OT deadly shooting at elementary school

[Tiff]

Remove the bolt! That's what my hubby was talking about with restricting the firing mechanism. Gah, I don't speak "gun".

 

[NellyLou]

This is exactly why gun control is needed in the States. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/18/us-utah-gun-school-newtown-fears.html

 

[xSin]

That's heartbreaking to read as well... poor kid.

 

[Tiff]

Is it just me or is it really sad that a little kid felt he needed a gun? That breaks my heart.

 

[fantastica]

That is so sad, but also really really frightening...what if he had used it? Ugh. How did he even get hold of it? I know people say they keep their guns safe...but surely if someone in the home really wants to get hold of it, they'll find a way.

 

[Lina]

and they are now going to charge him, how does that help the situation?

 

[Gen79]

I'm in the UK now but lived most of my life in Connecticut so it's hit me kind of hard; especially as I now have my own child. I used to defend the Second Amendment. Now I don't think that its acceptable for children to be the collateral damage that we all must face in order to be allowed to own weapons to defend ourselves. The statistics are clear; you are safer in a country that doesn't allow it's citizens to own guns. It doesn't matter how safe you feel with a gun, you're still safer else wear.

 

[xSin]

and they are now going to charge him, how does that help the situation?

It doesn't and with a child that young I think they need to look at charging the parents...

 

[Randianne]

and they are now going to charge him, how does that help the situation?

It doesn't and with a child that young I think they need to look at charging the parents...

You are absolutely right. I hope they do charge the parents. They need to start prosecuting irresponsible gun owners responsible for their actions.

 

[mommy0629]

In regards to his mother being a prepper, I think I heard that somewhere but I think it's just speculation and rumor. All I heard (more than once) is that she was a gun "enthusiest" and took adam and his brother target shooting.

We can talk about gun control until we're exhasted, it's not going to help because the only way to avoid these things is to completely ban guns and it's never going to happen in the US, no way, no how. As long as people can obtain them legally, others will get their hands on them illegally. Should they all be safely locked up?, absolutely, but there's no way to enforce that, what is law enforcment going to do, periodically check the home of every gun owner to make sure their guns are locked up? I think it's a complete waste of time and resources to focus on "gun control". We have laws regarding them and it's not like it's legal for people to walk the streets waving guns around, I mean there's only so much that can be done.

The #1 topic of discussion the American government needs to be focusing on here is mental health. I don't care if every single American alive owned a gun, ONLY the severely mentally ill or otherwise mentally disturbed could do such a thing as this. If this severly ill person where getting the psychological treatment he needed (and if he was that disturbed, he should have been hospitalized- oh wait, the state mental institutions got closed didn't they?? Right.) it wouldn't have matter how many or what kind of guns his gun enthusiest or even "prepper" mother had, a psychopath wouldn't have had access to them.

Someone posted a list of things kinds of things that have happened in the US - EVERY person on that list needed serious psychological treatment and most likely, constant care and supervision by professionals. Say there were NO guns at all in the US, none - don't you think someone that insane will use household items and an internet recipie to make a bomb instead?

I support the 2nd amendment, I do, but that's not why I'm saying any of this. It's just not the solution and if our government officials (who frankly I don't trust to protect me or my family in the slightest) is going to waste time focusing on it, then it's just that, a waste of time.

An immediate solution imo, place an armed officer of the law, or a trained military person that's unemployed and looking for a job - hire them to guard our children! I mean this has an easy answer if you ask me. Even IF guns were banned it would take YEARS and YEARS for them to be off the streets, how many more times can this happen until then?

 

[Cee108]

The #1 topic of discussion the American government needs to be focusing on here is mental health. I don't care if every single American alive owned a gun, ONLY the severely mentally ill or otherwise mentally disturbed could do such a thing as this. If this severly ill person where getting the psychological treatment he needed (and if he was that disturbed, he should have been hospitalized- oh wait, the state mental institutions got closed didn't they?? Right.) it wouldn't have matter how many or what kind of guns his gun enthusiest or even "prepper" mother had, a psychopath wouldn't have had access to them.

Someone posted a list of things kinds of things that have happened in the US - EVERY person on that list needed serious psychological treatment and most likely, constant care and supervision by professionals. Say there were NO guns at all in the US, none - don't you think someone that insane will use household items and an internet recipie to make a bomb instead?

This reminded me of this article that has gone viral about the lack of support for people who need help managing issues https://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

(although the qualification of the mother has turned into another debate but I found it so sad that they asked her to charge her son or he wouldn't get any help)

This is such a tragedy :'(

 

[xSin]

We can talk about gun control until we're exhasted, it's not going to help because the only way to avoid these things is to completely ban guns

I disagree -- Lets all take a look at the rest of the world, for an example of why. Plenty of countries (Mine included) haven't "COMPLETELY" banned guns and yet don't share the same problems as the US does. The "All or nothing" mindset is what (IMO) holds Americans back from being able to reach a solution.... but it doesn't have to be "All or nothing" there ARE ways that regulations and laws can be implemented to make things safer.

The #1 topic of discussion the American government needs to be focusing on here is mental health. I don't care if every single American alive owned a gun, ONLY the severely mentally ill or otherwise mentally disturbed could do such a thing as this. If this severly ill person where getting the psychological treatment he needed (and if he was that disturbed, he should have been hospitalized- oh wait, the state mental institutions got closed didn't they?? Right.) it wouldn't have matter how many or what kind of guns his gun enthusiest or even "prepper" mother had, a psychopath wouldn't have had access to them.

VERY very true.

Someone posted a list of things kinds of things that have happened in the US - EVERY person on that list needed serious psychological treatment and most likely, constant care and supervision by professionals. Say there were NO guns at all in the US, none - don't you think someone that insane will use household items and an internet recipie to make a bomb instead?

Lets take a look at Canada for the answer to that... because we DO have guns, in our households, and we also have mentally ill people, and we also have shut down pretty much every single one of the mental hospitals and made care near to impossible to obtain. No, I don't think that someone that insane will go to that degree of effort. We could theoretically get into an argument of how America's "crazies" are "more crazy" than Canada's "crazies" but even if we stack up and compare one of our most prolific attacks (The Greyhound attack on Tim McLean where he was beheaded on the bus) ...as horrific as that was the degree of carnage was limited to one direct victim.

An immediate solution imo, place an armed officer of the law, or a trained military person that's unemployed and looking for a job - hire them to guard our children! I mean this has an easy answer if you ask me. Even IF guns were banned it would take YEARS and YEARS for them to be off the streets, how many more times can this happen until then?

I feel so strongly against the placement of even MORE guns in our schools. Talk about becoming a police state, that just opens the door for the government which you already don't trust to begin placing restrictions on individual private lives, through the chain of command. Not to mention that its not unheard of for mentally unstable people (or people in extreme distress/desperation) to attempt to disarm people who are there to protect. Nor is it unheard of for them to be successful at these attempts either.

Children should feel safe in schools, going to a place with military personnel is not going to put their minds at ease, it will ingraine into their minds that there is enough danger to warrant an armed guard and they'll spend their existance there in fear of the "What ifs"

 

[Randianne]

We can talk about gun control until we're exhasted, it's not going to help because the only way to avoid these things is to completely ban guns

I disagree -- Lets all take a look at the rest of the world, for an example of why. Plenty of countries (Mine included) haven't "COMPLETELY" banned guns and yet don't share the same problems as the US does. The "All or nothing" mindset is what (IMO) holds Americans back from being able to reach a solution.... but it doesn't have to be "All or nothing" there ARE ways that regulations and laws can be implemented to make things safer.

The #1 topic of discussion the American government needs to be focusing on here is mental health. I don't care if every single American alive owned a gun, ONLY the severely mentally ill or otherwise mentally disturbed could do such a thing as this. If this severly ill person where getting the psychological treatment he needed (and if he was that disturbed, he should have been hospitalized- oh wait, the state mental institutions got closed didn't they?? Right.) it wouldn't have matter how many or what kind of guns his gun enthusiest or even "prepper" mother had, a psychopath wouldn't have had access to them.

VERY very true.

Someone posted a list of things kinds of things that have happened in the US - EVERY person on that list needed serious psychological treatment and most likely, constant care and supervision by professionals. Say there were NO guns at all in the US, none - don't you think someone that insane will use household items and an internet recipie to make a bomb instead?

Lets take a look at Canada for the answer to that... because we DO have guns, in our households, and we also have mentally ill people, and we also have shut down pretty much every single one of the mental hospitals and made care near to impossible to obtain. No, I don't think that someone that insane will go to that degree of effort. We could theoretically get into an argument of how America's "crazies" are "more crazy" than Canada's "crazies" but even if we stack up and compare one of our most prolific attacks (The Greyhound attack on Tim McLean where he was beheaded on the bus) ...as horrific as that was the degree of carnage was limited to one direct victim.

An immediate solution imo, place an armed officer of the law, or a trained military person that's unemployed and looking for a job - hire them to guard our children! I mean this has an easy answer if you ask me. Even IF guns were banned it would take YEARS and YEARS for them to be off the streets, how many more times can this happen until then?

I feel so strongly against the placement of even MORE guns in our schools. Talk about becoming a police state, that just opens the door for the government which you already don't trust to begin placing restrictions on individual private lives, through the chain of command. Not to mention that its not unheard of for mentally unstable people (or people in extreme distress/desperation) to attempt to disarm people who are there to protect. Nor is it unheard of for them to be successful at these attempts either.

Children should feel safe in schools, going to a place with military personnel is not going to put their minds at ease, it will ingraine into their minds that there is enough danger to warrant an armed guard and they'll spend their existance there in fear of the "What ifs"

I don't think I've heard anyone say we need the military in schools. We need armed guards hired by the school district themselves. The school district has to answer to the parents. I'm all for hiring EX military and law enforcement because they know how to handle a weapon and they have tactical training.

It's not like they're going to be standing around in full military get up putting the kids through checkpoints. Have an officer who interacts with the kids just like the rest of the administration does. Police officers go into schools and talk to kids already because they don't want kids to be afraid of them. To a child it's not going to be any different than seeing policemen or patrol cars on the street.

It's not necessarily that America has an all or nothing mentality. It's that we know that these things don't happen in big steps. We're trying the find the line between unnecessary risk and opening the door to nullifying our Constitution. Those that want to ban guns outright aren't stupid. If they tried to take away all guns right now, they'd start a civil war. They have to take away freedoms in small steps. We see that happening in countries like Canada, and we don't want that to happen to us.

It's also an issue beyond gun control. If they start ignoring one amendment even partially, what stops them from ignoring other ones (they give us free speech, press, etc)? You are talking about ignoring the document our entire government is based on. If you start doing that, you're taking the power away from the people.

The American culture is vastly different from the UK and Canada. We're a young country and every single generation has fought in wars to protect American freedoms. Almost all of us know someone or have a relative that has been physically or mentally impacted by war. We don't want that to be in vain. We don't give up our freedoms easily. Quite frankly, the ones calling for the strongest gun control laws are almost exclusively wealthy individuals with no family military background. It's much easier to give up freedoms you haven't sacrificed for.

 

[Tiff]

I don't think I've heard anyone say we need the military in schools. We need armed guards hired by the school district themselves. The school district has to answer to the parents. I'm all for hiring EX military and law enforcement because they know how to handle a weapon and they have tactical training.

It's not like they're going to be standing around in full military get up putting the kids through checkpoints. Have an officer who interacts with the kids just like the rest of the administration does. Police officers go into schools and talk to kids already because they don't want kids to be afraid of them. To a child it's not going to be any different than seeing policemen or patrol cars on the street.

It's not necessarily that America has an all or nothing mentality. It's that we know that these things don't happen in big steps. We're trying the find the line between unnecessary risk and opening the door to nullifying our Constitution. Those that want to ban guns outright aren't stupid. If they tried to take away all guns right now, they'd start a civil war. They have to take away freedoms in small steps. We see that happening in countries like Canada, and we don't want that to happen to us.

It's also an issue beyond gun control. If they start ignoring one amendment even partially, what stops them from ignoring other ones (they give us free speech, press, etc)? You are talking about ignoring the document our entire government is based on. If you start doing that, you're taking the power away from the people.

The American culture is vastly different from the UK and Canada. We're a young country and every single generation has fought in wars to protect American freedoms. Almost all of us know someone or have a relative that has been physically or mentally impacted by war. We don't want that to be in vain. We don't give up our freedoms easily. Quite frankly, the ones calling for the strongest gun control laws are almost exclusively wealthy individuals with no family military background. It's much easier to give up freedoms you haven't sacrificed for.

What little freedoms? Sorry, that part stuck out to me for sure.

America isn't that much different than Canada. Sure there are some token stereotypes that we all like to poke fun at now and again, but we're pretty similar. I'd be more inclined to say that the UK is greatly different than North America in general.

Not saying the UK is wrong by any means, just that it IS a different culture for sure.

I'm all for protecting rights and freedoms but when you look at the States as a whole versus other countries who have adopted gun laws there is a vast difference in the shootings per country. I think it was Australia that recently revised their gun laws and their shootings dropped dramatically... in fact since changing their laws there haven't been mass shootings since.

Its statistics like those that don't lie. I think of the same when Sweden changed its laws to have rear facing seats up until the age of 5. Their child mortality rate via car crashes dropped by an astounding percent. I don't remember exactly what the numbers were, but I want to say it was like 70-80%.

Its definitely no easy answer for sure, but something's definitely gotta give.

 

[Randianne]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was talking about the right to carry a weapon for personal protection (which actually isn't allowed in some states either).

Something does have to give. It's finding the balance between education, mental health access, and limited gun control. I'd personally like to see the government enforce the current laws before they pass new ones. You can't say laws aren't working if you don't bother to enforce them.

 

[xSin]

I don't think I've heard anyone say we need the military in schools. We need armed guards hired by the school district themselves. The school district has to answer to the parents. I'm all for hiring EX military and law enforcement because they know how to handle a weapon and they have tactical training.

It's not like they're going to be standing around in full military get up putting the kids through checkpoints. Have an officer who interacts with the kids just like the rest of the administration does. Police officers go into schools and talk to kids already because they don't want kids to be afraid of them. To a child it's not going to be any different than seeing policemen or patrol cars on the street.

It's not necessarily that America has an all or nothing mentality. It's that we know that these things don't happen in big steps. We're trying the find the line between unnecessary risk and opening the door to nullifying our Constitution. Those that want to ban guns outright aren't stupid. If they tried to take away all guns right now, they'd start a civil war. They have to take away freedoms in small steps. We see that happening in countries like Canada, and we don't want that to happen to us.

It's also an issue beyond gun control. If they start ignoring one amendment even partially, what stops them from ignoring other ones (they give us free speech, press, etc)? You are talking about ignoring the document our entire government is based on. If you start doing that, you're taking the power away from the people.

The American culture is vastly different from the UK and Canada. We're a young country and every single generation has fought in wars to protect American freedoms. Almost all of us know someone or have a relative that has been physically or mentally impacted by war. We don't want that to be in vain. We don't give up our freedoms easily. Quite frankly, the ones calling for the strongest gun control laws are almost exclusively wealthy individuals with no family military background. It's much easier to give up freedoms you haven't sacrificed for.

I've heard more than one person say that we need the military in schools which I have, do and always will think is ridiculous. The person I was quoting in my previous post in fact said they wanted to see trained military personnel in the schools. You've clarified that you think it should be EX military and I get that but I still don't believe its the solution. (An opinion, nothing more )

The "All or nothing" mentality I apologize is a rather broad sweeping generalization, it seems that whenever the subject of "gun control" comes up, a LOT of people get all "up in arms" (Pun intended lol) about the second amendment and automatically think that "gun control" means "no guns" and that's not how it has to be at all! People can still have the "right" and have restrictions put in place, so that the right is carried out responsibly. Such as having laws about how storage is handled, or what kind of guns are allowed. As someone else pointed out either in this thread or elsewhere, when the constitution was written, the definition of "arms" at that time was a great deal different than the weaponry that's on the market nowadays. Also an abuse of that weaponry usually resulted in jail time if not hanging.

I really really like what you said in your last post though about current laws needing to be enforced before new ones implemented; you're right, if there are current laws in place regarding storage that are not being implemented then absolutely they need to address that otherwise any new laws are just as fluffy and ineffective as the current ones. A pretty little sticker on an ugly situation, doesn't really do anything.

 

[mommy0629]

We can talk about gun control until we're exhasted, it's not going to help because the only way to avoid these things is to completely ban guns

I disagree -- Lets all take a look at the rest of the world, for an example of why. Plenty of countries (Mine included) haven't "COMPLETELY" banned guns and yet don't share the same problems as the US does. The "All or nothing" mindset is what (IMO) holds Americans back from being able to reach a solution.... but it doesn't have to be "All or nothing" there ARE ways that regulations and laws can be implemented to make things safer.

The #1 topic of discussion the American government needs to be focusing on here is mental health. I don't care if every single American alive owned a gun, ONLY the severely mentally ill or otherwise mentally disturbed could do such a thing as this. If this severly ill person where getting the psychological treatment he needed (and if he was that disturbed, he should have been hospitalized- oh wait, the state mental institutions got closed didn't they?? Right.) it wouldn't have matter how many or what kind of guns his gun enthusiest or even "prepper" mother had, a psychopath wouldn't have had access to them.

VERY very true.

Someone posted a list of things kinds of things that have happened in the US - EVERY person on that list needed serious psychological treatment and most likely, constant care and supervision by professionals. Say there were NO guns at all in the US, none - don't you think someone that insane will use household items and an internet recipie to make a bomb instead?

Lets take a look at Canada for the answer to that... because we DO have guns, in our households, and we also have mentally ill people, and we also have shut down pretty much every single one of the mental hospitals and made care near to impossible to obtain. No, I don't think that someone that insane will go to that degree of effort. We could theoretically get into an argument of how America's "crazies" are "more crazy" than Canada's "crazies" but even if we stack up and compare one of our most prolific attacks (The Greyhound attack on Tim McLean where he was beheaded on the bus) ...as horrific as that was the degree of carnage was limited to one direct victim.

An immediate solution imo, place an armed officer of the law, or a trained military person that's unemployed and looking for a job - hire them to guard our children! I mean this has an easy answer if you ask me. Even IF guns were banned it would take YEARS and YEARS for them to be off the streets, how many more times can this happen until then?

I feel so strongly against the placement of even MORE guns in our schools. Talk about becoming a police state, that just opens the door for the government which you already don't trust to begin placing restrictions on individual private lives, through the chain of command. Not to mention that its not unheard of for mentally unstable people (or people in extreme distress/desperation) to attempt to disarm people who are there to protect. Nor is it unheard of for them to be successful at these attempts either.

Children should feel safe in schools, going to a place with military personnel is not going to put their minds at ease, it will ingraine into their minds that there is enough danger to warrant an armed guard and they'll spend their existance there in fear of the "What ifs"

I don't think I've heard anyone say we need the military in schools. We need armed guards hired by the school district themselves. The school district has to answer to the parents. I'm all for hiring EX military and law enforcement because they know how to handle a weapon and they have tactical training.

It's not like they're going to be standing around in full military get up putting the kids through checkpoints. Have an officer who interacts with the kids just like the rest of the administration does. Police officers go into schools and talk to kids already because they don't want kids to be afraid of them. To a child it's not going to be any different than seeing policemen or patrol cars on the street.

It's not necessarily that America has an all or nothing mentality. It's that we know that these things don't happen in big steps. We're trying the find the line between unnecessary risk and opening the door to nullifying our Constitution. Those that want to ban guns outright aren't stupid. If they tried to take away all guns right now, they'd start a civil war. They have to take away freedoms in small steps. We see that happening in countries like Canada, and we don't want that to happen to us.

It's also an issue beyond gun control. If they start ignoring one amendment even partially, what stops them from ignoring other ones (they give us free speech, press, etc)? You are talking about ignoring the document our entire government is based on. If you start doing that, you're taking the power away from the people.

The American culture is vastly different from the UK and Canada. We're a young country and every single generation has fought in wars to protect American freedoms. Almost all of us know someone or have a relative that has been physically or mentally impacted by war. We don't want that to be in vain. We don't give up our freedoms easily. Quite frankly, the ones calling for the strongest gun control laws are almost exclusively wealthy individuals with no family military background. It's much easier to give up freedoms you haven't sacrificed for.

This is VERY true, this IS America. It's just how we're raised and taught. Weapons are glorified and veterans are praised (I'm NOT saying they shouldn't be), it's how our country came to be the way it is today. We have freedom because of soldiers willing to lay down their lives for the rest of their nation. I realize that is the case in other countries also, but I think it's more so in the US because it's made to be a BIG deal. It's taught in history class and in homes. It's part of our patriatism. We have Veteran's Day every year as a national holiday, those are our national heroes, even to very young children.

I don't feel like any of this is necessarily wrong, but our kids are desesatized from very young and when you end up with an individual who is just not right in their mild, it's like a recipie for disaster. I realize other countries have mentally ill people, but are they brought up and raised to learn that life is like one big war?

My POINT is that unless you are an American and were raised in this country it's going to seem odd to you how strongly people in this country feel about their firearms. For those saying not to ban all guns, just change the laws - HOW? What needs to be changed? It's kept being mentioned about how guns are stored - HOW is that supposed to be enforced exactly? We just have a different mentality in the US as a nation as a whole, we just do.
The only way stricter gun laws would work is if you changed the mentality of our nation, obviously that's not going to happen, so instead, you adapt.

I stand by my thought that the solution is either a military personel, a veteran or a police officer should be on guard at every school. Our kids won't be scared by this, sure they'd need to have a little assembly about it at first etc., but after that I bet anything most American kids would think it was cool, I know mine would and if I did send my child to regular school (we homeschool) then it would make me feel MUCH better.

 

[Gen79]

The American culture is vastly different from the UK and Canada. We're a young country and every single generation has fought in wars to protect American freedoms. Almost all of us know someone or have a relative that has been physically or mentally impacted by war. We don't want that to be in vain. We don't give up our freedoms easily. Quite frankly, the ones calling for the strongest gun control laws are almost exclusively wealthy individuals with no family military background. It's much easier to give up freedoms you haven't sacrificed for.

I'm going to have to call BS on this. The people who are calling for for the strictest gun control laws are the ones who think that the children of America are too high a sacrifice for the privilege of owning a weapon.

 

[MikaylasMummy]

I am Australian and personally I have NEVER seen a real gun in my life.not a single one.if I was mentally ill,i would not know where to even start looking for one.as an average citizen that tells me that if there were other mentally unstable people wanting to commit mass murder it would not be as easy as breaking into their neighbours house and stealing a cache of guns.i don't see how you can argue with this still.making guns severely restricted makes everyone FAR safer.even criminals don't have massive stockpiles of weapons because the laws are too strict, the consequences too high,and they are far too hard to come by

 

[mommy0629]

Ready for this? The parents of a surviving child are sueing the state of Connecticut for $100 million! They claim that their child is extrememly tramatized and that the school board didn't do enough to make a safe school environment and protect their child from "foreseeable harm". Sick! I'm sure the people who's child isn't here anymore would be grateful for their child to be alive and tramatized.