Prisoners and children... What do you think?

But the point still remaines that its on the nhs, why should we pay for it when they are not contributing to it themselves.
The wife may be bur both parties shoyld have to.
If you want to do it pay for it yourself or play a civilised part in society to deserve that help

So only couples where both work should be entitled to IVF on the NHS? Many couples, only one partner works and pays tax.

To be fair, I don't think IVF in prison should be a priority, I'd rather every prisoner be able to receive adequate treatment for basic health problems (like athletes foot!) first, but seems even that is asking too much. We treat prisoners like animals.
 
Only some.. I met someone the other day that's just come out of prison. He had ps2's all day - Films and freeview TV. 3 hours of internet access a day... x
 
It probably should be in the debates section, I wasn't expecting this when I posted it! Lol!. They'll have to offer the same treatment to women in prison - IVF treatment. Otherwise it'd be discrimination. (This was also in the article) x
 
Only some.. I met someone the other day that's just come out of prison. He had ps2's all day - Films and freeview TV. 3 hours of internet access a day... x

In my experience, TVs and gaming consoles (sent in by family) are only allowed if the prisoner works full-time while in Prison. More of a control method than a reward, like the gym - it might seem like a 'nice' thing to give them, but remove it and you've basically got nothing for them to do - bearing in mind most can't read/write adequately.
 
Only some.. I met someone the other day that's just come out of prison. He had ps2's all day - Films and freeview TV. 3 hours of internet access a day... x

Prisons are all different - and any playstations and TV's must be paid for.

When my OH was in prison, he was allowed £12 a week (this was on the standard regime that all prisoners start with). With this money you can buy things such as razors, shower gel, other toiletries (you are given the very basics you need for free but anything above this must be paid for), writing pads and envelopes (stamps can be sent in by your loved ones, to pay for any letters over and above the one per day you are allowed to send), and any other luxuries you would like... my OH allowed himself a can of coke a week.

TV and Playstations work on the same basis, but are usually for those on the enhanced regime (built up over a period of time... my OH was never in there long enough). That said, if you share a cell with someone who wants one, you must pay for it too whether you like it or not... it was 50p a week for my OH when he was in HMP Durham.

Some prisons have excellent work schemes For instance, Wealstun Open (before it changed back to a closed prison) operated a system where they made the prison clothing for all the other prisons, my OH ran the office that did this whilst he was there. However, other prisons do not have many opportunities for "gainful employment", and as much as 22 hour lock ups. That is an awful lot of the day with nothing to do.

You can say all you want that it's punishment etc etc etc however as I've said before, all we achieve by this is harden the people in there and turn them further and further against society. Some people are plain bad... I know this, the man who raped me in 2007 is currently serving 18 years at Her Majesty's pleasure... and may never be released... however the vast majority are victims of circumstance. Drug problems are rife, and the number that cannot read and write astonishing.

The best thing we could do for these men and women is not lock them up with no TV all day - it is to educate them and get them clean. Rather than give them short sentences where no good can be done... send them to prison for longer but make damn sure they are clean and can at least add 2 and 2 when they come out. This would be cheaper in the long run but will never happen because it's not a vote winner.

I realise I sound like a broken record on this, but the fact is most people do not know what prisons are like, yet have very set black and white views on what they think it's like because the Daily Mail has told them.

This is a little bit of what my OH has written about his time inside (he now talks to 16 year olds about it all and how to avoid driving like a knob and end up like him)

"You can say what you like about prison, and how easy it is, how great you think the facilities are, how prison is like a holiday camp. It's none of those things. It's a demeaning, soul-less place full of sad and sometimes evil people who have lives none of us would ever want or even imagine. All the freedoms you take for granted are removed in the name of control and security to the point that you're constantly reminded how little value society as a whole places on your miserable little existence."
 
I think the punishment comes from having to be strip searched (sometimes frequently) or even worse, having your family strip-searched when they come to visit you :-(
 
Another thing worth thinking about is, is he serving a life sentence or a conditional life sentence? My cousin had a conditional life sentence and only served 9yrs x
 
I do agree, if people are to be released then they should be re educated i would be more for a system where all prisoners spent x amount of hours in "school" as such, and the rest of the time working, i do not believe prisoners should have luxuries in their cells, so no tv and no games consoles. I also find it entirely pointless to lock someone in a cell for 22 hours a day for a year, and then release them, then again u could argue that it would put them off being "bad" again ?
 
I do agree, if people are to be released then they should be re educated i would be more for a system where all prisoners spent x amount of hours in "school" as such, and the rest of the time working, i do not believe prisoners should have luxuries in their cells, so no tv and no games consoles. I also find it entirely pointless to lock someone in a cell for 22 hours a day for a year, and then release them, then again u could argue that it would put them off being "bad" again ?

The evidence suggests that being too 'harsh' and treating criminals like animals doesn't help offending rates. An awful lot of prisoners are released, literally, with some clothes in a black bin liner, with a £10 note, and they have to somehow find somewhere to live, or get back home, find a job (hard enough at the best of times, without a criminal record and likely being illiterate). No excuse for being 'bad', but makes it a little more understandable, why so many reoffend.

Eduction, treatment for drug and/or mental health problems, help accessing housing, healthcare and other support outside, and decent training to enable ex-offenders to reintegrate has a much higher success rate.
 
I do agree, if people are to be released then they should be re educated i would be more for a system where all prisoners spent x amount of hours in "school" as such, and the rest of the time working, i do not believe prisoners should have luxuries in their cells, so no tv and no games consoles. I also find it entirely pointless to lock someone in a cell for 22 hours a day for a year, and then release them, then again u could argue that it would put them off being "bad" again ?

Yes however as I've said, there are more often than not far less opportunities for work and education at present than there are prisoners.

There is also currently no incentive for prisoners to work or gain qualifications.

The system is far far from perfect - I do not believe it's the TV that needs to go - as I said, it's the education system within prison that needs to change.

I defy anyone to be locked in a room for 22 hours a day with no stimulation at all not to go a little, or a lot, stir crazy and just become increasingly bitter and resentful.
 
Hence why i said i would be more for a system, i am aware it doesn't exist, i was implying it would be nice if prisoners were educated and given jobs, i also said i find it entirely pointless to lock people up all day lol. When i have been re quoted it looks as though i said the opposite lol. Just to clear it up lol :)
 
apologies if I misread your post, however it wasn't entirely clear - I read it about 5 times and that's what I read it as.
 
Only some.. I met someone the other day that's just come out of prison. He had ps2's all day - Films and freeview TV. 3 hours of internet access a day... x

Prisons are all different - and any playstations and TV's must be paid for.

When my OH was in prison, he was allowed £12 a week (this was on the standard regime that all prisoners start with). With this money you can buy things such as razors, shower gel, other toiletries (you are given the very basics you need for free but anything above this must be paid for), writing pads and envelopes (stamps can be sent in by your loved ones, to pay for any letters over and above the one per day you are allowed to send), and any other luxuries you would like... my OH allowed himself a can of coke a week.

TV and Playstations work on the same basis, but are usually for those on the enhanced regime (built up over a period of time... my OH was never in there long enough). That said, if you share a cell with someone who wants one, you must pay for it too whether you like it or not... it was 50p a week for my OH when he was in HMP Durham.

Some prisons have excellent work schemes For instance, Wealstun Open (before it changed back to a closed prison) operated a system where they made the prison clothing for all the other prisons, my OH ran the office that did this whilst he was there. However, other prisons do not have many opportunities for "gainful employment", and as much as 22 hour lock ups. That is an awful lot of the day with nothing to do.

You can say all you want that it's punishment etc etc etc however as I've said before, all we achieve by this is harden the people in there and turn them further and further against society. Some people are plain bad... I know this, the man who raped me in 2007 is currently serving 18 years at Her Majesty's pleasure... and may never be released... however the vast majority are victims of circumstance. Drug problems are rife, and the number that cannot read and write astonishing.

The best thing we could do for these men and women is not lock them up with no TV all day - it is to educate them and get them clean. Rather than give them short sentences where no good can be done... send them to prison for longer but make damn sure they are clean and can at least add 2 and 2 when they come out. This would be cheaper in the long run but will never happen because it's not a vote winner.

I realise I sound like a broken record on this, but the fact is most people do not know what prisons are like, yet have very set black and white views on what they think it's like because the Daily Mail has told them.

This is a little bit of what my OH has written about his time inside (he now talks to 16 year olds about it all and how to avoid driving like a knob and end up like him)

"You can say what you like about prison, and how easy it is, how great you think the facilities are, how prison is like a holiday camp. It's none of those things. It's a demeaning, soul-less place full of sad and sometimes evil people who have lives none of us would ever want or even imagine. All the freedoms you take for granted are removed in the name of control and security to the point that you're constantly reminded how little value society as a whole places on your miserable little existence."
I fully agree with allowing prisoners rights and privileges. If they're ever expected to reintegrate into society, we can't just abandon human beings and then wonder why they keep reoffending.
In Canada, pregnant mothers are even allowed to keep their babies in prisons, although that's an extreme privilege and there are many criteria to be met, they've had great success with the program. We also have programs to train service animals which teach so many skills that can be utilized upon release.
They can even obtain university degrees which many people disagree with, however Canada has one of the lowest (if not THE lowest?) reoffender rates in the world.
 
Liesje said:
I fully agree with allowing prisoners rights and privileges. If they're ever expected to reintegrate into society, we can't just abandon human beings and then wonder why they keep reoffending.
In Canada, pregnant mothers are even allowed to keep their babies in prisons, although that's an extreme privilege and there are many criteria to be met, they've had great success with the program. We also have programs to train service animals which teach so many skills that can be utilized upon release.
They can even obtain university degrees which many people disagree with, however Canada has one of the lowest (if not THE lowest?) reoffender rates in the world.

Compare that to here, where the average distance a woman is held from her former residence is 57 miles, and many are held over 100 miles away - how many of those women will get regular contact with their children? Added to that, less than 5% of children whose Mothers are sentenced remain in the family home.

As of 2010, there were 75 places for Mothers and Babies in specialist units. , but there are around 4 births per week, so very few women can remain with thier babies.

The statistics for female prisoners are even more upsetting than for me, almost 80% have mental health problems, 37% have previously attempted suicide, 40% left school before 16, 1 in 4 were in care, half have experienced domestic violence and 1 in 3 have been sexually abused. :cry:

Almost 70% will reoffend within 2 years - something isn't working.
 
woah why does that have my name on it lol i didn't write that :/ lol
 
haha i thought the forum was playing up :) i was like woahhhh whats going on :p
 
A harsh system definitely does not help re-offending rates! I'm a big fan of the system here, where prisoners work (and in low-security prisons can even continue going to their normal job or school) or are educated and are helped to re-integrate into society afterwards rather than just released with no help. Re-offending rates are incredibly low here and I am sure that has a big deal to do with the prison system as before they changed to the new system from the old Russian-style system they had one of the worst imprisonment rates in Europe.
 
When people come out after long stretches, it cant be easy for them to integrate if they havent been learning skills (for those that need to) and keeping their minds active.

I worked in a clothes shop once and at 9am when we opened, a man came in (in december) dressed in jeans and a t-shirt in the freezing cold with a carrier bag containing release papers (which he lost twice in the shop! Since he was used to having no responsibility for things) and £45 i think it was. He came to buy a jacket and jeans. But he had no idea what size trousers he wore! He said it was 10 years since he went in and life just isnt the same. He was the most pleasant customer id had in a long time but it was so clear he was completely lost and i really hope he didnt go back to prison but it was clear from talking to him that prison had become his life. It was a shame really.
 
Why does a prisoner doing life deserve any human rights? He violated and probably destroyed someone elses rights as it is.

I'm completely against it.

Privately, its their own business, but NHS funded? :nope: There are more deserving people out there who abide by the law.

He made the choice to break the law. Punishment means not having what you want.

As a wife, she has the choice to stick by him or move on. Its a sacrifice that is unfair for her, true.
 

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