Mums/Moms after Recurrent Losses (MARL) - Come join us!

[hopeful23456]

glad you maybe have some answers Dairy! didn't they check for clotting disorders already though? I'm guessing they did. do you know the name of it?

 

[dairymomma]

hopeful-I was only tested for 8 disorders my dr said were known to cause m/c. Unfortunately for me, my dad neglected to write down the name of it when my uncle called and since he is so ill right now, my dad wasn't sure when he'd talk to his brother next. All I know is this clotting disorder is fairly rare (which is why I may not have been tested for it), it's hereditary, you can have it without having symptoms (my uncle is 51 and this is the first time he's ever had clotting issues), and as my dad put it 'the name is 4 mouthfuls with a breath in between' because it's so long and medical sounding. I also know it's not Factor V. I'm going to try contacting my stepaunt on FB though and see if she can at least get me the name of it so I can check to see if I've been tested but I'm not sure she's on FB.

 

[vietmamsie]

Hi moms - It sure has been quiet around here!

I have a question for you - Our beautiful, spirited, intelligent girl has an aggressive side that has come out in the past month or so. Lucy has had grabby hands and given a few nips here and there starting at about 12 months. We didn't think much of it - sort of chalked it up to her being a bit faster, bigger, and quicker to develop physically than others in her play groups. She is really STRONG and so fast!

Then, earlier this month she had three incidents with biting - hard. It seams to be certain kids that trigger this aggression in her (she has tried to bite the same three kids multiple times in the same play session) and always has to do with a certain toy that SHE thinks is HERS (even though these events have happened either public places or at the other child's home). Now I am just freaked out to have her around other kids. I have to supervise so much, it takes the fun and exploration out of everywhere for her. Some places all is good - like at a play ground where there are older kids for her to toddle around after. But places like Gymboree, it is really hard because she picks on the younger kids.

Sorry for the long ramble - I just feel really bad about it and want her to stop, but don't really know how. We are trying gentle parenting techniques (primary telling her what she did was hurtful, putting a name to her feelings and teaching empathy through seeing her friend cry and talking her through it), but since she isn't there yet with language, it isn't really going through. We have a plan for the next bite (a time out as well as talking through what happened) but I am just too scared to let something happen so am keeping her away from the other kids when we go to playgroups. I hope I am not giving her some sort of complex as well now

Its so hard because Lucy is SUCH an amazing little person. I have no idea where this aggression comes from. She is so sweet and cute 99.9% of the time, then she sees a kid with something that she wants, and something just snaps.

I am also really aggressively treating possible teething pain before we go out (teething gel, amber necklace, frozen clothes to chew on), keeping her snacking while she is playing with others (hard to bite someone if you have a mouthful of muffin), and trying not to go out when she is tired (the bites have all happened either when she hadn't napped, was crazy jet lagged, or when it was way past her bedtime).

Anyone else have advice for biters?

 

[dairymomma]

Viet-honestly to me it sounds like a combination between of the age she is and over-tiredness. Some kids are just like that but I think pretty much every little one goes through a stage where they start figuring out their boundaries. My LO is a hair grabber. Normally this isn't an issue because she's learning texture and grip and all that but she's absolutely vicious about it when she's mad-like "Mom, you didn't get me my bottle fast enough so therefore I'm going to scratch your face/ears/neck/chest with my suddenly appeared extra arms to distract you while I then scrabble for two of the biggest handfuls of your hair I can thread my wee fingers into and then I'm going to YANK with all my tiny might" (which all happens in about 1 second flat so there is absolutely no way to fend off the scratching AND the hair pulling so I get both.) This usually happens when she's SUPER tired or very hungry and it's usually only with me that she does it. My sister had about a year of her middle son just randomly coming up to her and biting whatever he could reach-legs, arms, face, etc. And it was just her. He never bit anyone else but when he'd bite her, it was sometimes hard enough to bruise. They tried so many things-time outs, putting him for a nap, keeping food in his mouth, talking to him, etc and nothing worked. Then he just stopped doing it. Hopefully for you, it's the same thing-just a phase and she'll grow out of it soon.

 

[petitpas]

Hey Viet, it is so hard when our children misbehave and we know they aren't bad natured in general. Especially when they are very small.
I think what you are doing is great and you know your daughter best.

Maybe be a little cautious of not paying too much positive attention as it can almost act as a reward: I bite someone and mummy comes over, gives me one on one time, gentle talking and maybe even a cuddle! Whooppee, let's do it again!
Time out sounds like a good option , as does cutting your losses and leaving, especially if she is tired.

My son has been more on the receiving end of mine mine mine bullying. He gets especially upset if the bullying child seems to get away with what they are doing. I am sure you don't do that but we have often been in a situation where a mother tells her child off for taking something away from my son and then after the telling off lets them keep the toy! Or sometimes the parent just says let them settle it amongst themselves. That is the worst! We have one friend like that and my son no longer wants to go there for play dates. I don't blame him! So from the other side, I am really pleased you are doing something about the biting when it happens. You are setting a good foundation for your daughter to know her boundaries and I am sure the message will get through soon. From what I've seen biting is usually a temporary phase.

 

[ginny83]

Oh Viet - I know exactly what you're going through.. in fact I'm pretty sure I wrote an almost exact same post as yours somewhere on here when DS1 was the same age as your little one.

For us it was a combination of him being excited and the other kids being in his close proximity. So he would't go chasing kids around to bite them, but if he was say climbing through a tunnel or something and getting excited from having fun and there was another kid climbing very close to him - that would be a perfect recipe for biting. He would also bite us when he got very excited too.

I remember crying my eyes out after a visit to a shopping centre playarea because he climbed inside this frame covered with a cargo net thing... then after a couple of minutes a little girl joined him and as she crawls past him he bit her (not hard but still). However she didn't move, she just started crying and I could see DS going back for more acting like it was a game. Meanwhile I was panicking trying to figure out how to get him out of it and saying sorry profusely to the girl's parents. The mother was giving me the most horrible looks and I just feel like the worst mother in the world. Luckily I was able to reach in and kinda shove him away from her until she was coaxed to come out.

Good news is that it turned out just to be a phase that lasted a couple of months - he's a 100% normal, happy little 4 year old now with lots of friends and knows how to play nicely with other kids etc. Also once we got past the phase I can't even think of a time he's even gone to bite anyone.

Some things that I did was make sure that I gave attention to the victim not to him. I would watch him like a hawk when he was playing close with other kids and if he looked like he was going to bite I would tell him NO BITING in a very firm voice and move him away to play separately. Same with if he bit us or went to bite us - I would stop all playing with him say no and walk away. He got the message soon enough that no one was going to play with him if he bit. Also, knowing that him being over excited was his trigger - I'd be extra cautious during those times and try and calm him down if he was looking like he was going to be at the point where he didn't know what to do will all those excitement feelings.

We didn't do time outs with him at that age - but to me separating him from where the fun playing was going on was like a mild version of time out. A bit like time out from attention/fun

 

[dancareoi]

Viet, I've never had issues with biting.

However, we did have an issue with our eldest DS when he was around 2. He was our only child then and had our full attention, but anytime we took him anywhere where there were other kids we had to watch him like a hawk as he used to push the other kids over. It got to a point where we couldn't let him go near others!

He gradually grew out of it and is actually now a very placid person and nothing like the little boy he used to be.

It's hard not to worry about it, but it sounds like you are trying to lead her down the right path. Gradually she will become aware of the difference between right and wrong and will grow out of it.

The joys of parenting!!

 

[vietmamsie]

Thank you! I knew you guys would have great advice for me! I love this forum for all you wonderful experienced moms!

petitpas - thats for the perceptive on the OTHER SIDE - it is very important that the moms of the babies my daughter is bullying/biting see that I am doing something. I would hate to lose mom friends due to an aggressive phase. I also think that things should be handled fairly, and even though Lucy might not get what I am doing NOW, she will get it in time.

ginny83 - I am so glad someone else has BEEN THERE! It is not fun, but good to know that I am not alone. Lucy was biting me (mostly while nursing) but I was able to put a stop to it by stopping nursing and walking away. She was very sad and cried A LOT. It stopped the behavior after a few times. The problem is that I just don't want to make a scene in public, you know? But maybe I will just have to be harsh a few times for the message to get through. I think removing her from the fun play is the best idea.

dairy momma and dancareoi - hoping it is just a phase. Thanks for the words of encouragement!

 

[wookie130]

We are trying gentle parenting techniques (primary telling her what she did was hurtful, putting a name to her feelings and teaching empathy through seeing her friend cry and talking her through it), but since she isn't there yet with language, it isn't really going through. We have a plan for the next bite (a time out as well as talking through what happened) but I am just too scared to let something happen so am keeping her away from the other kids when we go to playgroups. I hope I am not giving her some sort of complex as well now

Its so hard because Lucy is SUCH an amazing little person. I have no idea where this aggression comes from. She is so sweet and cute 99.9% of the time, then she sees a kid with something that she wants, and something just snaps.

I am also really aggressively treating possible teething pain before we go out (teething gel, amber necklace, frozen clothes to chew on), keeping her snacking while she is playing with others (hard to bite someone if you have a mouthful of muffin), and trying not to go out when she is tired (the bites have all happened either when she hadn't napped, was crazy jet lagged, or when it was way past her bedtime).

Anyone else have advice for biters?

I will tell you right now, if you're being too wordy or doling out too many lengthy explanations on feelings and being to verbose with her, it will truly fall on deaf ears. Toddlers (particularly young ones, such as your baby) require short, to-the-point messages, as that is the language that they can understand. Children this young are very egocentric, and honestly care very little for the feelings of others...not because they're unfeeling or evil, but because at this age, the world truly revolves around THEM, their needs, and they are developmentally incapable of feeling true empathy at this stage.

When she bites, you say, "Uh-oh, no biting, Lucy! Biting hurts! Biting makes friends sad!" And you give her a brief moment of "think time" away from the group, bring her back, and have her try to hug the "victim", or just move on and forget it. Sharing preferred toys and items is another behavior that is not in the repetoire of skills that most toddlers have at this point. My daughter is nearly 2 1/2 years old, and she's still not great about it, and I wouldn't expect her to be.

Honestly, it probably is just a phase. Biting is a very common thing in older babies/young toddlers, and honestly, the less of a big deal you make of it, and the more neutral and calm you are when it happens, the better off you'll both be in the long-run. Reward her with too much social attention, or let her know that it's really naughty, it could take much longer to extinguish!

 

[vietmamsie]

good insight Wookie! Lots of great tips.

 

[dairymomma]

Well, the clotting disorder turned out to be an autoimmune syndrome called antiphospholipid syndrome and unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately? ) for me, I've been tested for it with negative results. However there is some question as to whether or not I've had all the necessary testing to prove I don't have it and my dr didn't clarify what testing he did, just that I'd been previously checked for it. I am trying to hunt down the paper with my full results but no luck so far so I'm going to schedule an appt with the dr soon to talk about things. On my list of discussion points are 1. what are his thoughts on steroids in the first tri and would he be willing to prescribe them to me, 2. getting heparin added to my treatment plan as it's looking more and more likely that I have an unknown clotting issue, and 3. have a full thyroid panel done instead of the TSH check he's only ever done in the past. So still no answers and I'm left feeling like I'm back to square one.

 

[hopeful23456]

dairy - I think you are in the states so you would get lovenox (similar to heparin). I'm surprised with your history they wouldn't put you on that and prednisone before. at least you got answers though!

 

[dairymomma]

Yes I'm in the states but my dr has always refered to it as heparin. I know it's the same thing though. And to be fair, though we've never discussed steroids before, my dr has offered the lovenox/heparin shots with every pregnancy since my 3rd loss but I've always declined because I had been able to make it to term with just a daily baby aspirin. I'm considering the lovenox now though because my bleeds are getting worse, starting earlier and with my uncle's diagnosis, it's just got me thinking. We're also going over the family medical history with a fine tooth comb because of this as there are at least 4 people on my dad's side with clots that we've always attributed to other causes but with this diagnosis, it's got everyone wondering. I know at least 4 people are getting tested within the next few months as a result of this. My uncle is well-versed in RMC testing because he's not only in the medical field but his exwife many many losses too. He suggested I get a full thyroid panel done since I haven't ever had a full check and I seriously consider the blood thinners. He's suspicious I have either something autoimmune that's causing bleeding issues or I'm having implantation issues that an underlying clotting issue is exacerbating. I'm leaning towards the autoimmune thing (nk cells tbh) but we'll see what my dr says when I talk to him.

So much is spinning in my head right now it's hard to think at all...

 

[hopeful23456]

wow, sounds like hereditary stuff for sure. strange, only way I've ever heard of heparin is from the BNB girls in the UK. I think it's just a different molecular weight mix than lovenox or something? maybe not

 

[dairymomma]

Yeah. We've got a bunch of inherited stuff in the family (everything from heart problems to thyroid issues to CF and now this clotting stuff) so in my case, it's more a case of WHEN something shows up not IF. But you may be right on the heparin. Either way, I'm going on a blood thinner stronger than baby aspirin.

 

[dairymomma]

Well, thanks to me doing a bit more research on disorders similar to APS, my dr is convinced that I can get MTHFR testing done. He said current thoughts are that it doesn't affect pregnancy but he'll test me if I want it so the order is going in probably tomorrow. I'm anxiously waiting already.

 

[vietmamsie]

Dairy - sorry for the late response - the diagnosis is a bit over my head and I just haven't had the time I normally do lately to get on here. I am happy that you have some answers and you are making a plan to go from here.

As for Lucy - well, you were all right, it was just a phase! All of the sudden all the aggression and biting just STOPPED. I am still watching her like a hawk, but have been breathing easier the last few weeks. We are back to all of our normal activities, and it seems like most of my mom friends (except for those that I confided in) never even noticed she was being aggressive. Thank you again for all the advise and help!

 

[dairymomma]

Glad to hear Lucy outgrew her aggressive stage.

AFM-still waiting on results but I'm guessing it'll be a few weeks so I'm not too antsy-pantsy yet. And LO has been keeping my mind occupied. She took a rather nasty tumble off our front steps and bunged her knees to the point where we almost needed to run her in to the ER. DH checked LO out right after the fall though (his EMS/EMT training came in AWFULLY handy then...) and we knew she didn't have any obvious breaks. No bruising, minimal swelling, and she's back to about 85% mobility today after the chiropractor adjusted her knees/back/hips. She's likely getting X-rays done on Wednesday just as a precaution. We'll see if the dr feels it's necessary or not but the chiropractor thought it would be a good idea since LO has tenderness in both knees and she's not fully bearing weight on one leg. I think it's a good idea myself and I am going to ask the dr to refer LO for physical therapy while I'm there. She's moving and grooving and meeting milestones on time for most things but her hips have rotated slightly outward (her feet point straight out sideways from her body instead of forward when she stands up) and while regular chiropractic adjustments have helped alot, I feel like she needs more than that now as this pelvis issue is likely affecting some gross motor skills. She can't/won't roll and can't get from a prone position to a sit position without help. Once she's sitting though, she is fine. Even scoots around like her older bro and sis did at her age and is attempting to stand. If we stand her up, she's been fine-not too wobbly, takes a few steps here and there, and loves to walk if she can hold on to Mommy or Daddy's fingers. I'm not overly concerned as she's meeting all other gross motor milestones on time and the dr wasn't concerned when we saw her last but I think LO needs that little bit extra help and physio would really benefit her.

 

[dairymomma]

Quick update: I did indeed test positive for MTHFR. Started my B vitamins and folate a few days ago along with a supplemental drink to help support proper methylation and the difference is amazing. More energy, better sleep patterns, weight is going down (as opposed to going up like it was), less anxious/frustrated, and just generally feeling way better. Hard to believe this is all it took and a wee bit annoyed that my dr wouldn't test for it sooner. But I can't let myself dwell on the 'what ifs' so I'm just looking forward. As for LO, still waiting on the PT referral so I'll call the dr tomorrow to see what's going on with that. There was a mixup with her X-rays because they had her strangely listed under a misspelled name. Not sure why since I double checked her name on all the paperwork I got that day as well as the release forms I signed and it was spelled correctly so I just want to get this PT thing started because I need to know when/where it'll be done.

 

[Radiance]

Hi everyone! I haven't been on here for over a year. After the loss of two sons, three daughters, and two miscarriages I finally had my rainbow baby!! It still feels so unreal! I delivered him prematurely in February.