interesting article in the paper today

[nikkip75]

exactly aidans mum

 

[lyre]

i agree, people are far too judgemental when it comes to the decisions mothers make. why does everyone feel its their right to judge parenting decisions that are obviously not abusive. i always thought this forum was for support primarily. i know debating can be interesting but i think sometimes it undermines the supporting aspect. maybe we should have a seperate debating area where people who want to debate can post controversial things.

 

[firstLO]

I'm currently taking part in a "National Infant Diet and Health Study". It's being run by MRC Human Nutrition Research and the National Centre for Social Research. They have conducted various studies in the past on older children but are now studying children aged between 4 months and 18 months. They got my details through being registered with Bounty so others on here may also be taking part. A lady came to my house and asked me a series of questions about my child's eating and drinking habits, whether she was FF or BF and for how long, when I started weaning, whether she eats purees or solid foods and also questions about family life and income etc (it's all anonymous btw). I'm now completing a 4 day food diary of everything my 14 month old eats and drinks, at what time and who's feeding her. I have to give exact amounts too which is pretty hard as she doesn't have pureed food. You even need to write down if she has like one sweet or something! I also have to include recipes and any food packaging (eg cereal bar wrapper). The second part of the study then involves both her and my height and weight being taken and then, if I wish, I can take her to a clinic fora small blood sample to be taken to measure her iron an other nutrient levels etc.
I'm finding it all quite interesting really and certainly for me this is the study I will most interested in the results of as I know exactly what it entails and that many different factors are being taken into account. I should also point out that they are getting information from a wide range of families e.g parents of more than one child and families where both parents work etc.
Just thought some of you might be interested.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

That sounds interesting
xx

 

[Kit]

I don't really get why everyone has to get their back up when someone quotes an article like this - if you KNOW why kids are fat, you do the opposite? Stop complaining about 'fatso' kids - they aren't your kids. You can exclude your kid from the 'fatso' kid club because you breastfed until 12 months, weaned at 6 months, work 9-5, have a degree and are 25, therefore you don't fall into any of the high risk categories.


My daughter is 18 months old. Sometimes, she goes to McDonalds with my sister. Generally, she has a high fat diet. She eats a lot of dairy products, in fact we include at least one portion of dairy in every meal she has. She has the same thing for breakfast every day.
She won't eat things with lumps in. If we have stew, or anything with some sort of sauce, she won't have it. I started weaning her at 14 weeks. She likes chocolate.

Now I wonder, if you'll judge me by the fact that I am 21, and neither me nor my OH work. Or if you'll take into account that my daughter has a serious disability - in fact not just one, a few. She can't eat lumps because she has Chiari Malformation and will vomit when certain textures are put into her mouth. She has a lot of dairy products because one of her disabilities involves a VERY (I mean about 75%) high risk of brittle bone disease. Our paed told us to start weaning her at 14 weeks because she had very severe reflux. OMG she goes to McDonalds, I must be such a shite mother. Oh, and she was formula fed. From birth. Because I, her humble mother, was in such a state that my milk never even came in. Maybe I should have starved my baby who came very very close to dying from a brain infection so I could breastfeed her, and raise her IQ by four points, and safeguard her against the risk of obesity in later life.

Now do I listen to a bunch of screeching women telling me what I should do, or am I allowed to actually listen to the group of medical professionals, all highly trained in their own field (neurologist, neurosurgeon, paediatrician, dietician, orthopedic surgeon) who all know infinitely more about by daughter and her condition than anyone else does.

And because my kid eats so much 'crap', she must be fat, right? She'll grow up to be a 'fatso' kid. Uhm... She weighs less than the average 10 month old. If she doesn't gain some weight (and yes, we have been told to go to extreme measures now) - she will be fitted with a PEG tube, and each night her stomach will be filled with a fatty, sugary fluid, complete with added vitamins, to help her grow.

Yes, there is research going on. But there is no need to shove things like this down other people's throats. You have your opinion - other people have theirs. No need to cry over it.

Really unnecessary. Of course you should be listening to the drs as your daughter needed to be weaned early due to a medical condition. No-one as far as I could see was arguing with that or suggesting that they knew more than the drs.

It is a very odd attitude to say that people should not be concerned with obese children who are not their own. Where does that stop? Not concerned about people who are elderly because I am not? Not concerned by those who face any particular problem because I am not facing it? Sadly we seem to be moving more to a society where no-one is to care about anyone else because it is 'not their business' and woe betide anyone who dares to offer advice or give their opinion.

No-one was criticising your weaning decisions or your decision to FF. But it seems like you had plenty criticisms to make of others.

Its not an odd attitude - I just know that it ISN'T any my business, and don't like the general attitude of today's society towards other people's raising of their children. The point I was trying to make was that the general population - not a specific person, or even the users of this form (who I by and large love and think are incredibly supportive) - are judgemental to a ridiculous degree. I don't judge others, because its not my place to do that. But some of the statements people make are downright ludicrous. Why should I have to mention that my daughter is disabled and that's why she eats the things she does? Why should anyone have to justify themselves to other people just to stop themselves being attacked?

NIFirsttimer - I wasn't aiming that at you. Regarding the screeching women comment - it does sometimes get a bit screechy on here, but I never said it was screeching in this thread.

I might be being a bit slow today, but I don't really understand what you are annoyed about. In your first post you asked why people have to get their backs up when people post an article like this but you seem to be taking offence at people judging early weaners so I don't understand if you are annoyed about the article itself or the discussion that has followed it which has been mainly about the research itself and whether or not it shows a credible risk, or whether other factors are at play. This hasn't been a thread where people have criticised early weaning and no-one has even touched on some of the issues you raise. Why say "you will probably judge me for being 21 and not working" (I paraphrase) - why say that? No-one is judging you at all, for any reason whatsoever.
People have to be allowed to have opinions and discuss things like this - the thread has stayed civilised and raised some interesting points. And I agree that the world would be a sorry place if everyone adhered strictly to the "mind your own business" principle. I am interested in things that will affect the world I live in for the rest of my life, and more importantly, the world my son will live in, perhaps into the next century. I am concerned about whether he will be paying high taxes to support an NHS that is overburdened with problems arising from our increasingly sedentery lifestyle. I am concerned about whether he will be part of population that spends its life paying for health mistakes our generation made. I am hopeful that some of the information we gather and the improved advice we now have will lead to positive changes in the health of our country that will impact on his life.
I think that is my business!
I am sorry if I offend you but I think your response was more in keeping with what I would expect to see in one of the early weaning threads that got out of control - I don't understand the reason for it.

 

[Foogirl]

You make it your buisness of that child is coming to harm

But I wouldnt see early weaning as a cause for concern
xx

No, of course it isn't. Nor is seeing a child eating an ice cream or being in MacDonalds. There is a line to be drawn as to where people step in. However, it seems that for some reason people don't step in because they don't think it is any of their business. Or they think that someone else will. Or they are afraid of getting it wrong.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I know what you mean hun

I am the opposite to that If I think a child is in danger I will act quickly and inform the appropriate people of my concerns

xx

 

[NIfirsttimer]

i dont think anyone is suggesting that other people do it 'wrong' but its about sharing information and getting another point of view.. for example. i was chatting to a mum at our swimming class months ago, and she mentioned that she was doing Baby led weaning, and told me all about the advantages, i admit id not heard of it before, Ruby was still a tiny baby and i hadn't really done any research on the weaning stage. i was shocked, and a bit confused and wondered why everyone else i know fed purees, and what the theories behind blw were, so i came home, looked into it, read the BLW book, some traditional weaning books, and the BLW threads on here, and spoke to other people about it, and as i result, im now successfully BLW my daughter! who knows... if that lady hadnt felt it was her place, or her business, to ask how i was going to wean her, and talk to me about why she feels BLW is best for her daughter, then maybe i would never have come across it, and not be doing (and loving) it! My point isnt that i ended up doing it, but just that i became aware of it.. even if i had decided that it wasnt for me,and gone down the puree route instead, then surely that would still have been a better made decision because i had made it, being fully aware of the alternatives?
the people i find hard to understand are NOT the people who wean early because their dr told them too, and NOT the people who researched both ways, got all the information they needed, then decided to wean early for whatever reason, its the people who just automatically do it because they think it must be fine because they / their friend / their next door neighbours auntie all did it, and dont bother finding out WHY the guidelines changed, or gathering the necessary information before making that decision. jeepers.. ive heard more than once, of someone weaning early because THEY couldnt wait any longer, and excited to get started on it.

the 'not anyone elses business' thing is a real grey area.
eg.. some of my family think BLW is the most insane thing that they have ever heard... its 'not their business' as in its MY decision to wean my daughter how i want, it IS thier business in that they, like me, want the best for her, and what they believe is best, is puree weaning. they arent making a personal attack on me, but they speak out about it because they love her, and want to be sure im doing right by her.
i would NEVER see a child in McDonalds, and think 'oh god that poor child' and i would NEVER see a young mum and think 'she mustnt know what shes doing' and am actually quite insulted that anyone might think that i would!

 

[nikkip75]

i dont think anyone is suggesting that other people do it 'wrong' but its about sharing information and getting another point of view.. for example. i was chatting to a mum at our swimming class months ago, and she mentioned that she was doing Baby led weaning, and told me all about the advantages, i admit id not heard of it before, Ruby was still a tiny baby and i had really done any research on the weaning stage. i was shocked, and a bit confused and wondered why everyone else i know fed purees, and what the reasons blw were, so i came home, looked into it, read the BLW book, some traditional weaning books, and the BLW threads on here, and spoke to other people about it, and as i result, im now successfully BLW my daughter! who knows... if that lady hadnt felt it was her place, or her business, to ask how i was going to wean her, and talk to me about why she feels BLW is best for her daughter, then maybe i would never have come across it, and not be doing (and loving) it! My point isnt that i ended up doing it, but just that i became aware of it.. even if i had decided that it wasnt for me,and went down the puree route, surely that would still have been a better made decision because i had made it, being fully aware of the alternatives?

the 'not anyone elses business' thing is a real grey area.
eg.. some of my family think BLW is the most insane thing that they have ever heard... its 'not their business' as in its MY decision to wean my daughter how i want, it IS thier business in that they, like me, want the best for her, and what they believe is best, is puree weaning. they arent making a personal attack on me, but they speak out about it because they love her, and want to be sure im doing right by her.
i would NEVER see a child in McDonalds, and think 'oh god that poor child' and i would NEVER see a young mum and think 'she mustnt know what shes doing' and am actually quite insulted that anyone might think that i would!

i was noway saying you would think that hun but there is some people who would and ive seen it on here!
and like you say if that woman hadnt told you about BLW then you wouldnt have known about it.But i bet she didnt give you a lecture on it like some people do about early weaning?

Ive seen threads on here where someone has said oh i seen this girl giving her baby solids and the baby only looked about 2 months old and people have replied with well i would have gone over to her an told her the dangers of early weaning if that was me!! i was like WHAT!! if someone came over to me and started lecturing me about how i should wean my baby well i would go crazy and the air would probably be BLUE!!!

i do BLW with Eden and some of the looks you get from people when they see you giving a 6 month old a plate of veggies, well they must think wth is that woman doing to that poor child! well thats none of their business thats what i mean when i say people should but out! not to see a child being neglected and just think oh well its not of my business but like you say there is a grey area, i just think some people over step the mark

the study doesnt even bother me! i dont read into all that stuff to much

 

[NIfirsttimer]

yeah... i get the looks too lol..
we order for Ruby from the childrens menu now, and the waiter / waitresses faces are a sketch when they take an order for an 8 month old lol

 

[Foogirl]

yeah... i get the looks too lol..
we order for Ruby from the childrens menu now, and the waiter / waitresses faces are a sketch when they take an order for an 8 month old lol

Oh, just for kicks, next time, order Ruby an espresso and see what they do

 

[polo_princess]

Wow this threads gone round the houses a little

I always take any "study" published in newspapers with a pinch of salt as generally there tends to be a motive behind them and their findings

Im not obese and i was weaned at 4 months, do i believe its because i was weaned at 4 months? Certainley not ... i believe that its because my parents taught me good eating habits which i have followed through as an adult. That is what i believe makes both children and adults obese, poor eating habits and bad attitudes towards food.

There may well be some truth in the article but its certainley not the be all and end all

 

[Lisa1302]

I agree that some people, especially on forums are so judgemental it is unreal. I normally seem to be the 'saddo' who says 'hang on..but how do you know she wasn't doing it because of x, y or z?'

I think quite often people think Izzy is eating early lol - she has no hair to speak of and still has a very baby face - so when some people see us and she is sat eating a sandwich I do get funny looks - so who knows, maybe they think I am feeding a much younger baby a sandwich?!

I even feel judged if I don't wear my ring when she is with me - its not even an 'engagement ring', its a commitment ring....but I remember when she was about 3 months getting her jabs and an elderly couple were whispering and it was so obvious they were looking to see if I had a ring on...no doubt had I forgotten it that day I would have been branded a 'teenage single mother' (I was asked for ID to buy Lemsip recently...you only have to be 16..and I am 30 , so clearly I must look like a teenager ) - we all know what assumptions come with that in the eyes of the older generations!

 

[Lazy Leo]

I've followed this thread from its beginnings and resisted posting as I had a fair idea it would end up like this. But NIFirsttimer what really got my goat was your initial post. Your great big 'thumbup' smilies might as well be a neon light to say we are completely right to wait till 6 months and those of you who do so at 4 months are obviously wrong. Its a bit kind of 'stick that in your pipe and smoke it' to use a local expression.

Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across that way, but its the way I read it. The thing with forums is obviously that there is no tone and sometimes there can be no way of knowing what was really intended. I hoped that it wasn't your intention to give off that vibe, and still do. I hope it was more a way of showing that you are pleased to have had some form of validation that what you are doing is 'right', rather than what others are doing is 'wrong'. (if there is such a thing as 'right' or 'wrong' in this debate).

I think its really sad that mums who take the decision to wean their babies at 4 months, for whatever reason, or who chose to FF over BF are made to feel that they are 'bad mums' when so often this is not the case. I think there is a line to be drawn as to when intervention is necessary and when people really do need to back off and let people make the decisions which are best for them and their families within their own individual circumstances.

 

[NIfirsttimer]

I've followed this thread from its beginnings and resisted posting as I had a fair idea it would end up like this. But NIFirsttimer what really got my goat was your initial post. Your great big 'thumbup' smilies might as well be a neon light to say we are completely right to wait till 6 months and those of you who do so at 4 months are obviously wrong. Its a bit kind of 'stick that in your pipe and smoke it' to use a local expression.

Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across that way, but its the way I read it. The thing with forums is obviously that there is no tone and sometimes there can be no way of knowing what was really intended. I hoped that it wasn't your intention to give off that vibe, and still do. I hope it was more a way of showing that you are pleased to have had some form of validation that what you are doing is 'right', rather than what others are doing is 'wrong'. (if there is such a thing as 'right' or 'wrong' in this debate).

I think its really sad that mums who take the decision to wean their babies at 4 months, for whatever reason, or who chose to FF over BF are made to feel that they are 'bad mums' when so often this is not the case. I think there is a line to be drawn as to when intervention is necessary and when people really do need to back off and let people make the decisions which are best for them and their families within their own individual circumstances.

im very sorry that my use of the 'great big' thumbs up smilie got on your 'goat' but unfortunatly its not any bigger than anyone elses thumbs up smilie!
i dont know about where you live, but here in NI, the thumbs up is a happy, friendly gesture, used as a greeting, and is all positive. i could understand your reaction if id posted instead, but if you take offence at the thumbs up, then thats something you need to address, not me
i can totally answer your point by telling you that i weaned before 6 months, and i formula feed. i dont need any validation that what i do is right, i know its right FOR US, and thats all the validation i need
im not even going to address your point about how sad it is that people are made to feel that they are 'bad mums' as ive already commented on it several times in this thread, and if you are interested you can read back on them.

seriously. im getting more and more confused about how quoting a few lines from a newspaper about a BIG study thats been done, and not even commenting on it seems to have been read as 'anyone who formula feeds is a terrible mother, even worse if they wean a day before 6 months, and everyone needs to entirely live their lives by whats printed in the sun, and god forbid anyone should listen to the advice of their doctor, and as for single young mums, well they should all be sent to a desert island and have their 20 stone giant obese unhealthy mc donalds eating kids taken off them

 

[Eala]

as for single young mums, well they should all be sent to a desert island and have their 20 stone giant obese unhealthy mc donalds eating kids taken off them

I'm sorry, I cba commenting on anything else, but I just have to say that this made me snort tea

Thank you for a much-needed laugh

 

[NIfirsttimer]

sure as long as we can still have a laugh all is good eh?

 

[Lazy Leo]

Ok, my post does start a bit aggresively, that's why I didn't post immediately this thread went up. So I apologise if I've offended you.

First up, the thumbs up sign - ok if it isn't meant as positive reinforcement then I apologise. To me its not a happy friendly greeting, thats a :wave: To give someone the 'thumbs up' is usually to say, 'yes that's right' or 'great, that's right' in my experience. Different places, different meanings. No problem. I described as being a 'great big thumbup smilies' because you posted so many of them. I am well aware that it is no bigger than anyone elses smiley and I think the sarcasm is somewhat unneccessary.

I didn't say you were validating your reasons, rather that I was desperately hoping you were not intending to put others down. It seems I offended you by suggesting this, so apologies for that as well.

I wasn't asking you to comment on my point about feeling sad that people are made to feel bad for taking certain decisions. It was merely an indication of my viewpoint. And a forum is a place where views can be expressed if I am not mistaken - and I don't think I've broken any rules by expressing that view. Again, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular here. The disapproval is far more widespread than BnB.

NIfirsttimer, I do not infer that by posting a link to an interesting article you have by any way implied that anyone who weans a baby before they are 6 months is a bad mum. Indeed, I stated that I hope you were not implicity suggesting that. Perhaps I should have said I didn't believe you were implying that - or else I would have posted sooner. The reason I didn't post sooner is because even though I felt it could be interpreted that way, and it was the way I initially read it, I really didn't think that was your intention.

You merely linked to the article. I haven't re-read the thread, I've been following it over the days but from memory I don't think you have ever made any implication as to whether or not it is right or wrong to wean before 6 months - except I would argue in the use of the thumbsup signal. And I felt that wasn't intentional, and was just simply lost in a black and white world of text with no tone or body language to expand upon. You have now confirmed that you did not mean any offence with that.

My comment was not meant as an attack, merely I wanted to point out that I had taken your post in a certain manner. I then acknowledged that I may in fact have taken it the wrong way.

The remaining two paragraphs related to the ongoing debate within the thread, not your original post.

 

[Foogirl]

as for single young mums, well they should all be sent to a desert island and have their 20 stone giant obese unhealthy mc donalds eating kids taken off them

I'm sorry, I cba commenting on anything else, but I just have to say that this made me snort tea

Thank you for a much-needed laugh

She wasn't serious? Damn I thought it was the Govenment's latest initiative!

 

[Seraphim]

Wow

Whatever happened to taking in a thought, rolling it around your head a little, thinking about how many angles the thing has, and how they sit against your previous knowledge, then just walking away and leaving it at 'interesting'.