Should people on benefits be forced to do voluntary work?

[indy and lara]

I have not read the whole thread so I am sorry if its been said before

I think they should , its not slave labour like I have seen it being described on the news they are working for their JSA and if they are fit and healthy I see no reason why they shouldnt

Why not pay them decent wages like every other worker there? thats the problem. They should get fair pay not less pay.

It isn't that simple though is it? Then you would have a situation where people who were unemployed were earning more than someone on minimal wage as Tesco pay above minimum wage. I know this happens in many other situations in reality.

The thought of Tesco and similar places getting cheap labour really leaves a bad taste in my mouth but it is not slavery or slave labour. What about things like internships? They have always been unpaid and seen as a necessary evil in order to get the skills you need to access some professions.

Something does have to be done to address the culture of unemployment we have in the UK. As I said earlier, we are in a situation now where we have 3rd generations of some families who have never worked. Not because they can't but because they don't want to. Before my career break I was heavily involved in Enterprise Education and one of the things which really stuck in my mind from this is a story that one of the Guidance teachers had about her current group of kids. They were 16 year olds and stated that they expect to be paid over £20k on leaving school and would not work for less than that. Not on leaving uni or after post 16 education but at 16 with Standard Grades/ GCSEs. There does seem to be a culture where, among certain groups, people are just not willing to work their way up or do what needs to be done in order to survive. Hubby has been doing a lot of tutoring at uni recently and the students laughed at him when he told them what his starting salary had been in 1997 and this was with a 1st.

I know this is slightly off topic but we do seem to be developing into a nation where many people have lost the understanding that to get somewhere in life you have to work hard and apply yourself.

 

[Dragonfly]

I cant agree respectively. Unemployed person needs job jobs there give it to them. Not pay less its like some punishment. No wonder theres no jobs with real money any more.

 

[TattiesMum]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I don't know what Tesco does on the corporate level, but I know they created the home worker position so parents would be able to work and be there when their children get off school.

As Dragonfly says, Tesco are by no means the only large, profit making, organisation to take advantage of free labour under the work fair scheme ... they were just the example I used

I just find it offensive that any company would be able to boost their profits by using people who have no choice for free and without providing them with any employment rights whatsoever It's immoral on so many levels

 

[indy and lara]

I cant agree respectively. Unemployed person needs job jobs there give it to them. Not pay less its like some punishment. No wonder theres no jobs with real money any more.

Fair play Dragonfly.

I really just don't think that people are always willing to take on the jobs which are there if they don't meet their salary aspirations. I would imagine that places like Tesco are only some of those who are taking on people. I would want to know what some of the other opportunities are before saying the whole thing is flawed. Sadly some people really do need support in learning skills such as getting up when their alarm goes and timekeeping and perhaps these types of placements help with these? I don't know- just thinking aloud.

As I said before though, unpaid work experience is a huge part of many industries. There has only been an outcry about it recently in relation to affleunt families supporting their children who did internships in business.

 

[Dragonfly]

I cant agree respectively. Unemployed person needs job jobs there give it to them. Not pay less its like some punishment. No wonder theres no jobs with real money any more.

Fair play Dragonfly.

I really just don't think that people are always willing to take on the jobs which are there if they don't meet their salary aspirations. I would imagine that places like Tesco are only some of those who are taking on people. I would want to know what some of the other opportunities are before saying the whole thing is flawed. Sadly some people really do need support in learning skills such as getting up when their alarm goes and timekeeping and perhaps these types of placements help with these? I don't know- just thinking aloud.

As I said before though, unpaid work experience is a huge part of many industries. There has only been an outcry about it recently in relation to affleunt families supporting their children who did internships in business.

I do see what you are saying though its not work experience like a teen would be sent on (I had mine in a car dealership) its adults and as you say some have familes to support to. Any one on jobseekers is over 18 and has to be able to support themselves and I know the law says you can live on £50 a week but its not a good quality of life. In fact you cant pay rent out of that as a single person at all. And I dont even think you would get help with rent on job seekers. Its making people poorer, and making people suffer can actually lead to more crime. Theres a job and money there give them the jobs pay them fair like everyone else. Perhaps over here where people are near killing each other over 1 job I see things differently from friends and family.

 

[indy and lara]

I cant agree respectively. Unemployed person needs job jobs there give it to them. Not pay less its like some punishment. No wonder theres no jobs with real money any more.

Fair play Dragonfly.

I really just don't think that people are always willing to take on the jobs which are there if they don't meet their salary aspirations. I would imagine that places like Tesco are only some of those who are taking on people. I would want to know what some of the other opportunities are before saying the whole thing is flawed. Sadly some people really do need support in learning skills such as getting up when their alarm goes and timekeeping and perhaps these types of placements help with these? I don't know- just thinking aloud.

As I said before though, unpaid work experience is a huge part of many industries. There has only been an outcry about it recently in relation to affleunt families supporting their children who did internships in business.

I do see what you are saying though its not work experience like a teen would be sent on (I had mine in a car dealership) its adults and as you say some have familes to support to. Any one on jobseekers is over 18 and has to be able to support themselves and I know the law says you can live on £50 a week but its not a good quality of life. In fact you cant pay rent out of that as a single person at all. And I dont even think you would get help with rent on job seekers. Its making people poorer, and making people suffer can actually lead to more crime. Theres a job and money there give them the jobs pay them fair like everyone else. Perhaps over here where people are near killing each other over 1 job I see things differently from friends and family.

Fair point. As I said, thinking aloud. It is not just teens who need experience of working though is it? There are many adults who have never worked or have very limited work experience too so would benefit from the opportunity to gain some of these skills too.

 

[TattiesMum]

As I said before though, unpaid work experience is a huge part of many industries. There has only been an outcry about it recently in relation to affleunt families supporting their children who did internships in business.

I think that, for me, the big difference between internships and these schemes is that internships are purely voluntary ....

There is a huge difference between choosing to work for free in a prestige industry in order to hopefully gain a foothold and being forced to work for a fraction of the minimum wage with no hope of a permanent, full paying, job

Not only is it slave labour but it also acts to shrink the job market as companies using forced labour (at no cost to themselves) are obviously not going to offer permanent positions where they have to pay someone ......If every company chose to do this and to take it to it's farthest conclusion then there would be no paying jobs for anyone ... why pay someone to do a job when the Gov't will force someone to do the work for free?

 

[Dragonfly]

As I said before though, unpaid work experience is a huge part of many industries. There has only been an outcry about it recently in relation to affleunt families supporting their children who did internships in business.

I think that, for me, the big difference between internships and these schemes is that internships are purely voluntary ....

There is a huge difference between choosing to work for free in a prestige industry in order to hopefully gain a foothold and being forced to work for a fraction of the minimum wage with no hope of a permanent, full paying, job

Not only is it slave labour but it also acts to shrink the job market as companies using forced labour (at no cost to themselves) are obviously not going to offer permanent positions where they have to pay someone ......If every company chose to do this and to take it to it's farthest conclusion then there would be no paying jobs for anyone ... why pay someone to do a job when the Gov't will force someone to do the work for free?

Thats what I mean, put together so much better than I could say.

 

[milf2be]

i think its a brilliant idea! i dont think it should be all people on benefits, just the ones on job seekers allowance. obviously people on disability allowance are unable to work so they obviously wouldn't be able to do volunteer work. Also if you aren't working because you cant afford childcare, it would be silly to do volunteer work (unless it allowed children),but im guessing those people aren't claiming job seekers.

1. it looks good on their CV, instead of empty gaps which will put potential employers off
2. it lets people learn valuable skills, that again will look good to potential employers
3. it gets people socialising
4. i think someone mentioned it would take a lot of people to train them, well wouldn't that mean more jobs?
5. it would stop the minority that are abusing the system doing so and stop wasting tax payer's money.

obviously its not as straight forward as that, but on paper (or a computer screen) it sounds pretty good to me.

i dont see why people are saying its slave labour - they ARE getting paid, they're getting job seekers allowance. it stands to reason as well that unless they are living with family, these people are probably also getting income support etc. so its not like they are in a position where they are losing out financially. my OH is a fulltime teacher and even with the benefits capped, some people will still be getting paid more on benefits then him working, which isn't right.

they could also have it where if they work over the 20 hours (or whatever it is changing to) doing volunteer work they could get working tax credits, which would be another bonus.

i also dont see how its much different from what i have been doing for the last 3 years (being a student midwife). i worked full time, nights, earlier, lates and long days. my first year of uni i got no bursary and £2000 student loan, which didnt even cover my accommodation which was £90 a week. second year i got £90 a month in bursary and £1600 student loan again which didnt even cover accommodation. This year i would only get more bursary because i had LO, and that paid for childcare, and my student loan was again £1600ish. its not like im standing there doing nothing either, i actually did the job of a midwife :S

 

[deafgal]

depending how much hours they are forced into, it would be more like a sweat shop if they are being "paid" less than what their service is worth.

btw, historically, slaves and servants were offered food and shelter.

 

[milf2be]

depending how much hours they are forced into, it would be more like a sweat shop if they are being "paid" less than what their service is worth.

btw, historically, slaves and servants were offered food and shelter.

aah right i ll get on to the nhs about my slave labour then

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I love that voluntary work is seen as slave labor! When I was in high school, I had to do a certain amount of community service (voluntary) to graduate! It's shocking how kids these days expect things to be handed to them. You have to make the effort.

 

[Missy86]

I love that voluntary work is seen as slave labor! When I was in high school, I had to do a certain amount of community service (voluntary) to graduate! It's shocking how kids these days expect things to be handed to them. You have to make the effort.

I agree

 

[marley2580]

I think that voluntary work should be just that - voluntary. Being forced to do it devalues the work itself and, yes, can be seen as slave labour.

 

[Dragonfly]

it is when you are forced to work not voluntary and paid a very low amount of money for it plus given all the crap hours and jobs no one else wants by the employer. (I know this dosnt happen everywhere but in some cases it is sickening). My friends looked like slave labour though my brothers didnt his was in a charity shop and he actually enjoyed it and didnt get crap jobs he was just there helping like the rest of the employees.

 

[milf2be]

i did voluntary work for red cross from the age of 16-18 whilst i was doing my a levels. during those few years (doing things about once a month) i:
did my first aid training
went on to do peer education teaching first aid, sex ed etc. (and won an award for it)
worked with young carers
did first aid at big events
designed leaflets and business cards they actually went on to use
worked in the shop
helped with a float at the local carnival/parade
started learning how to drive an ambulance.
i found all of that exciting, entertaining and rewarding. definitely not slave labour. i learnt some excellent skills and i had a good time doing it.

i dont see how it is any different from people going to work, im sure a lot of people are forced to go to work even though they dont want to because they couldnt afford to live otherwise. i dont see how its any different.

what do people think if they were only made to work a few hours a week? say jsa is £67.50, minimum wage is £6.08, so what if they worked 11 hours a week?

also, what if it were for proper charities instead of big companies? so like red cross, cancel research, RSPCA etc.?

and isn't the government supposed to be helping little and new businesses? couldn't people volunteer to help the businesses out then as the business got bigger it could hire those people?

 

[Laura2919]

I haven't read through the whole thread so sorry if I repeat something someone has already said

But what about those with young children? Who would look after the children if people on benefits should be forced to do voluntary work? And if this wouldn't include those with young children how would it be fair to single people out?

I don't necessarily think its a bad idea but there is always going to be an issue and it definitely wouldn't be called voluntary because it wouldn't be voluntary

 

[Ozzieshunni]

We're talking job seekers. I thought you couldn't claim it unless you were actively looking for work. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Laura2919]

We're talking job seekers. I thought you couldn't claim it unless you were actively looking for work. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You have to go in every two weeks to show them what you have applied for. I just see the should people on benefits so I assumed it meant everyone on benefits.

 

[marley2580]

i did voluntary work for red cross from the age of 16-18 whilst i was doing my a levels. during those few years (doing things about once a month) i:
did my first aid training
went on to do peer education teaching first aid, sex ed etc. (and won an award for it)
worked with young carers
did first aid at big events
designed leaflets and business cards they actually went on to use
worked in the shop
helped with a float at the local carnival/parade
started learning how to drive an ambulance.
i found all of that exciting, entertaining and rewarding. definitely not slave labour. i learnt some excellent skills and i had a good time doing it.

i dont see how it is any different from people going to work, im sure a lot of people are forced to go to work even though they dont want to because they couldnt afford to live otherwise. i dont see how its any different.

what do people think if they were only made to work a few hours a week? say jsa is £67.50, minimum wage is £6.08, so what if they worked 11 hours a week?

also, what if it were for proper charities instead of big companies? so like red cross, cancel research, RSPCA etc.?

and isn't the government supposed to be helping little and new businesses? couldn't people volunteer to help the businesses out then as the business got bigger it could hire those people?

But you CHOSE to do that, it wasn't a condition of getting enough money to live. I actually think most charities wouldn't want these people who, lets face it, would not want to actually be there. I also think that most charities would not be able to administer it unless the govt suddenly came up with a whole load of money to pay for the extra man hours/jobs that would be needed for supervising unwilling workers.