Should we bring back the death penalty?

[fantastica]

I was getting slightly ahead, and imagined that had it been legal, (which I imagine it will sooner rather than later) would it extend to prisoners the way the voting right had? And if people were to oppose this than would that not be considered inhumane. Suicide is legal and a common person with stable mental health wouldn't be stopped from going on hunger strike, yet we do intervene with prisoners, which I understand why but is still an illogical argument to me.

It would be a great debate as we would all likely be in agreement.

'Regular' people do get stopped from being on hunger strike. If you just stop eating, eventually you will be sectioned and force fed.

I watched a thing on Ian Brady the other week and one guy speaking kind of summed it up for me, he said something along the lines of 'the state does not put people to death, and does not let people die (obvs suicide!) when in it's care'.

They couldn't stop prisoners committing suicide using other methods, but surely they can't really just let someone starve themselves.

I'm pretty sure that in the UK force feeding has to be presented to court before it can be implemented and a court usually rules in favour where this is in the best interest of someone who lacks the capacity. Refusing medical intervention or asking not to be resuscitated is more or less the same, as the outcome is death and this has unofficially been happening a long time in hospitals.

Anyway, I digress.

Yeah you could be right, I don't really know the ins and outs tbh...just from a friend at uni who was anorexic...they said as her bmi was so low she could opt to in to hospital, or she would be sectioned as she was not really 'allowed in the community' with such a low weight...slightly different though I guess.

Off topic...but it's interesting haha!

 

[BabyJayne]

I was getting slightly ahead, and imagined that had it been legal, (which I imagine it will sooner rather than later) would it extend to prisoners the way the voting right had? And if people were to oppose this than would that not be considered inhumane. Suicide is legal and a common person with stable mental health wouldn't be stopped from going on hunger strike, yet we do intervene with prisoners, which I understand why but is still an illogical argument to me.

It would be a great debate as we would all likely be in agreement.

This is another interesting point, and another debate in itself. I don't think voting rights have been extended to prisoners yet, but the ECHR are certainly voicing off about it and have declared the UK's blanket ban on prisoners illegal. I think we have a few months to say what we are going to do about it, but the Government, from what I understand, has vowed not to back down. I agree completely with this - you break the law of the land, then you have no right to have a say in the law of the land (or rather, who makes them) until your sentence is served.

Sorry, another digression. Where were we...?

 

[Lina]

*will change, don't they have till november? Confident this will actually be passed as the alternative is bankruptcy! I am one who supports their right to vote, (hides)

I think we are currently on, is it unethical to keep them alive against their will?

 

[smelly07]

Only Prisoners serving less than a year will possibly get the right to vote as far as i was aware?

I do not think this is for the prisoners benefit anyway more for the parties trying to scrap in more votes ..............however found this article and it was an iteresting read and the comments after have points from both side........ and i can see both sides .....however i do not think having the right to vote is on most prisoners things i would love to be able to do list.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/05/prisoners-right-to-vote

 

[vaniilla]

I don't think it would make too much a difference if they had the right to vote with the main benefit being to the parties - prison is pretty much a vacuum as far as media and information goes with not a lot to sway them them and a talk or a leaflet might be enough for some. I have no faith/confidence in our voting system what so ever, I wouldn't call what we live in a democracy but that's a completely different argument

 

[smelly07]

going back to the topic we were on.......is it unethical to keep them alive against their will?

I'm finding this one quite hard, and difficult to explain because of what i believe............i think each person should be allowed to decide whether they live or die and we shouldnt intervene.......... i guess where it becomes difficult is that prisoners wanting to commit suicide it is much harder for them but prison guards can not sit back and let it happen they have to intervene otherwise how does it look? what does that say about them? i think in regards to ian brady he would be able to find other means if he was really serious..............other prisoners have.............in some sense ian brady seems to be choosing a rather long drawn out process maybe with other intentions......??.....i dont know.

 

[vaniilla]

I think they shouldn't have the right to die because they are serving a sentence, their punishment/sentence is not finished, as a part of legal cause and effect it would be completely undermine the court's judgement and ultimately the sentence, while it is harsh to see anybody suffer nobody in my eyes should be above the law and carrying out something which goes against it wrong, it's a lesser or two evils thing if that makes any sense.

 

[smelly07]

i'm wondering what the people who agree with capital punishment thoughts are on this....?

 

[Redhead84]

I don't think it would make too much a difference if they had the right to vote with the main benefit being to the parties - prison is pretty much a vacuum as far as media and information goes with not a lot to sway them them and a talk or a leaflet might be enough for some. I have no faith/confidence in our voting system what so ever, I wouldn't call what we live in a democracy but that's a completely different argument

No it isn't, it's the opposite.

You only need to think about how long it takes for prisoners to find out which new prisoners are kiddie fiddlers and get armed up with razor blades and pool balls in socks - it isn't long I assure you, and they get that information from the TV and the papers.

 

[smelly07]

I was in bed channel hopping last night and came across a programme, death row texas... and it was about 3 men who were due to be executed within the next few weeks.......... It was awful for me to watch, the men had spent the last 14 or more years locked up 22 hours a day, when out of there cell they are handcuffed no human contact, 1 visit every two weeks behind glass.

2 of the men clearly could be rehabiliatated and the crime committed was done in teenage years (19) under the influence of alcohol ........they were put to death after losing all their legal battles and they even showed the bodies after.........1 man was clear to have mental issues and although i still dont believe should be put to death he should have been locked up indefinitely.

It was so sad (yes even though they all confessed to their crime) it made me even more against the death penalty and actually has made me want want to become more active in fighting for it to be no more!!!


oh and on the death certificate it is recorded as murder but obviously its a 'legal' murder!

 

[meli1981]

once again feeling sorry for the murderers, no mention of the victims! and i dont care when the crime was committed, whether it was when they were 19 or 91, the fact is they still did it. and it would be worse if it were under the influence of alcohol, alcohol is not illegal and people are unpredictable while under the influence. if the guy was let loose and had drinks wants to say he wouldnt do it again? the world is a better place without scum killers in it!

and the fact people empathsize and feel sympathy for these killers really disturbs me

 

[joshiesmum]

once again feeling sorry for the murderers, no mention of the victims! and i dont care when the crime was committed, whether it was when they were 19 or 91, the fact is they still did it. and it would be worse if it were under the influence of alcohol, alcohol is not illegal and people are unpredictable while under the influence. if the guy was let loose and had drinks wants to say he wouldnt do it again? the world is a better place without scum killers in it!

and the fact people empathsize and feel sympathy for these killers really disturbs me

Well said xxx

 

[xemmax]

once again feeling sorry for the murderers, no mention of the victims! and i dont care when the crime was committed, whether it was when they were 19 or 91, the fact is they still did it. and it would be worse if it were under the influence of alcohol, alcohol is not illegal and people are unpredictable while under the influence. if the guy was let loose and had drinks wants to say he wouldnt do it again? the world is a better place without scum killers in it!

and the fact people empathsize and feel sympathy for these killers really disturbs me

Your views are so black and white they're quite unrealistic.

At what age should a person pay for or with the rest of their life for murder (irrespective of circumstances since they don't seem to affect your view)? 18? 16? 14?

 

[meli1981]

i dont care when they commit the murder, you should pay for it. its really disturbing that here in canada if you kill someone when your under 18, as an adult your criminal record is abolished. noone will ever know what you did. im sorry but i think its my civil right to know if the person sitting next to me or my children is a viscious killer.

 

[Tasha]

But even their criminal record was kept, you still wouldn't know if the person next to you is a murderer

 

[xemmax]

But at what age should someone either pay for it with their life, or be imprisoned for the remainder of it?

Do circumstances not affect your view at all?

If a woman at the hands of a physically/sexually abusive husband killed him while he was sleeping (not direct self-defense) after years and years of abuse, should she be given the death penalty? Life imprisonment?

If a 10 year old witnessing the above abuse did the same, should they be given the death penalty? Life imprisonment?

If you hit someone in your car and they die - death penalty?

If someone randomly attacks you in the street and you punch them and they die..?

Where is your limit?

 

[Natsku]

Here children under the age of 15 can't even be held criminal responsible. If they commit a crime it becomes a child welfare matter not a legal matter.

 

[smelly07]

because clearly TWO of those on death row could be rehabilatated, just because someones done something once does not mean they will do it again..........1 of those inmates committed a crime ONE crime whilst in a gang, he was abused all his life- his mum use to tip boiling water or coffee over him, he was put into care abused and ran away to a gang, yes at 19 stupidly did something very very bad and spent 14 years on death row locked up 22 hours a day then killed - if i disturb you because i feel empathy towards a human being regardless- so be it - i just feel sorry for people who dont!

 

[meli1981]

But even their criminal record was kept, you still wouldn't know if the person next to you is a murderer

very true

 

[meli1981]

But at what age should someone either pay for it with their life, or be imprisoned for the remainder of it?

Do circumstances not affect your view at all?

If a woman at the hands of a physically/sexually abusive husband killed him while he was sleeping (not direct self-defense) after years and years of abuse, should she be given the death penalty? Life imprisonment?

If a 10 year old witnessing the above abuse did the same, should they be given the death penalty? Life imprisonment?

If you hit someone in your car and they die - death penalty?

If someone randomly attacks you in the street and you punch them and they die..?

Where is your limit?

of course these examples are not worthy of the death penalty. im talking about people who kill others premeditatively with no concept of right from wrong, and no conscience. theres no rehabilitating these people.