new child tax credits for 2012!!!!!

[AP]

It never seems to pay to work in our case, it's 6 and half a dozen either way. DH works but only cause we morally believe he should. The world is feked up

 

[LeeLouClare]

I'm probably going to be viewed as a bitch for saying this, but why have a child if you know you can't afford to support them without benefits?

I waited until I was in a financially stable position to have a baby, that meant I had to wait til I was 29. I hated waiting, but imo it was the right thing to do. I couldn't have afforded a baby before then.

Flame me down now!

In an ideal world maybe you would be right but for some people, their circumstances change beyond their control. I never expected I would end up as a single mom on benefits. When I started my family I was married and had a good job but now my husband has left me and I can't afford to work because the cost of childcare for 3 pre-schoolers in comparison to what I would earn makes it impossible to work.

Well that's completely different. I was referring to people who think about what benefits they're going to be entitled to before they're even pregnant etc. Sadly I do know people like that

But I didn't post that to cause an argument anyway, it's just my opinion. I don't know the OP's situation, that could be how it's happened for her and if it is i'm sorry for her.

we found out we were pregnant and it was a surprise and well we weren't prepared for it but my OH got a new job and we moved to a cheaper area so we could survive perfectly fine without the benefits - we'd be penny pinching a bit but we'd survive - but that doesn't mean im not gonna claim what im entitled to or what my OH is entitled to - its not a lot but well every little helps

 

[wishingonastar]

Atomicpink - Agreed - loads of ppl have suggested our household would be better off if I didn't work and it seems that way! For a start we'd have income from tax credits whereas at the mo we get no tax credits and don't see a penny from my salary either...its ridiculous as me going to work means we pay for nursery and keep someone else in a job...if I gave up work it could impact on how many staff our nursery need (especially if other parents are in same position) and then that's two former taxpayers who are now potentially in receipt of benefits instead

 

[Cattia]

I feel like I am going wring somewhere with my budgeting reading this! My salary is £21,000 but my take home pay is only £1400 per month. Our mortgage and essential bills come to around £1000, including fuel to get to work, which is £250 per month. Add to that childcare and food, and we basically have nothing left. Eating out or buying clothes etc is out of the question, unless we include DH's salary, but since his work is unreliable, that might be quite good one month and nothing the next. I wonder if living on the south coast makes a big difference to prices? I can't see how we would manage on any less than we do.

 

[mum2be257]

I dont think its entirely on where u live, yes in Cornwall its cheaper to live but you get paid less, london is more expensive but you get paid more (in general), basic salary down here is £15,000, i think it depends on personal debt and other commitments

 

[Lellow]

Im not 100% sure on this, but i think living down south works out alot more heftier than up north.
Houses are cheaper/rent/etc up there...However tax credits take none of that into account and just go on your income.

It needs to be a bit tighter IMO....

 

[Ozzieshunni]

We got into a fair amount if debt with my visas and when I was really ill during my first trimester. DH got a new job which helps loads but the extra has been great to help pay off that debt. We should be debt free in about a year or so. I think everyone has different situations. Who are we to cast any judgement on people that claim benefits? Does it make them less of a person? Like I said before my DH works hard so I cab stay home with Alex. When we move I'll be working again. It's all give and take.

 

[Natasha2605]

Sorry to go off topic from the original question, but seeing all the replies on here has really got me thinking about how people survive on relatively low incomes.

Our monthly outgoings before any necessities likes petrol or food shopping are:

Mortgage - £1100 (for a 3 bed semi)
Council tax - £184
Gas - £48
Electricity - £41
Landline and internet - £14
Water - £34
Mobile - £50
Car insurances - £70
Home insurance - £30
Sky - £51

I have to spend £60 a week on petrol just for getting to work and back, so that's another £240 per month. So before any food or weekly shop is done, our outgoings are close to £1900. I believe you'd have to be earning around £30k per year to bring home £1900 a month after tax - which is a lot more than some of the combined incomes in this thread.

Obviously the Sky is a luxury but every else is pretty much needed (could get rid of mobiles I suppose). I am genuinely intrigued as to how people on less than £25k household income survive - I must be doing something wrong as we really struggle every month! Or are my bills just really high?

On the original question, I kind of have mixed feelings about the cuts. I totally agree that you shouldn't have children on the basis of only being able to afford them if you get benefits, and also the theory that if you earn over a certain amount then you shouldn't need benefits. However, I also think that those of us who do work and always have done, then tax credits are deserved, irrespective of how much you earn. If we weren't working then we would be costing the government a lot more in benefits, therefore getting a token amount in tax credits shouldn't be too much to ask. I don't know, as I said, mixed opinions...

To compare :

My income - just under £500 a month so say £6000 ayear(now on mat leave though, only work 20 hrs a week)
OH's income - £1030 x 12 = £12360 (after tax)
Child Benefit - £80 a month so £960
Child Tax Credits - £170 a month so £2040

So if you add ALL that together a year inc CB and CTC we get £21360.

A month that is £1780 (give or take £100 depending on OH's overtime)

So :

Rent - £650
Landline and Internet - £30
Sky - £50
Gas - £40 (averagely)
Electric - £30
Council Tax - £110
Catalogues I'm paying off - about £80

Total of £990. Leaving us with £790 a month for everything else. Food is say another £200, anything else is just bits and bobs, disposible income. We don't drive yet and OH's work is a walk away. We enjoy takeaways, holidays abroad once a year, and LO is relatively spoilt. So yeah, it's easily manageable depending on your circumstances I suppose.

Oh yeah,£60 a month on our contract phones, doesn't take that much off but cba doing the sums again haha!

We'd be so much better off financially not working, but I choose to have children so I will pay for them

 

[LittleBoo]

Our outgoings:

Rent: 495
Council tax: 105
Gas: 60
Electricity: 60
Phone/internet: 45
Petrol: 80-100

Think that's it for bills, then there's cleaning products/food etc on top of that
Worked out OH earns 10,400 a year, before tax reductions. We get CTC, WTC and CB. I think CTC and WTC are about 200 a week, plus 36 a week CB.

We get by quite easily actually, we don't bother with crap like cable and don't take holidays. If we're stuck for money I just raid the cupboards, for example the other day we only had some tikki turkey pieces, bag of rice and two peppers, I made a lovely meal for the family! Nom nom

 

[wishingonastar]

Wow! I kid you not I'm sitting in astonishment considering we on paper before tax earn 52k as a household yet we cannot afford sky we have a freeview box and that's it. Perhaps that gives an example of how on paper a middle earner well over the 43 and 27 brackets set out by CTC actually has less disposable income than someone on a lower salary...granted in 4 years when both my children will be in school we won't have so much childcare to pay for (will only need afterschool carer) but until then we are living with next to nothing

 

[Meredith2010]

Wow! I kid you not I'm sitting in astonishment considering we on paper before tax earn 52k as a household yet we cannot afford sky we have a freeview box and that's it. Perhaps that gives an example of how on paper a middle earner well over the 43 and 27 brackets set out by CTC actually has less disposable income than someone on a lower salary...granted in 4 years when both my children will be in school we won't have so much childcare to pay for (will only need afterschool carer) but until then we are living with next to nothing

I know, I'm thinking the same! As the higher earner, after baby no 2 is born I'll be returning to work full time and hubby is giving up work to stay home and look after the babies. That means we will need to survive on a household income of £40k and I just can't see how! It isn't worth him working as full time childcare would cost more than he earns, so he will be staying home. So my income will need to pay for everything and it won't! Obviously we will make it work - either by me getting a second job at weekends or hubby working nights, but if we struggle on £40k I just can't see how people on much less than that survive!

 

[lindseymw]

Worked out OH earns 10,400 a year, before tax reductions. We get CTC, WTC and CB. I think CTC and WTC are about 200 a week, plus 36 a week CB.

WOW! £200 in TCs, that actually means between you & your OH you have a higher income than what me & DH take home after tax & NI & taking TC/CB into consideration too, we earn £25/26k!

 

[xxClaire_24xx]

OH gets £920 a month I get £432 a month and we get family allowance at £136 a month Mias dad gives her £120 a month and we get £356 tax credits so thats

incoming £1946 a month

outgoing is

mortgage £358 (just checked)
council tax £124
life insurance £63
home insurance £38
sky (phone and internet) £44
gas and electric £88
child care £280
shopping £400 (£100 a week)
lunch money for mia £45 (£2.50 a day)

so monthly is £1440 so leaves £500 a month

we also have petrol and any other things that come into it so thats

 

[wishingonastar]

lol...seeing claire's post has also reminded me neither me or OH has life insurance as can't afford it and i cancelled my union membership as again can't afford that...the mind boggles as to how as a household we are considered rolling in it yet we're not!

 

[xxClaire_24xx]

lol...seeing claire's post has also reminded me neither me or OH has life insurance as can't afford it and i cancelled my union membership as again can't afford that...the mind boggles as to how as a household we are considered rolling in it yet we're not!

lol we have it so that if anyone of us die, Peter or I that is, or get a critical illness or the kids get a critical illness then we get the mortgage paid and then we have £75k paid out too so we have money to survive on also if we both die we have wills the house goes to Peters mum and my mum get both the kids but also £95k pay out

also my gran died there on sat and we have had a hard time getting money together for her funeral as she had no insurance so Im glad we have something there so that there is money for whoever needs to deal with it all (my uncle works in a bank and does mortgage and insurance we kinda knew its best to have it, if you can afford it of course) xx

 

[Meredith2010]

I suppose tax credits etc do make a big difference - someone getting £500 a month in tax credits/family allowance is the same as someone earning an extra £10k a year before tax if paying the higher rate - a massive amount!! So someone getting £500 a month in benefits and earning £12k actually has the equivalent salary of closer to £20k - if my maths is correct!

 

[fairy1984]

the BIG differentiator between what people earn and how much disposable income they end up with is the location they live in. compare some of the mortgage/rent costs people have quoted in this thread....i've seen everything from £1100 to £358. Yes they may have different size houses etc but its more than just that.

If you earn a higher income as a result of living in the wealthier area then not only are you taxed more (quite rightly) but you're not entitled to any benefits and your mortgage costs/council tax/travel costs are likely to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher as a result


Also, for those comparing how much they earn when you're paid less than the 27K limit then remember that 27K doesnt result to 2K in your bank account each month

someone earning 13K per year will only be taxed on 3K of what they earn so the difference is huge to those earning 27K.

Also, what if you have the higher earning job because of a degree you've studied for and therefore have a student loan. this means some of that money wil be taken back in repayments. i dont begrudge paying back what I have spent but it does mean that when people think that we earn loads and therefore dont need any help when we have a child, they should remember that after tax/sky high mortgage costs/student loan etc which come as a package deal with earning over the 27K limit significantly reduce disposable income

 

[milf2be]

Child benefit isn't means tested; so everyone used to get it until recently regardless of income or if they worked or not, even the royal family used to get it. Everyone who is on an income under 44k I think it is, for their household, gets child benefit and those that get it the rate is fixed and I think it is nearly £20 a week for the first child and about £13 for any subsequent children. If they are paying you onlu £10 a week for it; they are underpaying you

https://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/payments-entitlements/payments/rates.htm

xx

child tax credit, not child benefit

 

[xxClaire_24xx]

the BIG differentiator between what people earn and how much disposable income they end up with is the location they live in. compare some of the mortgage/rent costs people have quoted in this thread....i've seen everything from £1100 to £358. Yes they may have different size houses etc but its more than just that.

If you earn a higher income as a result of living in the wealthier area then not only are you taxed more (quite rightly) but you're not entitled to any benefits and your mortgage costs/council tax/travel costs are likely to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher as a result


Also, for those comparing how much they earn when you're paid less than the 27K limit then remember that 27K doesnt result to 2K in your bank account each month

someone earning 13K per year will only be taxed on 3K of what they earn so the difference is huge to those earning 27K.

Also, what if you have the higher earning job because of a degree you've studied for and therefore have a student loan. this means some of that money wil be taken back in repayments. i dont begrudge paying back what I have spent but it does mean that when people think that we earn loads and therefore dont need any help when we have a child, they should remember that after tax/sky high mortgage costs/student loan etc which come as a package deal with earning over the 27K limit significantly reduce disposable income

we were VERY lucky with the house price the man wanted £145k but the house had been on the market for 3 years and he had to move we knew he only paid £65k for it as its ex council so we offered £68k and he took the offer!!! we also had a £25k deposit so our mortgage is so low and we had the house valued last week at £138k so we know we should make money back and we took the mortgage over a longer time as we are young xx

 

[fairy1984]

the BIG differentiator between what people earn and how much disposable income they end up with is the location they live in. compare some of the mortgage/rent costs people have quoted in this thread....i've seen everything from £1100 to £358. Yes they may have different size houses etc but its more than just that.

If you earn a higher income as a result of living in the wealthier area then not only are you taxed more (quite rightly) but you're not entitled to any benefits and your mortgage costs/council tax/travel costs are likely to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher as a result


Also, for those comparing how much they earn when you're paid less than the 27K limit then remember that 27K doesnt result to 2K in your bank account each month

someone earning 13K per year will only be taxed on 3K of what they earn so the difference is huge to those earning 27K.

Also, what if you have the higher earning job because of a degree you've studied for and therefore have a student loan. this means some of that money wil be taken back in repayments. i dont begrudge paying back what I have spent but it does mean that when people think that we earn loads and therefore dont need any help when we have a child, they should remember that after tax/sky high mortgage costs/student loan etc which come as a package deal with earning over the 27K limit significantly reduce disposable income

we were VERY lucky with the house price the man wanted £145k but the house had been on the market for 3 years and he had to move we knew he only paid £65k for it as its ex council so we offered £68k and he took the offer!!! we also had a £25k deposit so our mortgage is so low and we had the house valued last week at £138k so we know we should make money back and we took the mortgage over a longer time as we are young xx

yeah you are very lucky indeed and i dont begrudge you this at all as everyone has different circumstances