Re-current losses and support

[wantingagirl]

Hiya

Looking for support at this very difficult time in my life and to chat with others in the same boat along the way. Hopefully make some good friends who understand exactly what it feels like. I worry quite often if I ever will have another successful pregnancy.

I don't know if i should take this take that my head really does spin sometimes and feel like just letting go lol. I've cut out alcohol, fizzy juice and I'm changing my diet this cycle. Hospitals seem to just fob you off, I've had 2ww spotting from 3dpo onwards.

I have 3 live children, a loss in 2010 but then went onto conceive my daughter Olivia 8 months later with no issues. I then had another girl very quickly no issues. I then became very ill after having her where I was on anti-depressants and I bled every day for a year. I conceived again maybe after 6 proper cycles, passed this baby at 8+6 but wouldn't pass everything and 2 weeks later had a d&c. Conceived again 12 months later lost this one at 5+6 then 14 months later conceived again for a whole 3 days Currently still trying for my rainbow

Sorry this is so long, just wanted to give you my back story and hope to meet some new people

 

[KatBar]

Sorry to read about your losses .

I can definitely relate to the feelings of worry about whether or not you'll be able to have another child..

Our story is that after a year of trying with no luck, we had to do IVF with ICSI. Our issue was my husbands sperm had only a 1-2% morphology rate (meaning there was only a very low number of normal sperm present).
We were very lucky and conceived our son on the first round. We also had 15 embryos to freeze, which were frozen on day 6.

Unfortunately I think this gave a us a false sense of security that it would be easy enough to get pregnant with baby number 2. We did get pregnant with us first frozen embryo transfer in December, but it ended in a natural miscarriage at 5w3d. I then actually got pregnant naturally with my cycle right after, but that was a chemical pregnancy, with bleeding starting at just over the 4 week mark..
We did another transfer in February, and a.though it had all looked great for the first few weeks (the hcg blood tests had been rising nicely), it took a dive at 6 weeks, when a scan showed I was a week behind and there was no heartbeat. A follow up scan at 7 weeks confirmed no major growth, or heart beat (& obviously starting to measure more than a week behind), so I was scheduled for a D&C at 7w3d.

So here I am, almost 2 weeks from the D&C, wondering what the heck is wrong, and why this is all happening when we thought our only issue was my husbands good sperm reaching the egg.
I've done a bunch of blood tests to rule things out with me, but won't have the results for another couple of weeks (& my IVF doc thinks it will all be normal anyway). We did get the pregnancy tissue sent for genetic testing, but again, won't have that back for another few weeks.

We need to wait to get all the results in, and of course wait for my next natural period before we can try again. We've decided we'll probably transfer 2 embryos this time.. As even though it's not necessarily true, we feel it'll up a chances of getting a good embryo.

It's definitely a horrible place in life to be in... as you lose confidence with each miscarriage, and then tend to stress/worry more in the next ones.

 

[Atuck2]

Sorry to read about both your losses.

I have been diagnosed with PCOS when I was 12, and was told then that I had a very severe case that would probably lead to me being infertile my entire life.

Last year, at age 26, I had my first natural period and conceived 2 cycles later, but it ended in a very early miscarriage. I knew the baby was gone after 5 weeks, but I carried until 7 weeks. I emotionally couldn't take trying again until this year (the month after our baby would have been born) and I had a chemical pregnancy. Now my husband is the emotional wreck and can't take the thought of trying again for a while.

I just keep questioning myself, asking if my body will actually handle a full pregnancy...

 

[Fit_Mama2Be]

Hi ladies, sorry to hear about all of your losses.

I am in the midst of miscarriage #3 and will probably need a d&c as it doesn't look like my body is going to do this on its own.

I'm going to be referred to a recurrent miscarriage clinic so maybe I'll get some answers there... but right now I have no urge to try again and am seriously contemplating whether we should just count our blessings and remain a one child family.

I would love nothing more than to revisit the issue after a couple of years but unfortunately I'll be 37 next month so I don't really have that option.

The annoying thing is that DH was totally keen to be one and done but I begged and pleaded and cajoled and convinced him that we needed two. And now I feel done but he wants to try again after we get our testing done.

 

[mimi4]

Hi, I am sorry to know about your losses. I wish all your dreams come true. Have you considered seeing yr doc to find out more about the reasons why you can't get pregnant? I would also advise to talk about additional tests (karyotyping, pgs ngs, sperm testing etc) x

 

[Sweetkat]

Sorry to read about your losses .

I can definitely relate to the feelings of worry about whether or not you'll be able to have another child..

Our story is that after a year of trying with no luck, we had to do IVF with ICSI. Our issue was my husbands sperm had only a 1-2% morphology rate (meaning there was only a very low number of normal sperm present).
We were very lucky and conceived our son on the first round. We also had 15 embryos to freeze, which were frozen on day 6.

Unfortunately I think this gave a us a false sense of security that it would be easy enough to get pregnant with baby number 2. We did get pregnant with us first frozen embryo transfer in December, but it ended in a natural miscarriage at 5w3d. I then actually got pregnant naturally with my cycle right after, but that was a chemical pregnancy, with bleeding starting at just over the 4 week mark..
We did another transfer in February, and a.though it had all looked great for the first few weeks (the hcg blood tests had been rising nicely), it took a dive at 6 weeks, when a scan showed I was a week behind and there was no heartbeat. A follow up scan at 7 weeks confirmed no major growth, or heart beat (& obviously starting to measure more than a week behind), so I was scheduled for a D&C at 7w3d.

So here I am, almost 2 weeks from the D&C, wondering what the heck is wrong, and why this is all happening when we thought our only issue was my husbands good sperm reaching the egg.
I've done a bunch of blood tests to rule things out with me, but won't have the results for another couple of weeks (& my IVF doc thinks it will all be normal anyway). We did get the pregnancy tissue sent for genetic testing, but again, won't have that back for another few weeks.

We need to wait to get all the results in, and of course wait for my next natural period before we can try again. We've decided we'll probably transfer 2 embryos this time.. As even though it's not necessarily true, we feel it'll up a chances of getting a good embryo.

It's definitely a horrible place in life to be in... as you lose confidence with each miscarriage, and then tend to stress/worry more in the next ones.

Good luck with this pregnancy. Just wanted to say your OH's situation sounds similar to mine. Low morphology is often associated with high DNA fragmentation - even though it doesn't impact on fertilisation the embryos are often chromosomally abnormal. I have had 3 miscarriages and have been offered icsi with imsi with genetic testing on the embryos (Pgd).

I am torn re whether to go for IVf with PGf or try naturally. I was told out of ten embryos only one or two could be normal. This would explain your losses.

I was also told that the embryo being behind with growth is a classic sign of chromosomal issues. So it's not you - it's the sperm!


https://www.reproductivehealthgroup.co.uk/fertility-and-assisted-conception/sperm-dna-fragmentation/


Good luck with this pregnancy.

 

[KatBar]

Thanks Sweetkat! That's really informative and I hadn't actually even been aware of it, or that it could be an issue (kind of annoys me that my doctor hasn't mentioned it actually). It certainly feels like it fits the current bill... We only managed to get testing done on one of our miscarriages (the most recent one) and it did have a trisomy defect (I'm not sure what number it was, but according to our doctor it's one that is not associated with having an issue with my or hubby, but just badluck).

We did our IVF with ICSI, but I've never heard of imsi - can I ask what that is? Unfortunately we were never encouraged to pgs testing on the embryos (& its too late now that they're frozen), so we don't know how many are normal.

Still we did get our miracle son at least. I do have a friend who has a known issue that means she has a very high chance of having babies with Trisomy 22. She had twins via IVF with all the testing etc. Then last year she got pregnant by surprise (she also has severe endo I should add), and now she is due to give birth to a healthy baby girl.
My scan is this coming Monday, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that maybe we've got another healthy featus growing away in there.

Thanks again - it's good to know these things, especially when some doctors obviously don't.

 

[Sweetkat]

KatBar - we also have one DD conceived naturally and very quickly. All the other natural pregnancies were very quick to happen too - and yet my OH only has 4% morphology and between 44 and 51% fragmentation. I don't know if we were lucky with DD but since then have one two definite trisomies and one suspected one and one chemical.

After the last loss which really was awful because my D&C was on what would have been 11 weeks we had karyotype testing, thyroid antibodies, clotting, NK cells, my ovarian reserve (I have near optimal fertility), my uterus. There is nothing else to test.

It could have been just really bad luck, especially as my last loss was trisomy 21 and apparently that's 90% from the mother (but only 0.1% chance at age 35 which is what I was), and still 10% chance of it coming from the father.

Also, most doctors don't even bother testing DNA fragmentation if there is bad morphology as the treatment for them is ICSI or IMSI (same thing but with a greater magnification). I can't face another chromosomal loss so have booked myself in for the first consultation of ICSI with PGD. As in we are going ahead - I have already had the 3D scan and hormone testing back in December so now starting medication in 12 days


As the PGd takes 3 weeks and will need a FET the whole thing is likely to take 3/4 months. So in that way I am torn to just try naturally. Could be pregnant in 3 weeks but then if I get to 11 weeks and need a D&C will be devastated

Let me know how your scan goes. Everything crossed for you and lots of sticky baby dust

 

[Sweetkat]

KatBar - good luck with your scan today. We are just waiting for a nurse's appointment at the IVF clinic, although I am still torn about whether to go ahead with it.

 

[Sweetkat]

So we have decided to try naturally for a few more times and if I carry on miscarrying do IVF.

 

[KatBar]

So we have decided to try naturally for a few more times and if I carry on miscarrying do IVF.

Hi SweetKat,

Totally fair enough on trying a few more times before IVF. It certainly isn't a cheap option, and if there is a small chance you don't have to spend that money then why not! You'll have to keep me posted on how you go!

It is interesting about how you've got pregnant easily even with your OH having 4% morphology! My hubby's was 1-2% and we never got pregnant naturaly. After a year of trying, we got pregnant off our first IVF with ICSI attempt. We tried naturally for a few months before our first FET in December, but again, nothing. So for whatever reason, we only seem to be able to conceive naturally after a miscarriage.

Scan went well. Baby was measuring nicely at 6 weeks and 1 day, and there was a healthy heartbeat.
Of course, whilst it was amazing and I'm very pleased, it hasn't eased the aniexty much. I think it'll be another long 5-6 weeks before we can feel more confident (& that's if all continues to go well of course).
I've been quite crampy too. Not super painful, just mostly mild cramping on and off. Whilst I know it can be normal, I never got it with my son, so it naturally makes me quite nervous as well!

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you're doing!

 

[mimi4]

A woman might experience mc in a situation of natural conceiving or via ivf. In case of 3 or more pregnancy loss, docs advise to dig dipper to find out the reasons. In most cases mc might happen cos of chromosomal aneuploidy, particularly during the 1st trimester. If genetics is the issue, one of the best solutions is combine ivf with pgs ngs.

So if you experience mcs, it's time to check in with yr doc and do additional testing. IVF itself won't solve a problem. Good luck x

 

[Sweetkat]

How are you doing KatBar? Have you had any more scans?

Yesterday was CD13 for me and after agonising whether to try or not/ to do IVF or not - decided to have unprotected sex . So that's that - I normally ovulate around day 15-16 so everything very crossed

 

[KatBar]

How are you doing KatBar? Have you had any more scans?

Yesterday was CD13 for me and after agonising whether to try or not/ to do IVF or not - decided to have unprotected sex . So that's that - I normally ovulate around day 15-16 so everything very crossed

Hi Sweetkat!

Yes, I actually had a scan last Friday (just before 7 weeks), and it was still all looking good.
I hadn’t expected to have that scan actually.. It came about because I was made aware of this Rainbow Clinic at the women’s hospital where I gave birth to my son. The clinic looks after women who have had recurrent miscarriages, and late term loss, and offer extra support during pregnancy, as well as investigating causes after a miscarriage. I had my first appointment on Friday and was pleasantly surprised that they like to do quick scan’s at each appointment. I have the option of having weekly or fortnightly appointments with them up to 12-14 weeks (after the 12-14 week mark, I will be moved across into their regular maternity system). I chose to do a fortnightly appointment, but can change to weekly if I get anxious at any point. So hopefully I will get another scan at 8w4d at my next appointment with them, and it will all look good.

Actually funny story… (bit of back-story first) I had a some-what traumatic birth experience with my son – as I was attempting to push him out, his heart rate almost came down to a complete stop. The midwife pushed the emergency button, calling a Code Pink (infant in distress), and it was like a movie with seriously 5-6 different people rushing into the room, and them trying to get me to roll around and get his heart rate back up. After what felt like ages, it did, and they let me keep pushing for a bit. However, after it happened 2 more times, I had a doctor preform an emergency forceps delivery. Anyway, because of how full on it was, all I could ever remember was that the doctor was a youngish, attractive blond woman, who had short hair in a ponytail – but no other detailed features.
So I met with this doctor on Friday and chatted for a bit about my miscarriages and current pregnancy. She then asked about my history on my pregnancy/labour with my son, and started to look through my hospital file. As she is looking at the file notes on my son’s delivery, she started laughing, and goes “Oh! I delivered your son”! I thought it was pretty cool, and pretty random! I mean she would deliver babies all the time, so probably nothing noteworthy for her, but was kind of special for me to actually look at this woman that helped bring my little man into the world (& stitched me back up afterwards too haha)!

(Sorry, I have realised I have practically written an essay now)

That is exciting (& I am sure, nerve wracking at the same time) that you have given it a go naturally! Make sure to keep me posted! I will be crossing everything that you will get your rainbow baby this cycle!!!

 

[Sweetkat]

KatBar so glad all ok so far! Fingers crossed this is your rainbow. I think it's going to be ok this time as your other miscarriages were earlier! Everything crossed!!!

I am soooo scared of having another miscarriage that I am actually sitting here and thinking whether I should get the morning after pill tomorrow. I know it's crazy but with OH's sperm some articles are saying risk of miscarriage more than double - that would make it 60% and as I got to 10 weeks and 2 days last time with baby measuring 10 weeks it was just so traumatic!

And it was trisomy 21 - they say it's normally from the mother but I am convinced in our case it was the sperm (because it's so fragmented and because at my age risk is 1 in 350).

Other options are - IVF, donor sperm, meet another man.

I think I am losing the plot....

Funnily enough my daughter was also a forceps delivery with an episiotomy as her heart rate started dropping. I had a young good looking male dr and a room full of midwives. The good looking dr then had to operate on me to get the placenta out as it tore and some of it wouldn't come out.

 

[Sweetkat]

So anyway/ I feel like I am trapped in my own personal version of hell.

OH and I met nearly 9 years ago. He had two kids and I had none but really wanted one (I was late twenties). He messed me around for 3 years having unprotected sexual but pulling out. I thought he wanted kids but he just strung me along.

Then he started taking a cocktail of medications for his medical condition (including methotrexate which I think is the main cause of the DNA fragmentation). He then said he did want a baby and gave the medication up for a year and we had DD.

Since then I have had 3 miscarriages and one chemical pregnancy all while he is on methotrexate. He then gave it up but after 3 and 6 months and anti oxidants his fragmentation went up.

As he has 2 other kids he actually doesn't care if he has another. I in the meantime am literally agonising all day every day about what to do and I am also angry with him for stringing me along, not freezing his sperm while off the medication (which I asked him to do for months as the medication even says to be off it for 3 months before conceiving).....

Sigh

 

[KatBar]

Aww, sending you big hugs! I can completely understand why you would feel that way. Especially when you have seen what appears as a healthy embryo at 10 weeks, only for it to not make it and then find out it has trisomy 21! Miscarriages are hard no matter what, but I really feel like the closer to you get to that 12 week mark, it can get even harder.. It’s such a long time to be waiting (& hoping) that your baby will be alright, and then for it not to be is devastating.

I definitely get your feelings around your OH’s fragmentation too. It’s hard when you’ve had a healthy baby before, as whilst the chances might be greater for you to miscarry, you know you can also still have a perfectly healthy baby too.
It is interesting about trisomy 21 lying more with the mum then the father. I guess there is no way you’ll ever know what caused it (your OH’s fragmentation, or just bad luck maybe on your side), but I can appreciate why you’d feel the cause might have been the sperm.

I have to say, although my hubby has not been tested (so we don’t know 100% if he does or doesn’t have it, just that the chances are more higher for him), I looked into what the IVF clinic’s here say about it… It definitely seems like something that is either a grey area, or they are only just starting to learn more about it in Australia. My clinic, Monash IVF, is one of the biggest in Australia – it was the first to open here, and produce a healthy IVF baby. Then probably next in line for where I live is called Melbourne IVF. I checked with both, and neither of them cover anything about sperm fragmentation – absolutely no mention of it, yet these two clinics are the biggest, most expensive IVF centres (so they’ve put a lot of time and effort into researching all the different causes of infertility). But, there is 2 smaller clinics that haven’t been around quite as long (& I know one of them is very cheap and doesn’t have a great rep – I know someone that went there and transferred to Monash before having success), and they do make a mention on of the sperm fragmentation.
And then of course, you can google all sorts of other information on it. So I sort of don’t know what to think about it… Although if this pregnancy turns into another miscarriage, we’ll definitely get my hubby tested for it regardless.

Anyway, I definitely sympathise with your feelings hun! I know that I have wondered about how many more miscarriages I can go through before we call it quits and just accept having one child. I am not ready to give up just yet (& I mean, hopefully this is our take home rainbow baby anyway), but it’s just so soul suking going through this process over and over. Not to mention, with the IVF tries, it is extremely costly. We’ve now spent about 7 months (& thousands of dollars) trying to get baby number 2, and are currently in limbo waiting to see if this pregnancy is a healthy successful one or not. And whilst I know it takes others longer than 7 months, it’s just the misery that the 7 months has been. It has been a constant roundabout of being happy to be pregnant, then scared over the pregnancy, then devastated and upset the pregnancy didn’t work, then worried about the next one, and so on and so forth. It takes over your whole life. For me and my hubby, the last 6-7 months have just felt like a blur of mostly disappointment. I don’t want to get to the end of the year and feel this same way about the entire year.. Especially with my son still so young..

Oh, I just saw what you wrote about you and your OH. That is definitely tough! Especially when he has 2 kids from a previous relationship and isn’t as invested in having a fourth child. And it would certainly be frustrating when you asked him to freeze his sperm and he didn’t, and now you’re going through all this. It’s good he has gone off the medication, but obviously not great that it doesn’t appear to have helped this time.
I always think it’s hard when one of you is more invested then the other… Although my hubby and I are mostly on the same page, he has said that he would be happy enough just having Bodhi, and it wouldn’t devastate him not to have another. Whereas for me, it would be a huge thing to accept not having another one, as I have always thought that I would have 2 kids (& stupidly believed that would always be the case, before knowing how difficult it could be for some of us).
We’ve definitely had some arguments through this journey, because I am more emotionally invested than he is. So I can certainly appreciate what you are saying in terms of your OH not being so fussed, and not doing more in the past (freezing sperm) to help prevent the current situation.

All I can say is, hopefully we’ve both got rainbow babies on board (hopefully yours is currently in the making as we speak), and the none of this worry will matter anymore!!

 

[Sweetkat]

KatBar, thank you so much for your answer . I think men generally are less bothered about having children, some don't care if they have any at all. And once they have one I think most are ok not to have more.

I have always wanted 2 but since the losses I would (if I could) have 3. The baby roller coaster has been happening for the last 20 months - 9 months of trying and 10 months of waiting and testing. It is soooo hard, especially as everyone around me is having babies - even though I started trying over a year before they did.

I agree that fragmentation is a grey area, but the two IVF clinics I went to in London for recurrent miscarriage tested for it as did the hospital where my DD was born. The guy there was a state hospital doctor (not private) and he had no incentive of making money - and yet he said DNA fragmentation could be the reason.

He also said that IVF with ICSI overall has lower birth rates per cycle than trying naturally (even after multiple losses) so he said that if I carried on and on trying, eventually it would work. He said statistically even with the miscarriages out of ten tries there should be at least 4/5 healthy embryos. I get pregnant first/ second month every time, but even then ten tries (esp getting to almost 12 weeks) would take 2 years at least

I think as you are young and your OH is young, and you have time to try and try, you will have a rainbow. And fingers crossed this pregnancy is it

I am 37 soon, so trying naturally with OH could mean that I am close to 40 and run out of time

 

[Sweetkat]

How are you doing girls? I have just had a very very faint line on a first response (5 days before my period is due). It's barely visible though, so not sure if it's going to turn into a proper positive.

This time last year I was still happily pregnant (my last loss was confirmed on 24 June). Since then we only tried one month- in December - which turned into a chemical. This is the first time we have had unprotected sex.

I do fall pregnant very easily, but three later losses (8-10 weeks) and one chemical.

KatBar, how is it going with you?

 

[Sweetkat]

I have also done a digital (being a POAS obsessive) which came out with a negative result