Messed up factoid

[robinator]

The United States spends an average of $40,000 per year to incarcerate each prison inmate, and an average of $8,000 per year to educate each elementary school student.

It was mentioned in John Grisham's latest novel; I fact checked and it appears to be accurate.

 

[NellyLou]

Horrible isn't it!? Do inmates have to work in any way? I think they should and pay their way to stay in prison.

 

[robinator]

They have to have jobs in prison, but make a ridiculous amount of money, like 30 cents an hour. As far as I know, a percentage of their "earnings", plus a percentage of any money sent to them, is confiscated as part of their, erm, room and board.....

 

[Andypanda6570]

I think that is really sad and completely ludicrous

 

[Ozzieshunni]

This is why I'm a firm believer in rehabilitation programs for those that are convicted of lesser crimes, like drug offenses.

Drug treatment courts have proven effective worldwide, yet the USA won't give them funding. My dad was a bailiff in one for about four years and then they lost funding. The person convicted would have the option to sign a contract, undergo drug testing, get a job, and maintain a clean record for the duration of their time with the program. It worked! People would thank my dad for helping and supporting them. If they broke the contract, they would go to jail.

 

[Foogirl]

The same happens here. It's actually cheaper to send youth offenders to a top fee paying school than it is to incarcerate them. And I'd argue it's better rehabilitation too.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I have no problem with low level offenders, rehabilitation is the key, but I think she is talking about criminals that may never get out?

 

[Foogirl]

I think the levels of cost are similar regardless of the crime. The only difference is whether it represents better value for money. 40k to keep a serial killer off the streets might seem worth it, 40k to keep a vandal off the streets might not be.

I do wonder about the comparison being made though. In some ways it doesn't really matter that they spend more on prisoners than they do on educating children, as long as both sums equal a decent return for the cost. So, the real question is, are children being underfunded in education, or does 8k do the job well. Or are we overspending on prisoners and if so, what is that additional money being spent on.

 

[robinator]

Those are great questions, Foogirl. Would it make a difference if more were to be spent on education, thus creating more opportunities when kids reach adulthood. Would those opportunities be more likely to keep people from commmiting the crimes which send them to jail?

I do believe the costs of incarceration are similar regardless of the offense and type of facility. Standard things need to be covered across the board: food, utilities, prisoner health care, staffing, ammo, weapons, bedding, cleaning supplies. Then there are also classroom opportunities, so outside teachers and books/materials need to be paid for. There are transportation costs: vehicles, fuel, additional guards, sometimes airplane usage (which is pricey). Plus any rehabilitation programs. Then there is the salaries of the parole board, which I'd assume is paid by the prison system (don't know for sure)?

Some of the super-low security facilities, called "camps", also provide their inmates with daily newpapers from all over the nation. Hell, I don't even have one newspaper subscription!!

 

[robinator]

There are approximately 2.5 million prisoners in the US. Multiply by $40,000 and you have $100,000,000,000. What is that, a hundred billion? A shitload of zeroes each year.

There are approximately (2011-2012 school year numbers) 55.5 million kids, K-12 in the US. If we take half that number, that's about 30 million elementary students. At $8,000 a year, thats $240,000,000,000. 2.5 times the amount spent on prisoners. Nice to know our kids are getting more overall, but with it spread so thinly it's not much.

 

[Foogirl]

But does the education system suffer because of it, or is it generally a decent system?

Also, I'm not sure that spending more on education would lead to spending less on incarceration. Is lack of education the only thing leading to people committing crime? There are probably millions of people with less education who manage to get through life without committing a crime. Is the problem not more of a social one?

 

[Jaylynne]

i'm sorry but that's ridiculous. Prison isn't supposed to be pretty. Why should someone who committed a crime get to watch cable, get free healthcare and free room and board? Many of the taxpayers don't even have the luxury of even affording healthcare.

 

[robinator]

Of course lack of education isn't the only reason most people end up committing crimes. But for some it is. Those people may have had a chance at greater opportunity. I'm not saying education never would have caused those people to make the ultimate choices they did, but we will never know if it could have made a difference.

I think the education system absolutely suffers; overcrowded classrooms means little to no one-on-one time with the teacher and kids all going at the same pace regardless of their needs; fewer classroom materials (unless teacher pays out of pocket, which many do). Also many school programs are cut due to lack of funding, such as some sports, music and languages.

 

[Natsku]

The amount the US spends on education isn't low though, its a fair bit higher than what many other countries spend, its probably a problem of how they allocate that funding.

And it should be no surprise that it costs a lot, lot more to incarcerate a prisoner, there's so much expenses involved! But definitely too much money is spent, because they lock too many people up. I really think prison should be reserved for violent offenders and offenders who violate the conditions of a non-custodial sentence.

 

[robinator]

The amount the US spends on education isn't low though, its a fair bit higher than what many other countries spend, its probably a problem of how they allocate that funding.

And it should be no surprise that it costs a lot, lot more to incarcerate a prisoner, there's so much expenses involved! But definitely too much money is spent, because they lock too many people up. I really think prison should be reserved for violent offenders and offenders who violate the conditions of a non-custodial sentence.

Are you talking about the per child amount, or the overall budget? If it's the overall budget, then it is probably higher, but we're also talking 30 million elementary kids to educate.

Should white collar criminals, such as those who screw others out of millions of dollars, not be locked up? What should their punishment be?

 

[Natsku]

The amount the US spends on education isn't low though, its a fair bit higher than what many other countries spend, its probably a problem of how they allocate that funding.

And it should be no surprise that it costs a lot, lot more to incarcerate a prisoner, there's so much expenses involved! But definitely too much money is spent, because they lock too many people up. I really think prison should be reserved for violent offenders and offenders who violate the conditions of a non-custodial sentence.

Are you talking about the per child amount, or the overall budget? If it's the overall budget, then it is probably higher, but we're also talking 30 million elementary kids to educate.

Should white collar criminals, such as those who screw others out of millions of dollars, not be locked up? What should their punishment be?

Per child https://rossieronline.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

Hmm actually I'm kinda torn on white collar criminals, maybe have money taken from their salary until the money they swindled is repaid or they die, whichever comes sooner. But thats not really a possible solution I guess. Large fines and community service would probably be most appropriate.

 

[robinator]

Eesh. Wow. That's a lot of money! But, for example in Australia, they spend 42 billion but only have 5 million school aged kids. That works out to $8,400 per student, so it's still on par with the US. UK numbers work out to about $12,000 per child. (these numbers include K-12 ages)

I don't agree with fines and/or community service for white collar crimes simply because it seems like a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile, they still get to live at home and enjoy all their usual luxuries as if they had never committed a crime.

On the other hand, those guys stay in prison while violent offenders are constantly released back to the street due to overcrowding (mainly in jails, though, I think and not actual prisons).

 

[LoraLoo]

Did anyone watch Death Row with Trevor McDonald? I believe that jobs in prison are seen a priviledge rather than a right or something that they all have to do.

 

[Natsku]

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

 

[LoraLoo]

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

I guess its a safety thing too. One of the men it showed was a Barber, I think he had served something like 37 years, had alot more years to go, in fact i think he will die in prison if i remember correctly, for Robbery and kidnap. Seemed a very excessive sentance to me but guess thats a completely different debate altogether!