Prisoners and children... What do you think?

[Ceejay123]

I've just read something on the Daily Telegraph.. Which state these two facts:

Not long ago an intmate received early release to spend time with/take care of his children.

A man serving a LIFE sentence, has been given consent to have IVF treatment to conceive with his wife from behind bars. NHS are paying for the treatment..

The judge said it would be against his human rights not to let him start a family just because he was behind bars?

What do you guys think. x

 

[Blah11]

Hm. Usually I'd agree with the human rights thing but not in this case. He can have children when he's released and has served his time if he still wants. The judge was in a tricky spot, I don't think he'd be able to say no under eu law.

 

[Char&Bump-x]

I don't see why its against his rights tbh. He obviously did a very bad thing to be in prison on a life sentence. He doesn't deserve anything but the basics

 

[lau86]

I don't think it's fair to bring a child into the world knowing they may only ever see their dad in a prison, not a good example to set really

 

[v2007]

He shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

He can't provide for them so odds are the NHS will not only pick up the tab for the treatment and the state will pick up the tab for the kids.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I agree that life is not handed out for no reason. I think if his wife pays it would be different. But not on the NHS!

 

[holly2234]

I dont think its fair to take away anybodies right to have a child. Its not all about him really. Its about his wife too. Its easy to say she can move on and find a new partner, but why should she? If she's loyal to her husband and will wait for him, thats great. Why take away her right too?

Doing it on the NHS is a touchy subject. I know it can be a postcode lottery for IVF and it is often for only one try. If his wife lives in an area that funds it, she should get her one try with the man of her choice.

 

[smokey]

Iv always been a strong believer that while in prison (especialy so if its for life) that the normal code of human rights shouldnt aply, obviously im not saying thay should have no rights at all but they shouldnt have the whole range that is available to everyday moral and law abiding people.
If your in for life its normaly becaus eyou took a life so why should you get the same rights as everyone else, you took that victems human rights away.

If it was private funded and they paid for it on their own or he spunked in a cup for her to take home then I wouldnt care but why should we pay for him to father a child when chances are we are probably going to have to pay for the upbringing of that child as well (I know nothing says for sure the mother claims anything but chances are probable)

 

[rwhite]

I don't agree with it. A life sentence is a big deal and I agree with what lau86 said about the kid growing up with their dad behind bars, it's just not right.

Why try to conceive a child that you're not even going to be raising? As I haven't read the article, I don't know what the man is serving for, but I think his wife's a bit mad to be honest

 

[Laura2919]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

 

[Angelicous]

The best of laws can be twisted if you get a clever enough lawyer. It should def be the spirit of the law, not what can be wrangle out of it... I'm sure they are far more deserving ppl who cannot get ivf, especially these days.

 

[Redhead84]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?


Ridiculous

I'm not sure I agree with you. My OH has been to prison - the punishment is having your freedom taken away.. If you are told to turn left, you turn left, your day to day life choices made for you.

Beyond that, I do think there is room to allow prisoners to lead a life.. Yes different for 3 months, a year, however long that might be... But a life all the same. You are allowed to carry on your business affairs from prison, you can communicate with the outside world, you are allowed visitors.

All we do by disenfranchising prisoners entirely from society is disillusion them and turn them further against the society that has said it doesn't want to mix with them for whatever reason (in my OH's case it was dangerous driving) causing the ever revolving door of in and out of prison.

Slightly OT but the biggest thing we could do to change this is educate prisoners, give them some proper skills to use once they get out.. The amount that cannot read and/or write is astonishing, but it's not a vote winner so is never going to happen.

I agree with those saying maybe not on the NHS, however I do not see why a couple shouldn't try IVF privately if that is their choice.

 

[Laura2919]

And part of freedom is making choices like having children, driving, going out, having fun.

You do the crime, you do the time - that involves losing your rights to all that that comes under 'freedom'

 

[shorman]

Lol great way to bring a child into this world with a dad with has been sentenced to life and I no its not the wife's fault but why would she want a baby with a criminal? I feel a lot of the human rights laws a silly sometimes

 

[amie-leigh]

No I don't think a prisoner should be granted IVF on the NHS.

 

[Redhead84]

And part of freedom is making choices like having children, driving, going out, having fun.

You do the crime, you do the time - that involves losing your rights to all that that comes under 'freedom'

Should you not be able to see or communicate with your loved ones and family (who have done nothing wrong.. Need they be punished too)?

Should you not be allowed to write to friends, or read a newspaper and find out what is going on outside?

Should you not be able to make educational choices to improve yourself (they do exist in prison
,however the incentives aren't in place to make it an attractive proposition to prisoners)?

Its all very well and have a black and white attitude to it.. One I admit I used to have.. The reality is very very different.

 

[RachA]

I was under the impression that prisoners were still entitled to (i wanted to put the right word in her but can't spell it lol - begins with a C if anyone can help me!) sex with their partner while they were in prison therefore i don't see the need for IVF unless they already know they can't have kids. If the couple want a child fair enough - each to their own - but i don't think that the NHS should pay for it. Personally i don't think that the child born has the best role model if their father is in prison and i also think that the mum will have a hard time of it by choosing to be a single parent of sorts.

 

[Liesje]

And part of freedom is making choices like having children, driving, going out, having fun.

You do the crime, you do the time - that involves losing your rights to all that that comes under 'freedom'

Should you not be able to see or communicate with your loved ones and family (who have done nothing wrong.. Need they be punished too)?

Should you not be allowed to write to friends, or read a newspaper and find out what is going on outside?

Should you not be able to make educational choices to improve yourself (they do exist in prison
,however the incentives aren't in place to make it an attractive proposition to prisoners)?

Its all very well and have a black and white attitude to it.. One I admit I used to have.. The reality is very very different.

But at the same time, even assuming he's the best father in the world, how is the kid going to feel never being able to come home with their dad?

 

[SnuggleMum]

I don't think we should refuse IVF based on if people are good people or not. He may well be a perfectly adequate father even from behind bars. Are there tests for everyone having IVF? Home inspections, quizzes about parenting?

 

[TwilightAgain]

I don't really see the point in them creating life to be honest. Whats the point in being a parent if the only time you'll ever see your kid is behind bars.

Its not fair on the kid. Plus its not setting a very good example either. Prisoners serving life lose the right to have kids in my opinion.