Messed up factoid

[robinator]

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

Some prisons do this already: there is one outside Salem, OR, which makes jeans called Prison Blues. One in Idaho manufactures furniture.

 

[Natsku]

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

I guess its a safety thing too. One of the men it showed was a Barber, I think he had served something like 37 years, had alot more years to go, in fact i think he will die in prison if i remember correctly, for Robbery and kidnap. Seemed a very excessive sentance to me but guess thats a completely different debate altogether!

That does seem very excessive! But they do seem to use excessive sentences in the US, well ridiculous sentences like a hundred years, seems so crazy to me.

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

Some prisons do this already: there is one outside Salem, OR, which makes jeans called Prison Blues. One in Idaho manufactures furniture.

They should get more prisons doing that

 

[robinator]

They probably do, those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head

 

[LoraLoo]

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

I guess its a safety thing too. One of the men it showed was a Barber, I think he had served something like 37 years, had alot more years to go, in fact i think he will die in prison if i remember correctly, for Robbery and kidnap. Seemed a very excessive sentance to me but guess thats a completely different debate altogether!

That does seem very excessive! But they do seem to use excessive sentences in the US, well ridiculous sentences like a hundred years, seems so crazy to me.

They ought to all be made to work in prison (well work or education), producing things to be sold outside of prison and the money made from the things sold will be their wages, with a considerable amount taken out for "room and board"

Some prisons do this already: there is one outside Salem, OR, which makes jeans called Prison Blues. One in Idaho manufactures furniture.

They should get more prisons doing that

I actually felt sorry for him. Nobody shoot me for saying that! Yes it was wrong. It was a robbery gone wrong, he ended up hijacking a car which had passengers hence the kidnap charge. I think the prison was in Indiana.

 

[robinator]

It would have been okay to hijack a car if there hadnt been passengers? Sorry, but if he hadnt made the choice to steal in the first place, it never would have snowballed into what it did.

And now my tax dollars go to supporting him.

 

[LoraLoo]

It would have been okay to hijack a car if there hadnt been passengers? Sorry, but if he hadnt made the choice to steal in the first place, it never would have snowballed into what it did.

And now my tax dollars go to supporting him.

Where did i say any of it was ok? I said the sentance was excessive. Exactly, he shouldnt still be in prison imo, therefore you wouldnt still be supporting him.

 

[robinator]

I guess kidnapping is kidnapping, regardless of intent. If that's what the going rate is, then I'd say its fair.

If he hadn't done it, I'd be supporting someone else with questionable judgement in his place.

But you're correct, you didn't say you thought it was okay.

 

[LoraLoo]

I guess kidnapping is kidnapping, regardless of intent. If that's what the going rate is, then I'd say its fair.

But you're correct, you didn't say you thought it was okay.

I suppose im comparing it to the 'going rate' in the UK, where most people dont get anywhere close for even murder

Yes, for murder, life in jail should mean life in jail, but in that case i think he could have been rehabilitated and released and in the proccess saved millions?

 

[robinator]

Does anyone know if the feeding kids/backpacks for kids programs are state sponsored or privately funded?

Wondering if that's part of the $8000 per head budget or a whole different set of numbers.

 

[Foogirl]

Eesh. Wow. That's a lot of money! But, for example in Australia, they spend 42 billion but only have 5 million school aged kids. That works out to $8,400 per student, so it's still on par with the US. UK numbers work out to about $12,000 per child. (these numbers include K-12 ages)

Your figures differ from those on the link?

 

[robinator]

Eesh. Wow. That's a lot of money! But, for example in Australia, they spend 42 billion but only have 5 million school aged kids. That works out to $8,400 per student, so it's still on par with the US. UK numbers work out to about $12,000 per child. (these numbers include K-12 ages)

Your figures differ from those on the link?

I guess so. I looked up various census info and that's what I came up with. I could be wrong

Even so, the US still spends a shitload more on their inmates than on their kids. A lot of people don't even make $40,000 per year as an income

 

[Foogirl]

It did look like every graph I came across, the US had the highest average spend per pupil of pretty much the rest of the world.

I do agree though 40k seems like a huge amount of money.

I remember watching something about a prison somewhere, and the inmates had won a ruling that the prison had to have cable TV. So the governor installed cable but only showed something like the Disney channel on it.

 

[robinator]

I was wrong. It's even higher in Australia. According to this website, the number of primary and secondary students in Australia is about 4 million.

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/4221.0main+features302011

Dividing that into 42 billion is around $10,000 per child.

I wonder how to accurately figure it out, though, because according to the link, they count people up until 23 years of age as students. And since most college students aren't government sponsored, how does the study include them? Pretty sure they're not including college loans, or the number would be astronomically higher.... Confusing.

 

[robinator]

Does the government pay for universities in the UK/Australia? That would account for the up till 23 age and the lower per-head cost, as it is spread out much more. If they spent the same amount and only spent it on K-12, then the per-child expenditure would be greater. I think I just answered my own question lol

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Those prison shows are not always the best way to gain information.....just sayin. I've been to quite a few prisons on visits for my college classes.

 

[robinator]

It depends on the prison. I read a biography two years ago *bangs head to remember who the hell wrote it*. Anyway, the woman was in the same minimum security joint that Martha Stewart served time in and TV was one of their (many) privileges.

Now it's going to drive me nuts until I figure out who the author is

 

[Foogirl]

In the UK, the government partially funds university places and some students pay top up fees - it depends where in the UK you live. The government also gives grants, childcare and travelling costs to students who qualify for this assistance. But it is also worth noting the figures might be skewed by overseas students from the EU who qualify for free university places in some parts of the UK.

 

[Foogirl]

Also to add, things are further complicated by the use of 6th from colleges which are actually secondary education and not tertiary education. But looking at the institute for fiscal studies paper written in 2011, the spend per pupil aged 3 - 19 is around £5,800

 

[robinator]

That converts to about $9000 per kid. These numbers are confusing lol

The 2011 UK numbers show about 97,000 prisoners and each prisoner also costs the nation 40,000 pounds to incarcerate (63,000 US dollars). https://www.fpe.org.uk/the-cost-of-prisons/

Perhaps the expenditure is standard across the board in first world countries....?

 

[Foogirl]

Well, I was also thinking about using comparison of costs across nations and how it isn't as simple as it might seem. Certainly converting £ to $ is misrepresentative, although it seems logical to do. But the costs of providing the education is affected by local pricing. Salaries are pretty much on a par, but how much does it cost schools in the US to purchase a textbook compared to the UK, for example? A cursory search would indicate a cost of about $6 in the US and about £6 in the UK. The same goes for all other aspects right from school lunches right up to the cost of providing and maintaining a school. I'm certain insurance costs for US schools must be massive, given the propensity for suing people.

I guess the same would be true of prisons, so in some ways, comparisons can be very misleading.