I don't agree with this ....

[ticking.clock]

I don't understand why promoting breastfeeding = shoving it down your throat. Breastfeeding is the best way to feed your baby, so it should be promoted. By not giving formula to new moms when they ask for it for no medical reason, they are encouraging breastfeeding.

They're not saying there's no formula allowed in the hospital and if you want to formula feed you must have your baby elsewhere. THAT would be shoving it down your throat.

If you want to FF you are free to do so, just buy your own before you have your baby. Why is that such a problem?

It's when it goes pass promotion into something else. I can see not allowing advertisement as equivalent to no advertising for certain medicines to protect consumers, not providing formula to FF mums at birth since BF mum aren't automatically given it either, but not allowing certain healthcare professionals to talk about it prior to birth, making companies print "breast is best" on their tin and websites (it's not on them to put out that message, if the government wants it out, put it on a bus or posters), no information leaflets etc.

We know epidural increases the risk of interventions, imagine if there's a campaign to suppress information about it so women would choose "natural labour" to the extent that's being done with BF and FF. While we may still be "free" to get them, the actions and the policies do have an effect on many people.

Honestly though, the info is there. It's on the tin. Pick a brand and go for it. It's all going to be fine. If there are allergy issues down the road, the doctors will help you with it at that point but what prenatal advice on FF is actually needed?

You could say the same about BF! If its so natural why do they have BF councillors/classes/info from mw??

 

[Bean66]

I don't understand why promoting breastfeeding = shoving it down your throat. Breastfeeding is the best way to feed your baby, so it should be promoted. By not giving formula to new moms when they ask for it for no medical reason, they are encouraging breastfeeding.

They're not saying there's no formula allowed in the hospital and if you want to formula feed you must have your baby elsewhere. THAT would be shoving it down your throat.

If you want to FF you are free to do so, just buy your own before you have your baby. Why is that such a problem?

It's when it goes pass promotion into something else. I can see not allowing advertisement as equivalent to no advertising for certain medicines to protect consumers, not providing formula to FF mums at birth since BF mum aren't automatically given it either, but not allowing certain healthcare professionals to talk about it prior to birth, making companies print "breast is best" on their tin and websites (it's not on them to put out that message, if the government wants it out, put it on a bus or posters), no information leaflets etc.

We know epidural increases the risk of interventions, imagine if there's a campaign to suppress information about it so women would choose "natural labour" to the extent that's being done with BF and FF. While we may still be "free" to get them, the actions and the policies do have an effect on many people.

Honestly though, the info is there. It's on the tin. Pick a brand and go for it. It's all going to be fine. If there are allergy issues down the road, the doctors will help you with it at that point but what prenatal advice on FF is actually needed?

You could say the same about BF! If its so natural why do they have BF councillors/classes/info from mw??

Because unfortunately westernised/developed society has changed everything. Primates and other animals don't need classes and we wouldn't have survived thousands of years had we actually needed to be taught. The same with child birth. In tribes they have family support around them who probably assist and new mums either keep themselves in private or more commonly are uncovered, clothing, scent, inhibition aren't distracting from the process.

The problem is we live our lives far away from natural now, we have lost our instincts. We still have the linea nigra line to help the baby find it's way, our nipples still darken as targets for the baby. You can't say these aren't natural processes.

I do think that everyone has a right to their our choices and opinions but I don't feel that anyone can say hand on heart that FF is better for a baby than BF. Obviously there are situations where the use of FF is a life saver. I'm not saying it isn't but if it comes down to the simple fact that either are an option then BF is best. You can't beat nature.

 

[Bean66]

It terms of advertising, I think it is about eduction. People who were FF are more likely to FF and maybe never consider BF because FF is what they know. By putting Breast is best out there and getting MWs to talk about it, then it is helping to educate and break the cycle.

I maybe wrong but I think BF rates have increased a lot since the changes in advertising and education around BF.

 

[bubbles]

I don't understand why promoting breastfeeding = shoving it down your throat. Breastfeeding is the best way to feed your baby, so it should be promoted. By not giving formula to new moms when they ask for it for no medical reason, they are encouraging breastfeeding.

They're not saying there's no formula allowed in the hospital and if you want to formula feed you must have your baby elsewhere. THAT would be shoving it down your throat.

If you want to FF you are free to do so, just buy your own before you have your baby. Why is that such a problem?

It's when it goes pass promotion into something else. I can see not allowing advertisement as equivalent to no advertising for certain medicines to protect consumers, not providing formula to FF mums at birth since BF mum aren't automatically given it either, but not allowing certain healthcare professionals to talk about it prior to birth, making companies print "breast is best" on their tin and websites (it's not on them to put out that message, if the government wants it out, put it on a bus or posters), no information leaflets etc.

We know epidural increases the risk of interventions, imagine if there's a campaign to suppress information about it so women would choose "natural labour" to the extent that's being done with BF and FF. While we may still be "free" to get them, the actions and the policies do have an effect on many people.

Honestly though, the info is there. It's on the tin. Pick a brand and go for it. It's all going to be fine. If there are allergy issues down the road, the doctors will help you with it at that point but what prenatal advice on FF is actually needed?

You could say the same about BF! If its so natural why do they have BF councillors/classes/info from mw??

Because as much as its natural in that the body produces milk for the infant not all infant "get it" straight away, sometimes there are issues with babys latch caused by things like tongue tie or upper lip tie. Dietary needs of baby, such as lactose intolerance which would require mum to amend diet. Mum could have inverted nipples...

There are a lot of myths pushed by doctors who just don't update their knowledge and loads that health care professionals don't tell you about. This is where lactation experts are worth their weight in gold.

 

[ticking.clock]

Your missing my point.......

I'm not against BF or FF, I have said that the BEST feeding method is one that makes mum and baby happy, but the info for BOTH should be given

 

[special_kala]

"if its so natural"? What a strange thing to say!


All the help mums get from mws about breastfeeding is replacing the support they would have got had the human experience not gone so far from what it should be.

Traditionally you would have your mum, aunties. Cousins, sisters to help you with breastfeeding. People with actual experience but now its gone the other way that a lot of mums sisters etc are just saying formula feed. We have lost a whole generation of breast feeders because of stupid doctors in the 50s making a huge deal out of a product that at the time wasnt even very good.

 

[ticking.clock]

But for some it's not so natural,
Many women can't or won't BF for various reasons and being made to feel like we don't care about our baby, or made to feel guilty by this "breast is best" drive is wrong!

I won't EVER breast feed, for my emotional health.......... I was sexually abused as a child and BF would cause me unnecessary emotional distress, which would not be good for my baby.....

BF promoters needs to remember the mothers in this, so for me BF is not natural.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I formula fed my other 2. I never needed help, its pretty straight forward. If I decide to BF this time I WILL need help as it doesn't always come naturally and the latch etc, I totally agree more BF helpers and support in hospitals is needed. Its not discrimination against FF!

 

[ticking.clock]

I formula fed my other 2. I never needed help, its pretty straight forward. If I decide to BF this time I WILL need help as it doesn't always come naturally and the latch etc, I totally agree more BF helpers and support in hospitals is needed. Its not discrimination against FF!

It is if first time mums want some guidance about FF and your MW or HV can't advise on anything other than BF,

I'm not saying that BF shouldn't be promoted but that advice on ANY feeding method should be available.

 

[special_kala]

I formula fed my first and I never let anyone make me feel like I didn't care or made to feel guilty. Why would I formula isn't poison.

There is no way to get around the fact that breastfeeding is the most natural way to feed our babies that doesn't mean its the right choice for everyone though.n

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Even a first time mum can work out how to FF- the MW wont point blank refuse to help but they dont need special training or anything. You just read the tin. I was nervous with my first but its fine once you have made a bottle etc its fine.

 

[ticking.clock]

Even a first time mum can work out how to FF- the MW wont point blank refuse to help but they dont need special training or anything. You just read the tin. I was nervous with my first but its fine once you have made a bottle etc its fine.

You're assuming that, no one really knows what someone will need support with as we are all so different

I remember being in hospital when I had my first baby, I was 18.....
A lady about 22 was in the same room and boy was her baby having a screaming fit, MW said "oh you have a crier" and ignored her, she was distraught... Baby was thrashing his legs so I asked her if I could try settle him.... It was obvious to me that he had wind (I burped him and he settled quickly) mum was so happy to see her baby content and hugged me for helping,
I remember thinking..... Something so simple yet some mums just don't prepare for life with a baby.
When she fed him next she was asking me if she was holding him/winding him right and she was, he was content after that (and yes she was BF) but I often wonder if she would have given up BF if she didn't know what was causing his discomfort??

IMO advice should be given on what a lady feels she needs advice on including FF

 

[patooti]

Your missing my point.......

I'm not against BF or FF, I have said that the BEST feeding method is one that makes mum and baby happy, but the info for BOTH should be given

Not missing the point, I don't think. Just don't agree. The BEST source of food and comfort and immune support for a baby is to be breast fed. This is true whether mom is happy with that or not. Some women aren't able or don't want to do that and that is their choice. An alternative exists that means these kids get nutrition that is not too bad and most get by just fine with it. There are health costs to babies and even some deaths (this has recently been quantified in a study) but for the vast majority it is fine.

I get what you are saying and understand you but honestly the increased pushing of breast feeding is, in many cases helpful.

Health care providers in baby friendly hospitals definitely help with ffing once bfing has been tried if it means baby is not thriving without supplementation. They just don't discuss it as an option before bfing has even been attempted (even just a day of bfing is beneficial)

We aren't surprised when docs etc don't provide you info on smoking or drinking as choice to deal with stress but they will help you quit. Choosing to smoke when stressed is a choice many people make And they feel it helps them but it doesn't mean we can or should promote cigs for relaxation or have docs suggest this and discuss this option to healthy non smokers. This may sound like a silly comparison but in my grand Mother's time her doc DID encourage her to smoke for her nerves. Times change as we get more info on risks and benefits.

 

[ticking.clock]

Your missing my point.......

I'm not against BF or FF, I have said that the BEST feeding method is one that makes mum and baby happy, but the info for BOTH should be given

Not missing the point, I don't think. Just don't agree. The BEST source of food and comfort and immune support for a baby is to be breast fed. This is true whether mom is happy with that or not. Some women aren't able or don't want to do that and that is their choice. An alternative exists that means these kids get nutrition that is not too bad and most get by just fine with it. There are health costs to babies and even some deaths (this has recently been quantified in a study) but for the vast majority it is fine.

I get what you are saying and understand you but honestly the increased pushing of breast feeding is, in many cases helpful.

Health care providers in baby friendly hospitals definitely help with ffing once bfing has been tried if it means baby is not thriving without supplementation. They just don't discuss it as an option before bfing has even been attempted (even just a day of bfing is beneficial)

We aren't surprised when docs etc don't provide you info on smoking or drinking as choice to deal with stress but they will help you quit. Choosing to smoke when stressed is a choice many people make And they feel it helps them but it doesn't mean we can or should promote cigs for relaxation or have docs suggest this and discuss this option to healthy non smokers. This may sound like a silly comparison but in my grand Mother's time her doc DID encourage her to smoke for her nerves. Times change as we get more info on risks and benefits.

Yes breast is best if its what suits mum/baby,
But IMO a happy mum and baby is more important than a stressed out mum who feels pressured into a feeding method she isn't comfortable with, so info on both should be available

 

[Bean66]

Your missing my point.......

I'm not against BF or FF, I have said that the BEST feeding method is one that makes mum and baby happy, but the info for BOTH should be given

Not missing the point, I don't think. Just don't agree. The BEST source of food and comfort and immune support for a baby is to be breast fed. This is true whether mom is happy with that or not. Some women aren't able or don't want to do that and that is their choice. An alternative exists that means these kids get nutrition that is not too bad and most get by just fine with it. There are health costs to babies and even some deaths (this has recently been quantified in a study) but for the vast majority it is fine.

I get what you are saying and understand you but honestly the increased pushing of breast feeding is, in many cases helpful.

Health care providers in baby friendly hospitals definitely help with ffing once bfing has been tried if it means baby is not thriving without supplementation. They just don't discuss it as an option before bfing has even been attempted (even just a day of bfing is beneficial)

We aren't surprised when docs etc don't provide you info on smoking or drinking as choice to deal with stress but they will help you quit. Choosing to smoke when stressed is a choice many people make And they feel it helps them but it doesn't mean we can or should promote cigs for relaxation or have docs suggest this and discuss this option to healthy non smokers. This may sound like a silly comparison but in my grand Mother's time her doc DID encourage her to smoke for her nerves. Times change as we get more info on risks and benefits.

Yes breast is best if its what suits mum/baby,
But IMO a happy mum and baby is more important than a stressed out mum who feels pressured into a feeding method she isn't comfortable with, so info on both should be available

But you are an exception. I am very sorry for your past but your situation isn;t usual. I am sure that any decent MW/HV who is aware that there is a psychological reason behind not wanting to BF will provide you with support. At first this may be to encourage you to have counselling but after that I am sure they would help you with FF if it was required. That doesn't mean they should teach everyone who chooses to FF how to FF. There job is to promote BF because it is proven to be best for mum and baby if time is spent educating and teaching both mother and baby how to do it properly. IT greatly reduces failure rates.

 

[aliss]

Sexual abuse is unfortunately usual for a decent size portion of the female population (... something like 1/3, 1/4??) and also more prevalent for women coming from lower income/social status groups.

Perhaps the topic should be covered for women who may be interested in health benefits of breastfeeding but need help reconciling it with abuse. Some women here in the past have said that breastfeeding helped them recover from their past abuse as it helped bring a new meaning to the act, which all they could think of was their prior abuse.

I can understand why an abuse victim would not want to breastfeed, but I also think some abuse victims could benefit from attempting it IF it helps them, and some victims do not know that other SA survivors have felt healed by it.

 

[patooti]

Sexual abuse is unfortunately usual for a decent size portion of the female population (... something like 1/3, 1/4??) and also more prevalent for women coming from lower income/social status groups.

Perhaps the topic should be covered for women who may be interested in health benefits of breastfeeding but need help reconciling it with abuse. Some women here in the past have said that breastfeeding helped them recover from their past abuse as it helped bring a new meaning to the act, which all they could think of was their prior abuse.

I can understand why an abuse victim would not want to breastfeed, but I also think some abuse victims could benefit from attempting it IF it helps them, and some victims do not know that other SA survivors have felt healed by it.

I think if bfing were more prevalent more women that felt uncomfortable with using their breasts to feed baby for whatever reason, would seem counselling to resolve their emotional issues and this would be good for babies AND women. Instead most people that are uncomfortable with it just feel that formula is a great and equivalent alternative and go that route since it IS easier. Health care providers take a strong and often unpopular stance because they are trying to improve bfing rates. This is good and I just don't agree that they there is a need to equally represent, teach, or promote formula. It will be there for women when ther is a legit need. But if you CHOOSE to ff straight away, it is your choice. Just like smoking is a choice but own it. I don't think we shoukd expect the health care community promote that option though and we certainly shouldn't let formula companies get involved, the profit to be made off formula is part of why current bfing rates are so low. At one point you only bf'd if you couldn't afford formula. It was promoted as BETTER just so companies could profit and we are still fighting some of these old ideas.

 

[ticking.clock]

Not everyone will have the courage to speak up about abuse,
I'm not saying breast isn't the best as it is how nature intended, however the advise and support should be their for both

 

[Baby France]

So its wrong to shove breast feeding down peoples throats but its ok to want to allow formula companies to shove that down peoples throats in a nice expensive manipulative way?

Give me a break. Most women are smart enough to make an informed decision on ff vs bf. Just because something is advertised on tv doesn't mean they are manipulating women and shoving it down their throats. The channel can be changed if the commercial isn't liked. They are simply letting ppl know there is an alternative to bf. I am talking about nurses in the hospital that don't want to listen to what I have decided and won't back off. That's where I have a problem with it.

You did realise that they actually used to say that breast feeding was bad for your baby?

ETA sorry....FF was BETTER for your baby than BF.

There are reasons why the government put laws on formula companies - the crap that they used to spout is incredible.

It became normal to FF as mothers thought it was harmful to baby while BF. THAT is why the government and NHS are so supportive of it as believe it or not, some mums to be could actually be encouraged to FF from families under the illusion that BF is bad.

 

[special_kala]

My ohs nan genuinely believed you couldn't sustain a baby past a few months on breast milk.

My mum stopper feeding my sister at 3 months because her milk dried up....which had nothing to do with the fact her doctor told her to only feed every four hours and not before.

The amount of crap people used to be told about breastfeeding was shocking. Some of the baby cribs at my hospital stipl have "donated by cow and gate" they didn't do those things out of the kindness of their heart it was a marketing ploy.

Google nestle ban and you will see the disgustingly low depths nestle went to promote formula. It is sick what they did to those mums and babies.