Sleep Sense Support Group!

[history_girls]

The gang is back!

Tg she can't be 8 months - she was having her 7 month celebrations last week I'm sure! How is she sleeping?

Cattia- school is calmer now but I am so worried about the academy announcement by the govt! We are taking LO on holiday with her great-grandfather to Belgium. Bit of a busman's holiday for a history teacher

Poppy - great sleep news!

LO has been poorly all week with a horrible sort of cold combined with being sick bug. CM is an angel but I've been picking her early. She has slept well (except waking up to poo really loudly down the monitor at me at 4.30am!)

Right still packing as OH is away tomorrow all day and night so need to do it tonight!

 

[lanaross]

Hi ladies, can I please join I started using sleepsense today and gave up after 45 minutes of crying. Isabella is an absolute champion when it comes to naps - she has four naps usually first one at 2,5 hours and two next ones at 1,5-2hours and the last one at 45 minutes tops. She can put herself to sleep just brilliantly in her swing or bassinet for the first couple naps. Third nap is a little more difficult and I do turn the swing on. Fourth nap she starts sucking on her fist like she's hungry but she's not and cries a little but five minutes later she is asleep without me even checking on her. And then comes the bed time.. It's just horrific, takes hours to get her to sleep. She had a reflux and always needed to be upright and she would either fall asleep eating or with me holding her. Today I tried to put her in her crib awake but drowsy and she screamed, I gave her three minutes came picked her up and she calmed down right away. The second I even get closer to her crib, she screams and keeps on screaming until picked up again. She keeps sucking on her fists, but cries and turns away from breast so she's not hungry. I am assuming that's her way of calming herself down but doesn't work. It was the same today with the fourth nap and she did fall asleep. Anyway, first day that I tried it, I gave up, I can't hear her crying and she doesn't calm down with me in the room, just when I pick her up. Am I starting too early? Should I wait a couple more weeks till she's three months? or doesn't matter?

 

[hivechild]

Just a quickie as I should be getting to sleep myself...Lana, I started with Ronan at 7 weeks and the first few nights were rough but I saw immediate results. Are you staying in the room where she can see you & doing pick up/put down?

Have you created a bedtime routine for her? How long after her last nap are you getting her into bed?

Even now this far along, if Ronan is overtired he screams blue murder when I put him down to go to sleep, yet if he's just in the sleepy zone when our routine is done and I put him down he drifts right off to sleep.

He's a fist/thumb sucker too to calm himself. Of course now that he can more reliably find his thumb it's his new favorite pasttime.

Fingers crossed and sleepy vibes for a good night's sleep for all!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.
We had such an awful night last night and I don't know why. Thomas has been sleeping so well for ages now and I even thought he might be getting ready to drop his night feed as he hasn't been waking for it until 5 or even 6 (getting him back to sleep again at that time of the morning has been a bit hit and miss but that's another story).

So last night he woke at 2.30 which is the earliest he has woken in about a month. He seemed hungry though so I fed him. He also seemed hot so I changed him into something a bit cooler. It took him about 15 minutes of whinging to get back to sleep which was longer than usual but not too serious. But then he woke up again ten minutes later crying hysterically, I went straight into him as it is so unlike him but he seemed to be fine, I settled him a bit then went back to bed, crying started again and again he sounded really upset. Went back in and ended up feeding him again even though he'd only been fed an hour ago, he was falling asleep on the boob but as soon as I put hi
back in the cot the crying started again. He eventually fell asleep at about 4.15, but not really a deep sleep as he cried out at 4.45 and woke up briefly at 5 and then cried out again at about 5.30. Then up for the day in rotten form at 6.45. I didn't get back to sleep at all after 2.30 so I'm totally shattered!

So what was that all about??? Does anyone have any ideas? He's not showing any signs of teething at the moment so I don't think it's that. I do wonder if he might be coming down with something, he didn't really touch his breakfast this morning and he does seem a tiny bit snuffly. Have been googling sleep regression (still on OH's iPhone arggh!!), I really hope it's just a once off. I guess it serves me right for feeling so secretly smug when all the other mums were complaining about their babies sleep at the breast feeding group yesterday!!

Tennisgal - can't believe you are having internet problems too! What a coincidence! We actually could have been back on line on Monday but we were just so browned off that we cancelled our subsciption so now we have to wait to get set up with another provider.

Lana - welcome! I started sleepsense with Thomas when he was almost four months but he started self-settling at bedtime at three months. I didn't feel ready to start any younger because he suffered a lot with wind so I didn't feel comfortable to allow him to cry in the cot. It's your call really what you are comfortable with, if you would be happier waiting a couple of weeks it will do no harm and it might be easier for your LO to learn to self settle in another few weeks? But others have got good results with young babies so it's your call.

Have to go, Thomas has just woken up from his nap after just 30 minutes, this is just so unlike him, not good! Feel a bit worried now.

 

[lanaross]

I put her down walk out and come back two minutes later after she cries. I pick her up and she sobs but calms down right away, then the second I put her down she screams bloody murder. I gave it five minutes tops but couldn't bear any longer. She settles herself brilliantly at nap time, never gave me any problems but at night it's just insane. I gave her a bath and instead of her falling asleep feeding I kept her up as much as I could so she must have been frustrated at it to begin with. Maybe I should start in stages? For nighttime routine I picked a shower with me, new clothes, feed and then bed - all happened within an hour of her waking up from last nap and I can tell she was sleepy, starting to yawn and giving the seven mile stare. I also thought maybe she was hungry again as it seems like she's going through a growth spurt at the moment but the minute I put her to my breast she's either starting to fall asleep or cries. It's also super tough with her to read whether she's hungry or trying to soothe herself -- she puts her fingers in her mouth in both cases. How do I make sure?? Without getting her on breast? I think when she's not hungry she's pushing away from me but when she's hungry she gets closer? but then again sometimes I think she's looking for a nipple but she's just getting comfortable on me and falls asleep. I can't figure it out.

Also how long did it take you guys first night? I put her down at around 7:30/8 and she screamed till 9. Then my OH took her to grandma and she didnt even calm down with the car ride,that's how frustrated she was so at 10pm they fed her 2oz of formula and she was still in distress. That's probably overtired by then, but if I go with the plan, she will be overtired no matter what right? I might wait till three months but she's now 13.8 pounds and I honestly can't carry her anymore for 20 minutes before she falls asleep. It also doesn't make sense when she falls asleep eating, because sometimes she wakes up and doesn't even eat, maybe for two minutes and falls back asleep.

THanks for your help ladies xx

 

[lanaross]

also did you guys go through all ten days of this sleep training? My OH comes home from work at around 8-8:30 so it's a little tight on timing, most of the time he comes home when she's asleep already. Seems like he will need to take some time off when we sleep train no? My mom is also coming in a month to help, so maybe I will recruit her

 

[nenee]

Hi

can anyone clarify what AWAKE time my 9 wk old should have now i was told 45 minutes for her when she was 4 wks but shes older now so im confused been putting her for nap around 1 hr to 1 and 30 mins lately?

shes doing so well still without her dummy so glad i got rid of that prop

nenee

 

[PieMistress]

neenee - this is quite a useful link advising approximate awake times for babies of different ages:

https://blogginaboutbabies.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/infant-schedules/

to everybody else too. We are also going through a bit of a curve ball with regards to sleep - naps especially. Kyle has been having brilliant 1.5hr - 2hr naps twice a day but now, for his first nap cannot go past 45 mins (we even had a day when he refused to sleep at all and only howl?!).

Am having several trains of thought on this - a) he no longer needs that much daytime sleep b) he has forgotten about sucking his thumb which is how he used to self settle c)too much stimulation before nap time - have addressed this d) he can now go nearer 2.25hrs awake time rather than 2hrs (I don't think it is this as he is still showing tired signs and can't go that long in the morning before his first nap).

Ho Hum! Will be back tomorrow, just catching up on Luther (brilliant!) and now time for bed ..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hi to all though!!!!! xx

 

[hivechild]

Polaris - I'm not sure exactly how old Thomas is in weeks, but around 29-30 weeks, they apparently go through a fussy and cranky period as they're learning/have realized that their mummy can walk away and leave them behind. Then from about week 33-34, they start gearing up for another developmental leap around 37 weeks so can be unsettled through that period, too. I've said it before but again, I highly recommend the book 'The Wonder Weeks.'

Lana - In the beginning, we could spend 2 hours from start of the bedtime routine until Ronan finally fell asleep. I was beginning to wonder whether what we were actually doing was working or if he was just falling asleep from exhaustion, but then I started his bedtime routine earlier, pretty much as soon as he woke up from his last nap we got ready for our bath and I didn't dawdle about it and I started seeing better results almost from the get go. At first, he wasn't falling asleep until 9:30pm but now he's a little more predictable with his napping toward the end of the day and he is usually down between 7:30-8pm most nights.

Because he was so young in the beginning, I didn't push it too hard and was a little laid back on the 'rules' after the first few weeks. I gave him long enough to figure out what the deal was and for it to click with him, and for me to better get a grasp on how he coped with self settling.

I'm not ashamed to say that even today if he's really overtired and having a tough time, I will give him extra cuddles and either nurse him to sleep or as near to sleep as can be so that he can go down in his cot and fall asleep on his own. It's not something I do consistently or often enough for it to become habit, but the way I figure it, is if our milk is specifically geared to calm and relax, and make them sleepy then why fight nature? I know he can settle alone but I will still be there for those times when he needs me close to help him.

While it may be hard for you now, remember that it won't always be so hard, and that you don't have to NEVER let them fall asleep while nursing. You just have to be mindful to not let it become habit again.

Oh, as far as your DH goes...I know it's tough with him coming home late, but one thing we both found early on was that if he could see me sitting by his cot or I was close by, Ronan would get worked up so much quicker than if his daddy was close at hand and was the one to comfort him. I know you want your LO to be able to settle with you putting her to bed, but it might be helpful in the beginning if mummy and mummy's milk aren't in the forefront. I was usually in the same room, but once I'd nursed him, he was given to daddy to put down and he was the one that sat beside him and picked him up and cuddled him and put him back down again.

Whenever you do decide that you're all ready for it, stay strong and I wish you all the best in getting through it in the beginning. Remember that we're all here for support!

Neenee - If Ronan has only catnapped for short periods of time he can only stay awake for 45 mins - 1 1/15 hours. Only recently has that stretched out further by 15-30 minutes or so longer. Glad to hear she's doing well without her dummy!

PM - When Ronan went through his 3 month growth spurt/12 week developmental leap, his sleeping got disrupted which included his daytime napping. He went from having 2 rather lengthy naps to cat napping like your LO except for one longer nap either around lunchtime or mid-afternoon for 2-3 hours. For a few days though he wouldn't even settle for that longer nap. Who knows? Maybe your LO does just need a bit less sleep now? I wish this whole sleeping business wasn't so complicated to figure out!

Well, nothing really has changed for us. Ronan is still going down around the same time every night (and usually without any fuss), and waking between 2-5 for a feed before going back down until sometime between 7-8am. He hasn't gone to 5am for awhile now though and the last few nights it's been about 4. All said and done, I can't complain.

Today he rolled for the first time from back to front (and then cried when he got stuck face down)! He'd rolled twice from front to back when he was wee, but I think that was a bit of a fluke. It was an intentional roll today. His daddy is now all worried about him rolling over through the night but I've tried to convince him that I don't think he'll do it in his sleep just yet, and if he does it when he stirs and doesn't like it, he'll kick up a fuss and let me know! He has always had very good head control and can easily lift and turn his head from side to side.

Oh, and his other new trick is popping off the boob mid-feed to suck on his thumb for a few seconds before going back to nursing. I can't figure that one out!

Once again, lots of sleepy vibes for a good night's sleep for all.

 

[cutie4evr01]

Well done Ronan for rolling!! That is so terrific! C just started rolling back to front a week ago or so and now does everytime we put her down, but has yet to do so in her crib. I think she's usually so tired when she goes in her crib that she doesn't have the energy to. Although I have gone in to find her in the morning flipped around so her head is towards the opposite end from how I laid her, so I imagine she probably could roll is she really wanted to. I wouldn't worry though - I'm sure if he didn't want to be on his tummy he would cry out for you, and everything I've read says it's fine for them to sleep on their tummy so long as they rolled there themselves.

C slept great last night after a few rough days/nights. She went 6:50-6:50 with only one feed at 3. The few days before that though she has only managed 8-9 hours at night, usually with 2 wakings, and 3 very short daytime naps. She has a cold, so she is very congested - I think this is keeping her up. Also she's been sick a bit more than usual, and bringing up clear liquid rather than her usual milky looking spitup, so I think it's affecting her tummy also. I hate when she's sick, and wish there was something I could do to help.

I've noticed the past few days if I take her in for a nap at the first eye rub, she will scream and scream, even in my arms on the way into her room as if she knows what's coming. Sometimes after a few minutes I will get her back up to play for 15-20 more minutes and try again, and she will then go down very easily. I wonder if she is getting to the age where she can stay up a bit longer between naps? But she it still doing that one eye rub at the usual time, so I'm not really sure. This sleep is so hard to figure out!

I hope you all had a good night!

 

[polaris]

Hivechild - thanks so much, Thomas is exactly 30 weeks so that would fit perfectly. Last night was much better thank god, so hopefully we might be through the worst of it.

Cutie I would try keeping your Lo up a bit longer and see if it helps with settling.

PM it is all so complicated isn't it? But it does keep us on our toes trying to work them out. I found that Thomas went through quite a long phase of short naps and nothing seemed to work to extend them. I would guess that your LO will probably go back to longer naps as he gets a bit older. Also I find that Thomas can manage longer awake time as the day progresses, he still only does about 2 hours before morning nap but can manage 3 or even 3.25 before bedtime.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

 

[jacs]

Hi All!

Well we had a fab hol in the Lakes - Evan napped better than he ever has done (must be the fresh air!), and has been great since we got back. Every night we were away he woke at 10pm, but it stopped as soon as we were home thank goodness!

HC - that's really interesting about the weeks, Evan also was very fussy around 30 weeks (woke twice a night), then it just stopped.

cutie -I find the same thing when I put Evan down at the first sleepy sign. Now I just change his activity and he is happy to carry on a bit longer.

PM - Evan also has certain naps that are always short. It could be that Kyle just needs a bit less sleep as he gets older and has better nights. What's his mood like after his short nap?

lanaross - welcome! We had about 30-45mins crying the first night, and that was about it. We didn't need to be with Evan after the first couple of nights, so no, we didn't need the full amount. Every baby's different though, so I guess you don't know until it happens! You could start SS during DH's days off, and then continue yourself when he's back at work. I think the first night or two are the worst generally.

 

[hivechild]

Cutie, glad that your LO is doing so well at night! I am beginning to wonder if I'm not trying to get Ronan to sleep too early nowadays for his naps since he seems to want to/be able to stay awake longer. I usually start to wind down/get into nap mode when he starts getting red around the eyes but I think I'm going to have to try waiting a bit more.

Polaris, great to hear that Thomas did much better last night as well. Hopefully he gets back into the rhythm of things quickly.

jacs, welcome back from holidays! Good boy Evan for being so great the whole time, and in settling back in when he got home. Hubby and I have been talking about getting away for a weekend to see how Ronan does before planning a week vacation somewhere. I really want to get away but at the same time I'm so worried that it will just go awfully and he'll be a right terror to get to sleep!

On the 30 weeks thing, it really is interesting. Now that Ronan is here, I've been spending time (when I can find it) reading up on early infant/childhood development and it's making me slightly regretful that I ditched university 4 years into my degree (in psychology with an intent to major in child psych), to bum around and see the world. Of course I wouldn't be here if I hadn't done it...but you know how it goes...

Sleep well all! I got a grand total of 3 hours sleep last night, through no one's fault but my own of course. Everyone else in the house slept great. Wish me luck that I can sleep better tonight!

 

[Cattia]

Nice to see so many people around on the thread again. Hive, loved your pics of LO in baby club, he is soooooo cute! Sounds as though he is doing great with his rolling too! Abigail does that thing where she stops BF and puts her thumb in her mough, or sometimes her whole first. I am not sure what that's about either, I wondered if it was maybe a teething thing?

Polaris - so good to see you back! How is Thomas doing?

Jacs - glad you had a great holiday, and well done Evan for great napping :hapydance:

Cutie - my LO has been all blicke dup with a cold too, it'shorrible isn't it. Hope she feels better soon

Nenee - good skills on dumping the dummy! I bet it was hard but it must be a relief to know that LO doesn't have to rely on it any more.

TG - where are you? I miss you!

HG - Hope the holiday is going well

Lanaross - welcome! I am sure you'll notice a difference really soon. The trick is to stick to the programme. We have been slack with it for a little while now and noticing all sorts of problems starting to creep in, I need to get back to it.

Well, quick update on us; Abigal has been teething like crazy and also had a horrible cold for over a week now Her sleep has been up and down, a couple of nights she has only woke for one feed around 3am, but then we have had some nights where she has been up three or even 4 times! We are well underway wtih weaning and most of the time she seems to really enjoy solids, but she is not taking as much milk in the day. I am struggling to get as many feeds in (tbh I was feeding on demand and she was probably snacking so I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing that she is taking fewer feeds) but the feeds she does have are short and she seems easily distracted. I think she is not taking as much in the day and so wants more at night. It is not long now until she moves into her own room. I said 6 months but now it is fast approaching I don't want her to go I do think it will be best for her though, I suspect she will sleep better. I think if this whole night feeding thing doesn't sort itself out we are going to have to get tough and stop feeding her at night, but I just need to muster up the strength to do it. I am back at work in a few weeks and I need to be getting more sleep than I am a the moment!

Well, hope everyone is well, and you've enjoyed the bank holiday weekend. At least the weather is warming up again. Sleepydust to all
xx

 

[hivechild]

Cattia, thanks. I think he's pretty cute too (but being his mummy I'm hardly impartial there!). I really hope he's not teething yet. He's been pulling on and off a lot recently while nursing and cranky but I'm more inclined to think it's his reflux bothering him because he has also been crying when I sit him up to wind him. It's frustrating and a little heartbreaking at the same time.

I hope things get better for Abigail soon with the teething and cold. Poor little thing! As if one or the other isn't bad enough. As for moving her into her own room, I know it's tough (having done it myself already) but I really hope for all of you that she will sleep better and let you sleep better too. I still occasionally wake when he stirs or is chattery through the night but it'd be 10 times worse if he was in our room since he's not a quiet sleeper.

Last night kind of sucked. I know it's not awful in the grand scheme of things but he was just unsettled all night. He woke at 1:50am and went straight from sleeping to awake and crying. I got up and fed him and put him back down and I heard him cry out a couple times (just a very short burst) but he didn't actually wake fully, before I finally got back to sleep around 4:30am, only to be woken by him wailing again at 6am with a dirty diaper. Again, earlier than normal and he will normally chatter away to wake me when he poops, not cry with distress. Anyway, I fed him and put him back down. He had a little fuss and then slept another 1h 20mins until 7:40ish when he woke. I got him up and he happily hung out in the bathroom in his bouncer blowing raspberries while I took a desperately needed shower!

I'm hoping, but not hopeful that tonight will go better.

 

[nenee]

Hi ya

Is it true that babies do sleep through around 13 weeks or if they weigh 13 lbs or so, has anyone had their little do this when turned this corner?

my DD is 9 weeks and still wakes anytime from 2 am to 4 am for a feed, but she only weighs about 11 lbs, would be interesting to know is its true?

anyone know what tired signs to look out for my dd just fusses and her eyes go kinda half open but im not to sure if this is too late? usually does this around the 1hr or 1hr 10 mins mark, she can yawn as soon as she wakes up or just after 30 mins so cant go on that or sehw ould have no awake time lol.

has anyone had any experience with cow and gate comfort milk? shes eating every 3 to 3 1/2 hrs at the moment so not sure if its enough for her?

cheers

nenee

 

[Cattia]

Hi Nenee, I am not sure there is too much truth in this. Well not in our case anyway! Abigail is 24 weeks now and weight 15lbs and has never slept through! I think one of the main factors is whether they are breast fed or FF, (BF babies sleep thorugh much later as a rule) and also I think it depends on their metabolism; I have worked out that Abigail has a very quick metabolism and maybe that is why she has always fed a lot. I do also think though that some babies (and I think this might apply to her to some extent) do wake up out of habit and need to learn that they can get back to sleep without always being fed. It makes any kind of sleep training hard before 6 months because you can't know for sure that it's OK not to feed them, but I think it is always worth trying to settle them first - they will let you know if they are really hungry.

 

[lanaross]

girls don't know what to think of it -- Isabella slept through two nights again, again without me in the house, again settled really easy with DH and grandma. I on the other hand got a full blown three hours crazy last night and had to settle her by rocking again. So she settles easily at grandma's house with DH/grandma, they just put her there in the cot and start talking loudly with each other (they are Italians and DD passes out. She woke up once during the first night, realized that she's not getting me and went to sleep and slept the second night just fine. I wasn't expecting it.
We are continuing to experiment what works for her and she will go to grandma's house on Saturday during her super fussy time and we'll see whether it's the problem with our house temperature/dust/something else or maybe me. She definitely showed that she can settle herself just fine, I just don't understand why she keeps sleeping through and settling at grandma's house without me but not home.

neenee - Isabella was 12.4 when she slept through her first night, but she's well over 13 pounds now and only sleeps through periodically. What this depends on we have no idea, but definitely not on food.

hive sorry you had such a horrible night, I get nights like this once a week and don't know how to function after that.

 

[hivechild]

Neenee, I think that while some can, others sleep through much earlier weighing far less and others still much later and weighing way more. I'm not sure where the guideline came from but I think it puts undue stress on us, and our babies when it doesn't happen for us.

Like Cattia said, it's quite often a different matter especially for breastfed babies. I haven't any experience with formula, but you could try feeding her either a little more frequently or a little more in volume toward the end of the day and closer to her bedtime.

As for the tired signs, around an hour is probably a good general benchmark at her age, or at least it was for Ronan, give or take 15 mins either way depending on how well his last nap went.

Lana, well on one hand it's good that she settles and can sleep well away from home but I can imagine how it must feel when she won't do the same for you. Like I said before, it may just be habit/expectation, or being able to smell you and your milk close by. Has your DH tried settling her at home while you're not close by?

Last night here for us was much a repeat of the night before with 2 and 6am wakeups. Ah well! I've started to work on his napping in his cot today. We got 3 short half hour naps until mid afternoon when he got cranky and whingy so we took our last nap back downstairs on the couch together. Truth be told, momma needed it as much as baby!

Good sleep vibes to all for tonight.

 

[jacs]

Hey,

We've had some good nights - back to sleeping through, and naps have been great. However, last night it took nearly an hour of crying/cuddling before Evan fell asleep - very strange!

Other news - of the 53 sunflowers I planted, I now have 42 seedlings! I honestly didn't think they would grow, I'm rubbish at stuff like that. Now I'm going round the neighbours, asking if their kids want some!


HC -great start to naps! I wish Evan could still settle on me (last night was a prime example), sometimes he fights sleep so much.

lana - how frustrating! Could just be the milk thing, is it possible to do a few nights in a row where you don't get involved? Once she's in the habit of self settling she might just get on with it (and you can put your feet up for a bit!).

Cattia - how is the teething and cold? There's always something that comes along to throw everything off track! Hope LO's feeling better