Interesting article on vaccinations

[Smonsta]

I know these types of articles normally create a lot of debate but I am not posting this to have a discussion or debate. I am posting it as I am pro-choice and believe every parent has the right to decide what is best for them and their children.

However, with the anti-vaccination movement growing in popularity there are new considerations that are appearing. As I believe everyone should be able to make a fully informed decision by researching all sides I wanted to put this article out there for people to read and to include as part of the consideration set.

This article talks about the wider implications that are now appearing and how your decision can effect not only your family but other families also, often without you realising the impact. I have found myself thinking how would I cope knowing my decision has brought utter sorrow to another family - so it's another aspect to consider.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ing-diseases-a-2nd-life/7007955/?sf24712202=1

Again - I believe everyone has a right to choose and I am not posting this to start a nasty debate on what is "right", but so it can be taken into consideration when we make the decision whether or not to vaccinated our little ones when the time comes.

Please feel free to ad other articles to the thread that you think could also help with reaching an informed decision. Can we please try to stay away from using this thread as a place to air your personal opinions on whether you think anti-vaccination is right or wrong but use it as a way to share helpful information.

 

[purplecupcake]

Sorry to be frank, but what exactly is the point of this thread if you don't want anyone to express their own opinions on the matter? It's impossible to comment on this without having an opinion, especially if you have educated yourself on the matter and know that one side has science and studies to back it up and the other is mere fear driven by anecdotal stories?

 

[Smonsta]

I just wanted to put the article up for people to read so they can consider it when making their decisions. If people want to ask questions or ask where to find more information then that's fine, as I am sure there is a lot of experience in this site. This topic is usually very emotional and I was trying to keep it to informative rather emotional so we could get a collection of information.

What I didn't want to happen, as I have seen happen many times with theses types of threads is posters attacking each other over their personal opinions and which one is right. Hopefully that shouldn't stop the sharing of information and experiences.

I just found this article had an interesting view and just want to post it so others could read it.

Sorry if that isn't a normal post, although this is what I thought this forum was about: support and information sharing.

 

[Myrrh]

information sharing also comes with people replying to the said shared information, and sharing opinions.

And so I will be sharing my opinion.

I will be vaccinating my children, because those diseases ARE still out there. We vaccinate for a reason.

 

[LoveCakes]

In addition to this article I just wanted people to realise that the MMR-Autism link has been completely retracted. This doesn't seem to be nearly as widely publicised as the original false paper.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493753.stm

 

[Smonsta]

I understand that people will have their own opinions about the subject and for the sake of clarity I have edited my original post.

I know personal opinion is a big part of this decision and it will sway what you read etc.

All I was trying to do was post an article and hoped others would also post an article that they found interesting or helpful (like the link to the article about the retracted study on autism links that LoveCakes posted) rather than just posting what you are doing as that is when the debate can turn to right and wrong and gets nasty - and often doesn't provide any useful information.

 

[LoveCakes]

Also worth a read

https://www.theonion.com/articles/the-pros-and-cons-of-vaccinating-children,35731/?ref=auto

 

[tryfor2]

Thanks for posting these, ladies. Information is a good thing. No matter what your decision (on anything), you want to be informed.

 

[staralfur]

I read this one today and thought it was pretty good:
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

 

[Smonsta]

Thanks Staralfur - I was just about to post that one also.

 

[Tiff]

I read this one today and thought it was pretty good:
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

I loved this one! I saw a counter to it though, I think its called "Dear parents, ARE you being lied to?"

and in it it talks about Dr Wakefield, that vaccines MAY cause Autism (they don't) and then goes on to say that we shouldn't have bashed him so quickly.

It was such a piece of garbage read.

 

[Miss_Cellany]

This one came up on my Facebook feed a couple of days ago.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/vaccinations/why-you-should-immunise-your-children/

 

[pinkpolkadot]

Personally I am not a big fan of emotive articles that try to sway with tragic stories on either side of the fence.

I am not anti vax, and DD has had all her recommended jabs aside from flu but I do think there is a lot to learn about how vaccinations affect the system and especially their long term effects.

This one came up on my Facebook feed a couple of days ago.

https://www.mamamia.com.au/vaccinations/why-you-should-immunise-your-children/

There is an intersting article here explaining that people who have had one version of the whooping cough vaccine can still pass on the disease but not show or suffer and symptoms which may be even more worrying since they are unaware they are contageous.

https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm

 

[Noodlebear]

I'm struggling to post without starting the debate you don't seem to want as I feel VERY strongly about this

I just wanted to address the above comment about the whooping cough. Those who are most at risk are young babies as they can't be vaccinated - there is now a vaccine available to pregnant women in the UK to protect them. It is also contagious before the symptoms appear anyway which is more than likely how it was passed around so much in the first place so the issue of not knowing that you are contagious is unfortunately already present. The best way to protect our children is to make sure that they are vaccinated. For those that can't be vaccinated it's important to make sure that those around them are as they are relying on herd immunity to protect them.

 

[Sarahkka]

We are having outbreaks right, left, and centre in North America of measles and whooping cough in particular. It is no accident that the outbreaks are all linked to areas with low vaccination rates. Quite frankly, I am running out of patience for polite debate on this. However, I think that discussion has a better chance of challenging the ignorance and pseudo-science perpetrated by the anti-vax movement. I just hope people start to develop a critical faculty on this before we face a serious public health crisis.
I am including a quote, but the link to the whole article is at the bottom.

Outbreaks of measles, whooping cough and mumps are being reported across Canada and into the United States. The thing is, these diseases are preventable with vaccines.
In the past month alone, Alberta dealt with another whooping cough outbreak. In B.C. the Fraser Valley has seen measles cases rise to more than 300. Meanwhile, pockets of cases have broken out in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario.
Doctors are pointing to one culprit: a steadily growing anti-vaccination movement.
“When people say some of this might be related to low vaccine rates among people, that’s a huge understatement,” Dr. Gerald Evans, a Queen’s University medicine professor and director of infection control at Kingston General Hospital, told Global News.
“It’s all because of vaccination rates falling. It’s 100 per cent blamed on the fact that people aren’t getting vaccinated,” Evans said.

https://globalnews.ca/news/1260577/vaccination-myths-debunked/

 

[Sarahkka]

I read this one today and thought it was pretty good:
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

I loved this one! I saw a counter to it though, I think its called "Dear parents, ARE you being lied to?"

and in it it talks about Dr Wakefield, that vaccines MAY cause Autism (they don't) and then goes on to say that we shouldn't have bashed him so quickly.

It was such a piece of garbage read.

A friend of mine sent me this on Wakefield:
https://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.ca/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html
I know it's in an unusual format, but it gives some details on just what a sleaze bag Wakefield was.

 

[pinkpolkadot]

I'm struggling to post without starting the debate you don't seem to want as I feel VERY strongly about this

I just wanted to address the above comment about the whooping cough. Those who are most at risk are young babies as they can't be vaccinated - there is now a vaccine available to pregnant women in the UK to protect them. It is also contagious before the symptoms appear anyway which is more than likely how it was passed around so much in the first place so the issue of not knowing that you are contagious is unfortunately already present. The best way to protect our children is to make sure that they are vaccinated. For those that can't be vaccinated it's important to make sure that those around them are as they are relying on heard immunity to protect them.

I agree with the premise of herd immunity but the article (which by the way is on the FDA website) clearly states that vaccine in question may not stop the spread of whooping cough, only the symptoms and I think it's very important to be aware of this.

I just wanted to point out it is not always as clear cut as these emotive articles make out. In fact it could be quite dangerous that people are going around visiting babies etc... thinking they are immune when they could be passing it on without even knowing they are carrying it.

Yes it is true you will be contagious for a few days to a week before symptoms present but the study suggests it can be spread for up to 6 weeks with no symptoms with the vax.

Sorry OP, too hard a topic not to discuss

 

[Noodlebear]

It'd only be a risk to anyone who hadn't been vaccinated but I feel that takes us full circle to the fact that the illness itself is contagious even before you're symptomatic. I feel it's actually safer for people to have the vaccine because you know that you've had it! You can stay away from those who may be at risk. Far better than carrying the bacteria without having any idea and then not only would you come down with a horrible illness but could unknowingly pass it on. I fully believe that's another massive plus for the vaccine.
There would be no need for the emotive articles if the anti-vax nonsense wasn't becoming more popular and putting people at risk.

I've just taken this from the NHS website too -
'Is whooping cough vaccination in pregnancy working?

Yes, it is. During 2012, 14 babies died from whooping cough before they could be protected by the vaccination programme, but there were only two infant deaths from whooping cough in 2013 in babies whose mothers had not been vaccinated.' Lives are being saved.

 

[Tiff]

I read this one today and thought it was pretty good:
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

I loved this one! I saw a counter to it though, I think its called "Dear parents, ARE you being lied to?"

and in it it talks about Dr Wakefield, that vaccines MAY cause Autism (they don't) and then goes on to say that we shouldn't have bashed him so quickly.

It was such a piece of garbage read.

A friend of mine sent me this on Wakefield:
https://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.ca/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html
I know it's in an unusual format, but it gives some details on just what a sleaze bag Wakefield was.

That was brilliant!

 

[pinkpolkadot]

It'd only be a risk to anyone who hadn't been vaccinated but I feel that takes us full circle to the fact that the illness itself is contagious even before you're symptomatic. I feel it's actually safer for people to have the vaccine because you know that you've had it! You can stay away from those who may be at risk. Far better than carrying the bacteria without having any idea and then not only would you come down with a horrible illness but could unknowingly pass it on. I fully believe that's another massive plus for the vaccine.
There would be no need for the emotive articles if the anti-vax nonsense wasn't becoming more popular and putting people at risk.

I've just taken this from the NHS website too -
'Is whooping cough vaccination in pregnancy working?

Yes, it is. During 2012, 14 babies died from whooping cough before they could be protected by the vaccination programme, but there were only two infant deaths from whooping cough in 2013 in babies whose mothers had not been vaccinated.' Lives are being saved.

RE bold part: yes totally agree, and this is the segment of people I was discussing in reference the facebook article and herd immunity.

The problem is that most people seem unaware of this new study so people are having the vax and thinking they are safe and can't spread WC when in fact it looks likely they can. Unless I am mistaken, people are not being advised of this. The period of being contagious without symptoms may be 6 times longer with the vax.

I also find it quite alarming that this info is just emerging after the vax has been used since the 90's. I would have hoped this would be an important part of the initial testing but evidently it was not.

As this is (was intended anyway ) to be a post about info sharing I thought it quite an important piece of info to share.

There are emotive stories on both sides of the fence, I prefer to avoid them myself and stick to the facts as it is easy to see how they cloud judgement either way.

I was not disputing the vax during pregnancy which is thought to pass on some immunity to the baby, that is a separate issue. But re the NHS stats there was an WC epidemic in 2012 (more than 10 times number of cases as in recent years), WC is a cyclical disease peaking every 3-4 years so these figures are quite misleading, I am disappointed the NHS has used them to influence.

I guess what it comes down to is just wanting clear, reliable and unbiased info on vaccination upon which we can all base our decisions, I think that is what we all want