Prisoners and children... What do you think?

[Ceejay123]

To do a life sentence, he must have done something pretty bad. In all honesty- My opinion is that he shouldn't be given those rights until he has finished his sentence.

 

[Liesje]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

 

[lucy_x]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

Depending where you are from (and im assuming you are not from the UK since you say interracial marriage is breaking the law?!) then these would not be a life sentence in the UK, this man must have done something VERY serious to have a life sentence....And to me that would mean his human rights (within reason) should be taken away.....

 

[Liesje]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

Depending where you are from (and im assuming you are not from the UK since you say interracial marriage is breaking the law?!) then these would not be a life sentence in the UK, this man must have done something VERY serious to have a life sentence....And to me that would mean his human rights (within reason) should be taken away.....

Just to be clear, does everyone actually KNOW what human rights are?

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly (10 December 1948 at Palais de Chaillot, Paris). The Declaration arose directly from the experience of the Second World War and represents the first global expression of rights to which all human beings are inherently entitled. It consists of 30 articles which have been elaborated in subsequent international treaties, regional human rights instruments, national constitutions and laws. The International Bill of Human Rights consists of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and its two Optional Protocols. In 1966 the General Assembly adopted the two detailed Covenants, which complete the International Bill of Human Rights; and in 1976, after the Covenants had been ratified by a sufficient number of individual nations, the Bill took on the force of international law.

 

[Ceejay123]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ered-IVF-treatment--minister-doesnt-know.html

Feel free to read this - It's in regards to rapists and murderers doing life sentences. It also suggests that women going through the same sentences have to be offered the same IVF treatment. x

 

[Laura2919]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

I'm not sure where you are from but here in UK you don't go to prison for interracial marriage. Stealing cheese? Well thats stealing isn't it? so just cos its cheese doesn't mean they haven't committed a crime and you don't go to prison in UK for just smoking one joint lol..

 

[Laura2919]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

Depending where you are from (and im assuming you are not from the UK since you say interracial marriage is breaking the law?!) then these would not be a life sentence in the UK, this man must have done something VERY serious to have a life sentence....And to me that would mean his human rights (within reason) should be taken away.....

Just to be clear, does everyone actually KNOW what human rights are?

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly (10 December 1948 at Palais de Chaillot, Paris). The Declaration arose directly from the experience of the Second World War and represents the first global expression of rights to which all human beings are inherently entitled. It consists of 30 articles which have been elaborated in subsequent international treaties, regional human rights instruments, national constitutions and laws. The International Bill of Human Rights consists of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and its two Optional Protocols. In 1966 the General Assembly adopted the two detailed Covenants, which complete the International Bill of Human Rights; and in 1976, after the Covenants had been ratified by a sufficient number of individual nations, the Bill took on the force of international law.

I think we are well aware of what Human Rights are or at least certain parts of it anyway! These days anything can be classed as a human right.

 

[Ceejay123]

I didn't mean to start a big debate.. I was just shocked by it in all honesty. Prisoners that have done small crimes will be out in a year or two - there shouldn't be a rush for them to conceive. The reason the men on life sentences are offered IVF now is because they're not expected to be out.. At least in time. x

 

[missbabypo]

Whoops, didnt read all posts x

 

[SnuggleMum]

I'm a big supporter of penal reform. LIke a PP said, the punishment is the removal of freedom, I think that prison should be a reasonable place, with no further punishment inside (although restrictions to keep people safe are fine).

The statistics for prisoners are so very, very sad. The majority have substantial mental health and/or learning difficulties. More than half had unstable upbringings, the level of prisoners who were in care is a lot higher than the general population. Most aren't able to read at the same level as a 7 year old. Most are functionally innumerate. Over 70% cannot fill in a job application form, and would be unable to work in most jobs. Most have had barriers to health care and education.

None of those things are excuses, and nothing justifies crime, but it helps me understand a little more how people get started on the path to that life. And once on that path, it is very, very hard to get out.

For those reasons, I fully support prisoners having basic human rights. If a couple is elligible for IVF and one is in prison, I don't think that should be a barrier. I think with IVF we either assess on medical need alone and make no moral judgements, or we offer it to no-one. I wouldn't support moral judgements on 'free' folk having IVF. I don't think it is right to say someone would be a bad parent, or that it isn't fair on a child to be raised in certain circumstances - no one would deny a single woman IVF because it was unfair to her child? Should everyone be tested before IVF to make sure they aren't at risk of committing a crime, ending up single or doing something else not perfect for the baby?

 

[Ceejay123]

I don't personally believe lack of education or a difficult upbringing excuse anything. We're talking about life sentences.. So rapists, murderers. I had a very difficult and upsetting childhood.. Does that mean I deserve sympathy if I decide to murder somebody today? It's always going to be something that people conflict on.

Everyones entitled to their opinion. Thanks for answering.

 

[Liesje]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

I'm not sure where you are from but here in UK you don't go to prison for interracial marriage. Stealing cheese? Well thats stealing isn't it? so just cos its cheese doesn't mean they haven't committed a crime and you don't go to prison in UK for just smoking one joint lol..

I'm not from the uk but have access to their law library and those were all examples from England. There are even cases of people serving life sentences forcrimes committed while they were children. The point was that just because something is "illegal" doesn't make it unethical.
So because someone is in prison, we shouldn't automatically assume its fine to just take away their human rights.
Normally, with a proper understanding of the UDHR, any discussion of taking away someone's human rights under any circumstance would cause outrage.

 

[CarlyP]

Its a tricky one because just because he's serving a life sentence does that mean his wife can never experience been a mother?

 

[Laura2919]

Its a tricky one because just because he's serving a life sentence does that mean his wife can never experience been a mother?

Yes she could be a mother still but why should NHS cover the cost??

 

[Laura2919]

When it comes to prisoners I don't believe the whole human rights bullshit!

I'm sorry but your in prison for a reason, you committed a crime, I think you gave up your rights to Human Rights when you decided to commit that crime so why on earth should he be allowed to start a family?

Ridiculous

Even people who break ridiculous laws? Like having more than one doctor at the same time, interracial marriage, insider trading, sodomy, taking more than $5,000 in cash across a border, smoking a joint, stealing cheese (3 strikes rule), alleging a member of the royal family is gay, etc? Everyone should have their human rights taken away if they're in prison?

I'm not sure where you are from but here in UK you don't go to prison for interracial marriage. Stealing cheese? Well thats stealing isn't it? so just cos its cheese doesn't mean they haven't committed a crime and you don't go to prison in UK for just smoking one joint lol..

I'm not from the uk but have access to their law library and those were all examples from England. There are even cases of people serving life sentences forcrimes committed while they were children. The point was that just because something is "illegal" doesn't make it unethical.
So because someone is in prison, we shouldn't automatically assume its fine to just take away their human rights.
Normally, with a proper understanding of the UDHR, any discussion of taking away someone's human rights under any circumstance would cause outrage.

Well tbh stealing is stealing no matter what you stole and I haven't ever heard of someone going to prison for interracial marriage
I don't believe all thats over the internet.

 

[Liesje]

People are annoyed with NHS covering the cost of one other person's IVF treatment, but what about the royal family who cost tax payers as much as about 25,000 IVF treatments per year?

 

[CarlyP]

I don't believe NHS should cover the cost, I never said that they should. But, his wife shouldn't suffer because he's doing life.

I don't know how they would go about it without IVF.

 

[Natsku]

It depends on whether the NHS would have covered if it he wasn't in prison. Prison should have no effect on it because its not just concerning him, but his wife too, who has not committed a crime.
The problem with the criminal justice system in most countries is that it not only punishes the prisoner, but also their family and thats just incredibly sad to me.

 

[Rhi_Rhi1]

I think some of this is a little off sight isn't it ? this man is serving a LIFE sentence, so one would have to assume (in most cases) he is a danger to society, and accordingly has had his right to his freedom taken away from him, this is entirely different from someone serving a handful of months for car theft or robbery or GBH. I do believe that prisoners serving strict sentences for severe crimes should have nothing in the way of luxuries, there are plenty of deserving LAW ABIDING people in need of IVF for it to go to a criminal.


Also shouldn't this be in the debates section lol ?

 

[smokey]

But the point still remaines that its on the nhs, why should we pay for it when they are not contributing to it themselves.
The wife may be bur both parties shoyld have to.
If you want to do it pay for it yourself or play a civilised part in society to deserve that help