James Bulger

[KAT1984]

I think if they hadn't had such luxuaries and priviledges, people wouldn't be (quite) as angry. Thats what angers people, they did such a shocking, appauling crime and got given trips out to football matches etc, that isnt rehabilitation to me, thats reward.

Yes i think the same, maybe if they weren't given rewards then people wouldn't be so angry and it would not be in the papers etc as much. We the tax payers payed for their days out and yet they killed a child. That is just my way of thinking and it makes me feel sick.

 

[Tasha]

I know you are entitled to your opinion, I have (hopefully) been respectful of that. I dont think I have been rude nor said you are wrong in your opinions, just giving mine and why I feel the way I do. I cant put myself in James' parents shoes, because I simply can not imagine what they went through, nor do I want to. Nor do I know what I would want to happen to them if it were my child. I know to truly put yourself in that place you have to of lived it, and I havent so to I would do this or I wouldnt do that, doesnt feel right to me.

I too know they were found guilty of torturing and murdering him but to me all the things that were said and done since, whether they showed remorse etc, it matters to me where I heard it. I could easily say oh I heard such and such, but it doesnt make it true. People are angry about what happened meaning that the game of chinese whispers that gets played means that things are likely to get exagerated.

You misunderstood what I said about Thompson not commiting another crime. I meant that a lot of people say Venables commited another crime that is exactly why they shouldnt of been released, but it isnt like one in four havent, it is a case of 50/50 and so to base it solely ob Venables purely because it supports the agenda is wrong.

To me anyone who tortures or murders anyone is as bad as each other so we will never agree on your last statement, so I think we need to just agree to disagree on that.

 

[KAT1984]

I know you are entitled to your opinion, I have (hopefully) been respectful of that. I dont think I have been rude nor said you are wrong in your opinions, just giving mine and why I feel the way I do. I cant put myself in James' parents shoes, because I simply can not imagine what they went through, nor do I want to. Nor do I know what I would want to happen to them if it were my child. I know to truly put yourself in that place you have to of lived it, and I havent so to I would do this or I wouldnt do that, doesnt feel right to me.

I too know they were found guilty of torturing and murdering him but to me all the things that were said and done since, whether they showed remorse etc, it matters to me where I heard it. I could easily say oh I heard such and such, but it doesnt make it true. People are angry about what happened meaning that the game of chinese whispers that gets played means that things are likely to get exagerated.

You misunderstood what I said about Thompson not commiting another crime. I meant that a lot of people say Venables commited another crime that is exactly why they shouldnt of been released, but it isnt like one in four havent, it is a case of 50/50 and so to base it solely ob Venables purely because it supports the agenda is wrong.

To me anyone who tortures or murders anyone is as bad as each other so we will never agree on your last statement, so I think we need to just agree to disagree on that.

No you have not been rude or anything and i hope that i have not been to you i think we both just have very different opinions on the matter i respect yours but i find it very hard to grasp how someone can be forgiven for doing what they done. But that is just me and my way of thinking.

I think more so after having my daughter who is two the thought of anything happening to her would destroy me so like i say i have a lot of respect for James's parents especially his mother maybe her using the press is her way of dealing with it.

If Venables get released again what does that say to the world though you go kill a baby get out after 8 years then get a new identity a new life and then you get caught for offenses relating to children again as the saying goes fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Maybe because i am from Liverpool and still live here and often walk under that bridge it hits home a lot harder and i don't think we will ever agree on this matter but at least we have aired our views and respected each other opinions.

 

[Tasha]

I am glad you dont think I've been rude or disrespectful, I dont think you have either.

I have mentioned before that it does worry me that when Venables gets out he may go on to commit other crimes, not just because he has commited two already but because he may need to be in there. It wouldnt be unusual to have that dependency on the system after spending your childhood in a young offenders.

 

[Piper84]

You properly didn't mean this but I find that comment very offensive being from Liverpool and hating the sun!!!!!!!!!! After the lies it has published about Liverpool believe me when you refer to something being like the SUN I would never take it as a compliment!

Everything i have said there did not come out of the sun as i do not read that paper most of it came from James' parents and is public knowledge in their campaign for justice for James. You basically think everything I have said there are lies referring what I have said to the SUN as we all know what they say never to believe.
I wish it wasn’t but it is.

Instead of the Sun I could have said the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Sport, all of them are as bad as each other, but I wish more people would get worked up about the lies they are regularly told and the misery spread by the tabloids and not just when they are directly affected by it.

Your source of information is Jamie Bulger's parents. That's fine, but remember they are very vulnerable to false information designed to get a reaction and are (naturally) extremely emotionally involved. They are fed sensationalist, possibly untrue but definitely exaggerated tidbits of information about the boys who killed their toddler in the most unimaginably cruel way possible. This is regularly exploited by a number of media outlets and I don't find it a good way to get information about the case.

I'm glad the culprits got an education and that people tried to rehabilitate them by treating them normally. Can you imagine the danger they'd have posed if they were treated as some people wish they'd been?

If Venables get released again what does that say to the world though you go kill a baby get out after 8 years then get a new identity a new life and then you get caught for offenses relating to children again as the saying goes fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

As I mentioned earlier on in the thread, in most other countries they would not have been tried, much less as adults, as they would be considered too young. In fact you could speculate that he was institutionalised when he committed the second crime, which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been incarcerated from 10-18. The criminal acts he commits now may even be because of the way the crime was dealt with.

 

[KAT1984]

You properly didn't mean this but I find that comment very offensive being from Liverpool and hating the sun!!!!!!!!!! After the lies it has published about Liverpool believe me when you refer to something being like the SUN I would never take it as a compliment!

Everything i have said there did not come out of the sun as i do not read that paper most of it came from James' parents and is public knowledge in their campaign for justice for James. You basically think everything I have said there are lies referring what I have said to the SUN as we all know what they say never to believe.
I wish it wasn’t but it is.

Instead of the Sun I could have said the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Sport, all of them are as bad as each other[/B][/B][/B], but I wish more people would get worked up about the lies they are regularly told and the misery spread by the tabloids and not just when they are directly affected by it.

Your source of information is Jamie Bulger's parents. That's fine, but remember they are very vulnerable to false information designed to get a reaction and are (naturally) extremely emotionally involved. They are fed sensationalist, possibly untrue but definitely exaggerated tidbits of information about the boys who killed their toddler in the most unimaginably cruel way possible. This is regularly exploited by a number of media outlets and I don't find it a good way to get information about the case.

I'm glad the culprits got an education and that people tried to rehabilitate them by treating them normally. Can you imagine the danger they'd have posed if they were treated as some people wish they'd been?

If Venables get released again what does that say to the world though you go kill a baby get out after 8 years then get a new identity a new life and then you get caught for offenses relating to children again as the saying goes fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

As I mentioned earlier on in the thread, in most other countries they would not have been tried, much less as adults, as they would be considered too young. In fact you could speculate that he was institutionalised when he committed the second crime, which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been incarcerated from 10-18. The criminal acts he commits now may even be because of the way the crime was dealt with.

I know that is why i said you properly didn't mean it. If i am honest i don't read newspapers as they just depress me. But in my family we do not buy or read anything to do with the Sun be it a sister paper or whatever. I know not to believe everything written in papers.

Like i have said i cannot see past what them two monsters did to that baby and if i am wrong for that then so be it. In most other countries they may not of even be tried, but we live in England and the vile act happened here so it does not matter what happens in other countries just as people don't agree with people as young as 6 getting tried in the usa i don't agree with kids getting off for murdering a baby.

No the second crime may not of been committed if he hadn't of killed a baby, you cannot fault the courts for putting them away for killing a baby (you can maybe fault the way they went about it but not putting away two murders)

 

[Piper84]

If only everyone could see the Scum for what it is and not just the people of Liverpool.

I can't get past the cruelty of the crime either, which is why I try not to think about it. But I also realise that this kind of atrocity is perpetrated somewhere every day, and focusing on one event doesn't help future victims, but looking at all of the facts surrounding it may help in preventing it happening again.

 

[pinkribbon]

I feel really unsettled just reading responses on this thread and thinking about what happened

I watched that programme with trevor McDonald on death row. I agree with the comment someone made 'life should be life'

 

[BabyJayne]

Tasha - I completely agree with everything you have said.

It's so hard, this case in particular. And if I were James Bulger's mother I would obviously be saying very very different things. But looking at the whole sorry situation with the emotion removed, I think it was right that the boys were given new identities. I think it was right that they were given the chance to undergo rehabilitation.

There cannot be one rule for one and one rule for another. As tragic and horrific as the killing of that gorgeous little boy was, who is to say that particular murder should be treated differently to any other in the UK.

I think if you subscribe to the justice system, you have to accept that the rehabilitation of offenders is at least one of the aims. I think at 10-years-old they were the most susceptible to change and to education. I think there would be more chance of rehabilitation of a 10 year old than a 30 year old, and that's what the system attempted to do. It seems it worked with one, and didn't work with another. Does that mean it should be forever used as a reason NOT to do it - because it didn't work with one of them, or as a reason TO do it, because it did work?

Does anyone care so much about Mary Bell?

 

[Tasha]

Thank you BabyJayne. Glad I made some sense to someone I know I came across as harsh sounding, it isnt because I dont care because I really do. It is because I dont believe emotion should come into the justice system at all.

The last paragraph (aside from the Mary Bell bit), the last lines is exactly what I was trying to say, we can say oh Venables commited another crime that is why they should never of gotten another chance but equally we could say it the other way.

I have never heard of Mary Bell tbh, I am going to read up on it

 

[bubbles123]

Mary Bell killed 2 children in the 60's I think. She was about the same age as Venables and Thompson. No, she didn't attract much attention but I think that was because of the time. There was no internet etc to keep it in the public mind. Also, unfortunately, it was also around the time of several other tragic cases such as the Moors Murders and the Mason family and they took attention away from her as well.

 

[BabyJayne]

That's right Bubbles. She killed two young children (aged three and four) when she was aged 10/11. She served 12 years, being released aged 23. She was released with a new identity, went on the have a daughter and is now reportedly a grandmother.

She was notorious at the time - and when she was released. But I don't think she has reoffended.

I just wonder why people aren't as up in arms about her? I've not heard one person say how disgusting it is that she's walking the streets. But why not? It's the same type of thing, (only she killed two) only with less media attention. So, should she be talked about in the same manner as Venebles and Thompson?

 

[LoraLoo]

That's right Bubbles. She killed two young children (aged three and four) when she was aged 10/11. She served 12 years, being released aged 23. She was released with a new identity, went on the have a daughter and is now reportedly a grandmother.

She was notorious at the time - and when she was released. But I don't think she has reoffended.

I just wonder why people aren't as up in arms about her? I've heard one person say how disgusting it is that she's walking the streets. But why not? It's the same type of thing, (only she killed two) only with less media attention. So, should she be talked about in the same manner as Venebles and Thompson?

Probably because Thomson and Venables are our generation. Im sure if you started a thread on Mary Bell and provided a link with information people would have the exact same view.

 

[Canadiana]

It is such a very sad story and I remember it well, even though I'm in Canada. I'm pretty sure it made huge international news, because I remember it and I was 10 years old at the time.

Author Elizabeth George wrote a book very loosely based on this. It was a great book. The details are awful and I feel sad to this very day that all those details needed to be available to the public. What did that accomplish?

James had no dignity in death and his memory continues to be undignified in my opinion because any person can know any detail of what happened to his tiny body.

It's such a catch 22, the poster who said they wouldn't even have been charged elsewhere is right. We are lucky they got the time they did.

I also can't help but play devil's advocate and wonder how the boys parents must have felt. I remember reading one of the boys parents was abusive but can't remember if they all were. Everyone on this thread (or any people that discuss the thread in general) always picture James as their child and that is why they are so angry. But what if one of the 10 year olds was yours? Woudl you feel the same? Would you want them in jail forever? Violence and not knowing right from wrong is sometimes nature, not always nurture, and sadly not always predictable. No one wins either way, it's just very very sad.

 

[BabyJayne]

That's right Bubbles. She killed two young children (aged three and four) when she was aged 10/11. She served 12 years, being released aged 23. She was released with a new identity, went on the have a daughter and is now reportedly a grandmother.

She was notorious at the time - and when she was released. But I don't think she has reoffended.

I just wonder why people aren't as up in arms about her? I've heard one person say how disgusting it is that she's walking the streets. But why not? It's the same type of thing, (only she killed two) only with less media attention. So, should she be talked about in the same manner as Venebles and Thompson?

Probably because Thomson and Venables are our generation. Im sure if you started a thread on Mary Bell and provided a link with information people would have the exact same view.

That's kind of my point - people don't seem to look for any information on what's happened before, what's happened since, has it worked etc etc. It's a very emotive and emotional view that's taken in relation to the Bulger killers, rather than on what society should or could do as a whole.

 

[Tasha]

It is such a very sad story and I remember it well, even though I'm in Canada. I'm pretty sure it made huge international news, because I remember it and I was 10 years old at the time.

Author Elizabeth George wrote a book very loosely based on this. It was a great book. The details are awful and I feel sad to this very day that all those details needed to be available to the public. What did that accomplish?

James had no dignity in death and his memory continues to be undignified in my opinion because any person can know any detail of what happened to his tiny body.

It's such a catch 22, the poster who said they wouldn't even have been charged elsewhere is right. We are lucky they got the time they did.

I also can't help but play devil's advocate and wonder how the boys parents must have felt. I remember reading one of the boys parents was abusive but can't remember if they all were. Everyone on this thread (or any people that discuss the thread in general) always picture James as their child and that is why they are so angry. But what if one of the 10 year olds was yours? Woudl you feel the same? Would you want them in jail forever? Violence and not knowing right from wrong is sometimes nature, not always nurture, and sadly not always predictable. No one wins either way, it's just very very sad.

Great post. And the last bit is so true, even I've never thought what if my child did that. I know many people will say that they would disown, want them punished etc but what we would truly feel is different to what we think we would.

 

[Tiff]

^ I agree. Its hard to think about what happened to him and be righteously angry about it... but what about the parents of the kids who did it?

I remember watching a documentary on the Columbine shooting and the hate mail/death threats that the parents of the teens who did it received. Its an uncomfortable thought for sure.

 

[Canadiana]

I just couldn't imagine the heartbreak and then the fact that every one in the world blames you for raising the child who did it. I have sympathy for everyone in the situation, unless they are abusers of course.

And Tasha it's so true most would say they would disown the child but you simply don't know what you will do until you are in that position and are forced to make a decision. That's why you see older ladies on those prison shows visiting their kids that are murderers. We don't get how they can stand behind them, but then again it's your CHILD. So sad.