room darkening curtains closed, door closed, in the rocking chair. Otherwise it is worse. But he still tries to hang off my lap or twist and turn our just stop and smile at me. I can't feed him out at all. He won't even nurse in the car or in another dark room so it makes it hard to go out.

He is gaining weight so slowly. Hardly any (half a pound) in the past two months. But he gained 1.5 inches in height. It is starting to worry me because I can feel and see so many of his bones and when naked he looks so small. When the doctor first suggested formula I wasn't too worried, but because he is getting longer and not really gaining he is getting thinner, so I started to worry.

 

[Care76]

He doesn't cough or sputter. Sometimes he is only on for a second or two but sometimes for a few mins. He is just active as far as I know. I don't seem to have an over supply issue, just the opposite. I take a very high dose of domperidone. I tried weaning down because I thought surely by now my body would know how much milk to produce, but nope my supply went down (I was taking fenugreek when I weaned). So now I have been back on my usual amount. But when on the Dom I do have enough milk, he just doesn't want to sit still to nurse. He sometimes just pushes me away.

 

[Lownthwaite]

He doesn't cough or sputter. Sometimes he is only on for a second or two but sometimes for a few mins. He is just active as far as I know. I don't seem to have an over supply issue, just the opposite. I take a very high dose of domperidone. I tried weaning down because I thought surely by now my body would know how much milk to produce, but nope my supply went down (I was taking fenugreek when I weaned). So now I have been back on my usual amount. But when on the Dom I do have enough milk, he just doesn't want to sit still to nurse. He sometimes just pushes me away.

Okay - sounds like you're happy with your supply when taking the domperidone so keep on with that. Don't forget to avoid foods that reduce supply too. Sage, peppermint, spearmint, lemon balm, oregano, certain contraceptives and decongestants.

It may be a case of baby gets bored waiting for let down therefore getting easily distracted. Try stimulating let down before he latches so he doesn't have to work for it. This sometimes works for little ones that don't like to wait.

How are his nappies? Poos are normal?

 

[Care76]

Today I tried feeding him 4 times and he still wouldn't take much. Let down already happened because I did get him to drain maybe almost half of one breast before he got bored. After trying for a while I took him downstairs to play for over an hour hoping he would east more, but he only sucked for 10-20 seconds each time then eventually I couldn't get him to go back at all. I even tried moving to another room and turning so he could seer the TV thinking something different might help. It is his nap time but he is crying because I think he is still hungry. I gave him pumped milk but he didn't even drink an ounce, he just wants to play with the cup. I put him back in and he just started crying again, oh now he stopped. I will go back in and try to nurse him again if he cries again.

He hasn't had very wet diapers. That is how I know there is a problem. He only poops 2-3 times a week. It is very hot here right now and I worry that he will be dehydrated by not drinking enough.

 

[Lownthwaite]

Today I tried feeding him 4 times and he still wouldn't take much. Let down already happened because I did get him to drain maybe almost half of one breast before he got bored. After trying for a while I took him downstairs to play for over an hour hoping he would east more, but he only sucked for 10-20 seconds each time then eventually I couldn't get him to go back at all. I even tried moving to another room and turning so he could seer the TV thinking something different might help. It is his nap time but he is crying because I think he is still hungry. I gave him pumped milk but he didn't even drink an ounce, he just wants to play with the cup. I put him back in and he just started crying again, oh now he stopped. I will go back in and try to nurse him again if he cries again.

He hasn't had very wet diapers. That is how I know there is a problem. He only poops 2-3 times a week. It is very hot here right now and I worry that he will be dehydrated by not drinking enough.

Is you doctors only solution to offer formula?
Have you seen a lactation consultant?

Does he feed more / better in the evening or during the night?

 

[Care76]

Yes, that was the only option my doctor gave us. That is our family physician, I won't go back to his Pediatrician as he is really a dope. He said his tongue tie wasn't an issue and didn't believe me when I thought I had supply issues, just kept saying "colic". He and I also differ on other things so I don't want to return to him. It is very hard to get a doctor here so I can't just switch.

But I have been pumping and offering that and sometimes he drinks and sometimes he doesn't, so formula might not help anyway.

He drinks better at night. That is why I go in and feed him at night even if he doesn't wake. Last night he didn't feed well though, but we are having a heat wave and I think that is effecting him.

I have seen lactation consultants and the last one I saw didn't say much except some babies don't eat a lot and some babies are skinny. But he was having more wet diapers then so I wasn't as worried then.

I just contacted Jack Newman's clinic (International Breastfeeding Centre). I am not sure if you guys know who he is over there but here in Canada he is very well known. We have been a few times and even though I have to drive over 2 hours each way and pay for the visit, it is worth it. I am not sure if they can help as he probably won't eat around them, but I am hoping they can help with something.

I will take any help I can get and I thank you for your advice. If you know of any tips I will try them. I tried giving him a small toy to play with thinking he might play with it while eating, but he just tried to put it in his mouth. When he took a few sips he stopped and put his foot in his mouth, lol. I can't feel any teeth coming in but maybe he is teething? He has been like this since 4 months but it has just gotten progressively worse.

 

[Care76]

I also need to add that his diapers not only weren't full but this morning it was very strong smelling. I told my mom and she wax visiting and changed him yesterday and she said when she did it was also very strong then. We have never noticed that before. I am worried about dehydration. I can't get in to my doctor, should I take him to the hospital?

 

[Care76]

I called my homeopath and she said as long as he was acting like himself not to worry.

I got him to eat today! I was reading on another thread how some swaddle they LOs to feed and I was thinking no way, as I haven't been able to swaddle my little man since 3 months since he kept breaking out of them. So I tried and it didn't work at first. Then I folded a blanket to be long and narrow and swaddled his arms only. He broke out a couple times before I could be fast enough to hold him in with my arms as well. We sat in his rocker and he fought at first but got tired and finally just latched. He came off a few times but he realized there wasn't anywhere he could go so he went right back to the boob. He ate from both sides for a good 10 mins!

You have no idea how relieved I feel. I hope this continues to work.

 

[tokyo]

Glad that you may have found a trick to help lo feed well. I'm not sure I can offer any advice but wanted to share my experiences with my 8 month old as I thought it might reassure you. She is a terrible feeder out and about, any tiny thing will distract her and that's it. At home she will only feed properly in her chair in her room with the blind shut and no noise, not even someone in the house walking! I also find that she'll only feed well when sleepy so I feed her before (and sometimes after) naps. Her feeds have gotten much much shorter in the last couple of months and sometimes I wonder if she can be getting anything out at all, but then I'll notice milk at the corners of her mouth or something and realise she is - think she's just become a lot more eficient. Her wee stinks when she is teething and I'm sure her nappies aren't as wet as they used to be, but I did read that your milk changes to meet your los needs as they grow, so if they are feeding less (as older ones do, esp once you introduce solids) the milk effectively becomes more fat and nutrient dense. I assume this means they can take in (and therfore wee out) much less without any problems. Shes on the 95th percentiles for height and weight and is following the curve exactly so all this isn't doing her any harm!

I wouldn't worry about dehydration if lo is alert, their soft spot is not sunken and the skin on the back of the hands springs back into place when pinched. But having said all that you know your lo best and I'm a firm believer in mother's instict - if you are worried get it checked, even if its just to put your own mind at rest.

Hope your lo keeps feeding better for you and you feel a bit better about things soon. x

 

[LegoHouse]

My son was 8lb5oz at birth, he is only 18lbs at almost 12months. At 6 months he was 12lbs. Not all babies grow how they want them to

 

[Care76]

Yes, I wish doctors wouldn't make it such a big deal for them not to gain a certain amount of weight. I think my LO is healthy and he is definitely happy, but my doctor makes me feel like I should be much more concerned. I am concerned, but I don't see how giving him formula will help. We are going tomorrow to get more help with BF as I still have some nipple pain and the Pedi will give me a second opinion.

Hopefully they can give me some feeding tips too. The swaddling didn't help as much the second time. He couldn't move his arms but he would pull off and stick his tongue out and blow spit at me then smile lol. Maybe he just wasn't that hungry.

Tokyo, that is good to know about the milk. Makes me feel a bit better. My son is the same. We feed in his room, curtains closed (room darkening), door closed, and in a rocking chair, but if he even hears my DH cough he pulls off and turns his head. I see other women BF in public and their babies have no issues. It makes me jealous.

 

[Lownthwaite]

I'd keep on with the swaddling if you think it's going to help. It's worth a try.

As tokyo said - if he's alert and responsive then I wouldn't worry too much about dehydration although reassurance does do wonders.

Have you tried different positions? Maybe he doesn't want to be lay down in cradle hold?

As my LO got older she used to like the saddle hold. Sitting astride my leg and sitting up right whilst feeding. Worth a try.

 

[Care76]

ROFL, yes we have even tried feeding with him upside down over my shoulder because he loves being upside down. He will sometimes take a couple sips in the saddle position but nothing much more than that. Same with lying back or laying down. He used to eat well with side lying but now he just rolls over. I have watched YouTube videos to get ideas but they are all a no go.

 

[Lownthwaite]

Until a solution is found I'd offer him his solids with breast milk mixed in. Are you able to pump or hand express well?

I used to make up lots of things from my milk. Porridge, mashed potato, BM mixed with mashed banana etc. That will help increase his BM intake whilst you're getting to grips with what works.

Have you tried him with a sippy sup? My DD refused bottles of EBM from the childminder when I went back to work at 9 months so she would give her sippy cups of EBM, cold straight from the fridge because she didn't drink it warmed. Worth at try. Keep offering the breast though too so latching isn't affected.

 

[charlie15]

Just read through this thread as I knew yiu are having similar problems to me with my DD. I am still struggling too, but like pp said I'm adding expressed breast milk to foods. My DD feeds really well 1st thing in the morning and that's probably it, the rest are nibbles. So I have no advice, just wanted to share so yiu feel less alone! I'm jealous if mums who can feed in public too!

 

[charlie15]

Oh and I see your LO loves hanging upside down, funny so does Sophia! That's her party trick when she's on my lap! They sound so similar

 

[Care76]

Charlie, I was told today at the IBC that sometimes when babies that like to hang upside down can sometimes be a sign off something else. I was told to take him back for craniosacral therapy. After thinking about it (and it could just be coincidence) he always fed well until we stopped going. So we will be going back for that.

And they do sound similar! Hopefully we both can find something that helps. Any luck with your LO?

Until a solution is found I'd offer him his solids with breast milk mixed in. Are you able to pump or hand express well?

I used to make up lots of things from my milk. Porridge, mashed potato, BM mixed with mashed banana etc. That will help increase his BM intake whilst you're getting to grips with what works.

Have you tried him with a sippy sup? My DD refused bottles of EBM from the childminder when I went back to work at 9 months so she would give her sippy cups of EBM, cold straight from the fridge because she didn't drink it warmed. Worth at try. Keep offering the breast though too so latching isn't affected.

He does get a sippy cup and he will sometimes drink if we are out but not really at home. And i can pump quite a bit, but I worry then he'd will want to nurse and i will be empty. Today I was told to not give him pureed or mashed foods anymore and to give him food just like I eat. I was surprised, but they think he needs it as he wants to do everything himself.

I was told to feed him more solids and maybe he will be thirsty and want to nurse. Also to just keep offering the breast over and over. Sounds great but my nipples are killing me. It sometimes feels like sandpaper on a normal day and with him going on and off so many times it really took a toll on me. He also bit me twice and holy sh!t it hurt. He has two bottom teeth, what will it be like with his upper teeth?!

I am really wondering if his upper lip tie is effecting his latch as he never flanges his top lip out. I really should have pushed to have it assessed again. I go back in a month and I might push for it then.

They also upped my Dom as think think he might want faster flow. I have a lot of milk, at least I feel like I do, but maybe this will help. Except this medicine make me feel like I am STARVING. I also seem to be retaining a lot of water.

Dr. Newman says he is just a slow gainer. He was even less than when I weighed him at home, 15lbs 8oz. But he isn't too worried so I feel better.