NHS Dentists

[redpoppy]

Hang on, hang on! Not stupid dentists and not stupid THIS government, Thatcher was the undoing of NHS dentistry!

I had to wait about 6 months to get on the register here (Cheshire). Our PCT handle it. Just ring a number and they put you on a list and add you when the next dentist is taking on. It was the same where I lived before in Northumberland. It was annoying to wait but we got on the list and were able to save a place for Byron even though he wasn't born yet. She's a lovely dentist too!

Thatcher's responsible for everything bad! Stooopid thatcher.

And I've been really lucky with my dental care. I've almost ALWAYS had nhs. Don't want to move... which we are planning to do next year!

 

[Poppeteer]

Hi ladies I'm an nhs dentist and have a lot to say on this, will post in a while when I'm back home.

 

[Poppeteer]

How do they work? I'm on a waiting list, but I remembering hearing something about being able to use one up until your baby is a year old.

Does this give you preference or something on the waiting list? Because as far as I knew, everyone and anyone can use an NHS dentist.

Have been on the waiting list for ages, but apparently in my area some people have been on the list for 5+ years

Also, what constitutes emergency care? I've never had a problem with my teeth until recently, where the back molars hurt almost daily. But I can't see any reason for it. I've never had any problems, not even a filling before now.

Yup, that's correct- pregnant ladies are exempt from any NHS charges and this extends to one years after the babies' birth date.

Everyone is entitled to NHS dental care, but not everyone is exempt from NHS dental charges. Some surgeries will have a limited contract with exempt and non-exempt patients ie. they may have a number of exempt or non-exempt patients that they can treat in any one year, therefore there may be a variation in the length of time you will be waiting on a list (this doesn't apply at all practices- it depends on the local PCT and what sort of contract that particular practice has.)

Some areas have very few NHS dentists... some areas are almost a little too saturated (parts of London spring to mind). The range of NHS dental services deoends on the commisioning of the local PCT and also the NHS dentists who actually want to work in the area.

What constitutes emergency care depends again on the area you are in. Some PCT's will have a dental nurse triage system where the nurse will follow a list of questions which have been given to her and depending on how serious your condition is deemed to be, will determine if you are entitiled to emergency care. Some areas will basically see anyone who turns up at the clnic but may turn you away after a long wait with little more than a prescription.
Emergency care is basically just that- removing the infection through antibiotics, a straight-forward emergency extraction due to acute infection, or the first stage of root canal (this would need to be finished off by your own dentist anyway.)

 

[Poppeteer]

I think you need to already be registered with a NHS dentist to get free treatment so no, don't think you'd get any preference I'm afraid. That's terrible that the list is so long though We need more NHS dentists obviously.

With the new contract, there is no real 'registration' of patients as such, and so RAFWife could in theory find an NHS dentist and be entitiled to free dental care immediately.

Unfortunately with the new contract, dentistry is now a numbers game, and so if the area she is in has little commisioning from the local PCT, then dentists in that area may have their hands tied and aren't able to provide the care.


Just to explain further if it's unclear, the local PCT (Primary Care Trust) are the people who decide where the money for local healthcare in that area go to. For example Barking & Dagenham PCT may decide to commision more money to the local cardiac unit, and so less money for dentistry.... meaning even if there were loads of dentists in the area with empty surgeries, they would not actually be able to provide the healthcare needed.

 

[Poppeteer]

Have been on the waiting list for ages, but apparently in my area some people have been on the list for 5+ years

[

For months and months I searched for a dentist for Chloe, in the end I gave up and registered her back home at my Mums which isnt ideal. I still have her on one waiting list and its been 2yrs now, its shocking!

In England NHS direct also will give you a list of telephone numbers of local NHS dentists who may be taking patients on.
It's worth ringing around as eventually you may find a dentist who has not met their contract quota and may take you on.

 

[Poppeteer]

So I could go to a private dentist, and still get free care?

No. Some private dentists will have a small contract.... a mixed NHS/Private surgery.

But a completely private dentist will not take you on as an exempt patient.

 

[Poppeteer]

I'm SUPER lucky in that we have an NHS dentist in walking distance and he is still taking on patients (east London).

It bothers me NO end that dentists have just refused to do NHS patients. they are scum. But I suppose the difference is, when kids want to be doctors, a lot of the time its because they want to help people and save lives etc. no kid says "I want to grow up to be a dentist so I can help people"

Hope you find someone close by!

Did I read that right? dentists are scum for refusing to see NHS patients.

The problem is with the new contract, brought in by the labour government. Dentists were previously paid per item, for example, if you needed 2 fillings and a crown the dentist was paid for 2 fillinings and a crown.

Now the dentist is paid just for the crown as that is the highest treatment band. This means that when patients come in needing multiple fillings and crowns.... that dentist would spend their time basically working for free or a loss. So while the new contract was meant to improve access, it basically did just the opposite as many dentists decided to leave the NHS and set up private practice.

Then their is the problem of the PCT commisioning, the PCT has to decide how to divide their funds across the healthcare spectrum.... which means in some areas dentistry would be given less funding- therefore fewer NHS dentists. It really is a postcode lottery.


oooooh one mpre thing I really did want to be a dentist when I was younger... used to watch my dad at work and be fascinated with how he coult turn a not so great set of gnashers into a gleaming set of pearly whites. :wink:

 

[Poppeteer]

To be honest, I think one of the main reasons they don't like on taking NHS patients is because of the stupid rules the NHS sets them. If they take on NHS patients they need to treat at least x amount per year, and if they don't meet that quota (for example, because they do private work or actually take their time) they can lose their license to do NHS work. It's why our old dentist lost his job, because he didn't meet their quota ... which was something stupid that only left him with about 10 minutes per patient

Spot on

 

[Poppeteer]

I'm SUPER lucky in that we have an NHS dentist in walking distance and he is still taking on patients (east London).

It bothers me NO end that dentists have just refused to do NHS patients. they are scum. But I suppose the difference is, when kids want to be doctors, a lot of the time its because they want to help people and save lives etc. no kid says "I want to grow up to be a dentist so I can help people"

Hope you find someone close by!

I don't think it is a case of that. The problem is that the amount given to dentists for NHS work done, often isn't enough to cover the huge costs of running a surgery. My usual Dentist is private because he couldn't afford to spend the time he wanted with a patient on the payment system the NHS employs. My local dentist is NHS, and spends less than 1/4 of the time my private dentist does, on the same work. He couldn't afford to do NHS dentisty otherwise. I think it is a fault of the system, not the individual dentists.

Yep that's also correct. With an NHS dentist there simply isn't the time to talk to the patient, take time over the treatment..... it truly is still a converyor belt. There are overheads the dentist has to take into consideration... nurses wages, materials, running costs of a surgery etc. And so that dentist has to work at a certain pace.
Some dentists aren't happy or can't work like that and so have turned private.

 

[PeanutBean]

Yep that's also correct. With an NHS dentist there simply isn't the time to talk to the patient, take time over the treatment..... it truly is still a converyor belt. There are overheads the dentist has to take into consideration... nurses wages, materials, running costs of a surgery etc. And so that dentist has to work at a certain pace.
Some dentists aren't happy or can't work like that and so have turned private.

That really hasn't been our experience. Our new dentist has been lovely and told us to bring Byron with us when we last went in just so he could see the surgery and not be afraid in future once he had teeth. We only had appointments for the two of us but she took the time to look him over and see if she could tell if any teeth were on the way and gave us advice about cleaning etc. All unasked for so it's not like we were bombarding her with questions.

Thinking about it, my old dentist was quite like that too. Never in a huge hurry.

 

[Poppeteer]

Yep that's also correct. With an NHS dentist there simply isn't the time to talk to the patient, take time over the treatment..... it truly is still a converyor belt. There are overheads the dentist has to take into consideration... nurses wages, materials, running costs of a surgery etc. And so that dentist has to work at a certain pace.
Some dentists aren't happy or can't work like that and so have turned private.

That really hasn't been our experience. Our new dentist has been lovely and told us to bring Byron with us when we last went in just so he could see the surgery and not be afraid in future once he had teeth. We only had appointments for the two of us but she took the time to look him over and see if she could tell if any teeth were on the way and gave us advice about cleaning etc. All unasked for so it's not like we were bombarding her with questions.

Thinking about it, my old dentist was quite like that too. Never in a huge hurry.

With respect, one person does not make a country. Patient satisfaction is at a low, as well as morale within the NHS.

After LABOUR introduced their new master plan, almost 1 million people have lost access to NHS dentistry and more than 7.4 million people had been unable to find an NHS dentist.

Labour spends between £34-60 BILLION pounds per year on Quangos. Examples include the National Potato Council which gets £6million a year to promote eating chips while at the same time the NHS gets millions to promote healthy eating! The Carbon Trust gets £85 million a year and then Gordon gives Envirotrust £22million to do the same job!

By contrast the government spends a measly £2 billion a year on dentistry.

You can't defend the indefensible!

 

[PeanutBean]

Of course it doesn't necessarily reflect what's happening everywhere, I was just saying that my experience has been a positive one. In fact all my dentistry experiences have been positive since dentists stopped being paid by the filling back in the '80s and we moved from our dentist at the time who had given all of us a bunch of fillings we hadn't needed! I was lucky that I still had my baby teeth, my siblings fared less well.

I wasn't defending anyone either. I just said that it was Thatcher that took dentistry out of the NHS (which it was). It's inevitable that since then it would go downhill, just like so many other systems that Thatcher destroyed.

 

[Poppeteer]

dentists stopped being paid by the filling back in the '80s ....

I wasn't defending anyone either. I just said that it was Thatcher that took dentistry out of the NHS (which it was). It's inevitable that since then it would go downhill, just like so many other systems that Thatcher destroyed.

NHS dentists stopped getting paid by the filling in 2006. Now they get paid for 1 filling even if the patients needs 10.

Can you explain how Thatcher took dentistry out of the NHS, I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[PeanutBean]

It used to come under the NHS like all the other healthcare things that are free at point of service but that was changed sometime under Thatcher's rule. I don't know when as I was only small and I can't be bothered to look it up. Sorry.

If they were still getting paid by the filling in 2006 either we mean different things or something else was changed in the late '80s that altered in the pay system. All I know is our dentist at that time gave us needless fillings in order to fill his pockets but this system was changed. Whether it was in order to prevent the practice or not I don't know.

I can't really be bothered to argue about this. I like you and I've a lot on my mind.

 

[PeanutBean]

And I'd have thought you'd be pleased that not everyone wants to shit on dentistry.

 

[cath]

As a dentist too (although no longer working in the NHS) I wanted to back up everything that Poppeteer has said. The new NHS contract (introduced by Tony Blairs Labour government) is a joke, and I do not know of a single dentist who is happy with it. A lot of patients are pretty unhappy too, especially those that take good care of their mouth and only need one filling that costs them almost 50 pounds and those thousands of people who have lost access to an NHS dentist after their dentists found the new system unworkeable.
Also, after spending 7 long hard years studying (not to mention the 30 thousand pounds in tuition fees and living costs that I & my parents spent) why should choosing not to work for (at times)barely more than the minimum wage make me scum? Nobody expects an accountant to work for free or calls solictors names when they dont offer legal aid, yet doctors & dentists who choose to work privately to pay off their large student debts are vilified. For the record, I only stopped working in the NHS when I moved abroad as there is no NHS here, and if I return to the UK, I will probably work in the NHS again as although more stressful & lower paid than private work, I feel I am making more of a difference when I am helping people who would otherwise probablynot be able to access dental care.

 

[Poppeteer]

PeanutBean, I'm sorry if it comes across as me arguing with you, believe me that's not how I intended it to come across. It's just very frustrating as being one of the dentists stuck in the current system, with my hands tied... it's made all the more frustrating when I hear of people with no access to NHS dentistry when there are out of work dentists out there.

There were indeed some greedy dentists who got very rich in the 80's, but that the pay per item contract was still in effect pre '06, but there were far tighter controls.... hence fewer unscrupulous dentists.

I'm very sorry to hear of your dog xx

 

[PeanutBean]

I know how frustrating it is to be trapped in things with people complaining and your hands being tied. I certainly don't think the system is great and I find it annoying to pay £15 instead of the £7 it used to be to get the same treatment (being none as my teeth are ok). But I do feel the dentistry system was in decay from a long time ago and sometimes it's hard to get out of these ruts and the money for complete overhauls simply isn't there. But on the positive side my experience in terms of the dentist and getting seen has been ok!