Returning to work issues..... (uk)

[PoppyPainting]

I work in a co-operative supermarket as a team manager (equivalent to a deputy manager) and have been there for over 5 years now.

When I found I was preg I read the work's family friendly policy and requested to return from maternity leave as a job share (following the guidelines in the policy). I got no sensible response to this request before I went on maternity leave just told that who knew what would be happening to the business on my return and it would be discussed nearer the time.

Now after weeks of to-ing and fro-ing I have been told (via answer machine message) that if I want to return 'in a flexible way' I need to drop a grade at work (this would be a big pay cut).

I have spoken to the union and been told that my work need to provide a solid business reason for this decision or I can appeal also that as they did not follow policy by responding to my request to alter my hours I can appeal on those grounds too. Now I have that info from the union I will request a face to face conversation with my area manager.

Has any one else been in a similar situation? I don't want to go back to work full time. It took me 6 years to conceive my little girl and I want to be with her as much as poss till she starts school. I can't afford to give up work or to drop a grade....

 

[mrs c f]

Slightly different situation but I work full time in an Independant travel agents. I did mention that I wanted 4 days when I returned but my boss said we could discuss nearer the time. I'm now due back in 8 weeks and we've had a meeting and he doesn't want me to work 4 days. 5 days or not at all. Like you it took us a long time to conceive and lots of heart ache. I don't want to leave my daughter 8-30-6pm five days a week as I'll never see her.
I feel for you. I feel like once you have a baby your treated differently. A second class citizen. Hope it works out for you. X

 

[icklemonster]

Can a member of your union attend the meeting with you? This may help to ensure the correct procedures are followed, as it sounds like they haven't been to date. You may also like to speak to Acas. They have a document here which explains your rights and how your employers should have handled this: https://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/m/p/Right-to-apply-for-flexible-working-a-short-guide.pdf

I hope you get the days you wish for xxx

 

[Annie77]

No they cannot do this. They must provide a legitimate reason for not allowing you to job share - they haven't even yet advertised for a job share. If they could not find a job share then they may have a case but at the moment the cannot refuse it.

 

[PoppyPainting]

Thanks girls. I met with my area manager today and he gave me a long list of reasons why he was refusing my request for a job share.

These included;

that my job role and contract says that i need to be fully flexible

that the policy on flexible workers does not apply to store managers or deputy mangers

that it will set a precedent and they will have to say yes to other people who have requested flexible working

that i would not be able to fulfill my duties due to my lack of flexibility

the staff will be confused as they will not know who is in charge....

He said I could work 30 hours a week but I would need to be entirely flexible about my hours ie whatever rota the store needed in order to run properly (the store is open 8am- 8pm, and also managers work from 6am to get deliveries in etc... I don't think I want to do this tbh.

I've run this lot past the Union who say I need to put in a grievance and then meet with my manager with a union rep present. Or request a meeting and put my pro's and con's to them of why my request for a job share would work. However work have to respond to a grievance and they don't have to respond to my asking for a meeting. I don't like the idea of a grievance, because to me it looks aggressive. Also however I realised quite how much I hate trying to deal with the politics of being at work, and the bullying which has to be continually challenged. Urg, it made me feel all crap inside to have to deal with that stuff again.

 

[icklemonster]

So sorry to hear that the meeting didn't go well If you did go own the route of a grievance, what would the grievance be based on?
I definitely recommend trying to get a union member in a meeting with you though. When my Mum was made redundant, a union rep going into a HR meeting with her, ensured she got the full redundancy package which she was entitled to.
I don't understand your employers point that the staff won't know who to report to. Lots of places have more than one manager
I really hope you come to an agreement xxx

 

[PoppyPainting]

So sorry to hear that the meeting didn't go well If you did go own the route of a grievance, what would the grievance be based on?

It would be based on them having not followed the request for flexible working policy correctly by not responding to my original request within 28 days - this response time is a statutory thing apparently...

 

[Pearls18]

Thanks girls. I met with my area manager today and he gave me a long list of reasons why he was refusing my request for a job share.

These included;

that my job role and contract says that i need to be fully flexible

that the policy on flexible workers does not apply to store managers or deputy mangers

that it will set a precedent and they will have to say yes to other people who have requested flexible working

that i would not be able to fulfill my duties due to my lack of flexibility

the staff will be confused as they will not know who is in charge....

He said I could work 30 hours a week but I would need to be entirely flexible about my hours ie whatever rota the store needed in order to run properly (the store is open 8am- 8pm, and also managers work from 6am to get deliveries in etc... I don't think I want to do this tbh.

I've run this lot past the Union who say I need to put in a grievance and then meet with my manager with a union rep present. Or request a meeting and put my pro's and con's to them of why my request for a job share would work. However work have to respond to a grievance and they don't have to respond to my asking for a meeting. I don't like the idea of a grievance, because to me it looks aggressive. Also however I realised quite how much I hate trying to deal with the politics of being at work, and the bullying which has to be continually challenged. Urg, it made me feel all crap inside to have to deal with that stuff again.

Surely some of those reasons are not business cases, "it will mean we have to say yes to everyone"...surely each case should be case by case and they should be considering yours alone not thinking about anyone else.

I also don't see how deputies and managers are exempt, surely all employees have equal working rights (although it may be more difficult to grant, surely you can't be simply "exempt".)

 

[LDC]

Does your policy say the option of job sharing? I think this is different to flexible working etc.

Sorry to hear they're being difficult. Everything they say should be business and colleague related - I asked for reduced hours (I've since changed jobs) and was declined an afternoon as they needed me to run groups, even though there were others available, they said it wasn't fair on my colleagues as I'd never be able to pick this up.

I'd definitely take a member of the union with you for any meetings though. My husband is a manager in a supermarket and I know how difficult they can be - all of the women who didn't want to go back full time have all taken a part time management job (they won't do job sharing at his store, I think that might be standard across the retail field?)

Good luck

Xx

 

[kanga]

All the reasons he has given are very weak. You should get a counter argument ready against each one.

 

[kanga]

.

These included;
1--
that my job role and contract says that i need to be fully flexible
2--
that the policy on flexible workers does not apply to store managers or deputy mangers
3--
that it will set a precedent and they will have to say yes to other people who have requested flexible working
4--
that i would not be able to fulfill my duties due to my lack of flexibility
5--
the staff will be confused as they will not know who is in charge....
6--
He said I could work 30 hours a week but I would need to be entirely flexible about my hours ie whatever rota the store needed in order to run properly (the store is open 8am- 8pm, and also managers work from 6am to get deliveries in etc... I don't think I want to do .

1-- irrelevant. IM making a flexible working request which I'm legally allowed to do and you need to consider it within the rules and laws set down. I will be totally flexible as stated in my contract, but within my new reduced hours/days.

2--it would be illegal to say this. Can yu put that down in a letter for me please as I don't understand what you're saying here.

3--not necessarily. You need to consider my request on an individual basis as set out in law. What may or may not happen in the future is irrelevant and shouldn't influence my application. And anyway, what you're saying by saying this, is that you will not give anyone a flexible working request. That is illegal.

4--on what basis are you saying this! I would do my team leader duties in the days allotted to me. And my job sharer would do them on the other days.

5--no they won't. The staff aren't stupid.

6--this is rather unreasonable.

Unfortunately for some employers, they wold rather not have to deal with flex working requests as it involves thinking about ways of doing things differently. And they don't like change.

Have they rejected your flex working request in writing? If not, request they give you their reply in writing so you can fully consider it and know what the reasons are very clearly. I believe they have a legal obliation to respond in writing?

I would call some local law firms and get some advice. Darbys in oxford give free advice over the phone on this sort of thing.
Im sure others would do too.

Unfortunately what you're experiencing is very un pleasant and draining to have to deal with.

Is it a reputable big company or a small business?

 

[PoppyPainting]

It's a big business I work for, the co-op, in one of their supermarkets, so much for their community focused member focused way of working....

I have a meeting on monday with the area manager and my union rep. That is in response to my submitting a form re my flex working request that they have to respond to. So the conversation will be noted etc.

Thank you everyone for your responses on here. I'm taking the documents from Acas and the Co-op's own flexible working policy to the meeting so I can ensure they don't pull any shifty manouvers.....