Sleep Training - Full Extinction Method

[smileygurl85]

Please No judgement on the method that we've chosen to employ. You do not know our baby. After 2 months of careful consideration and 4 other methods we determined that we needed to go cold turkey so to speak.

We began Weissbluths - full extinction method of sleep training at 7 months. (That was 4 weeks ago!) I'm really not sure whether it's working. We started with the Ferber method but he would get so worked up when we went in that it seemed detrimental. So we switched to full extinction.

However our issue is not with bedtime - it is with his middle of the night wakings. He still has them. Some nights more than other. He goes to sleep between 7-8pm every night with little to no fuss but then he wakes up at 10, 1, 3 and then is up for the day at 5-5:30.

He cries for varying lengths of time every single freaking time! Anywhere from 15 minute to over an hour. If we go to him he definitely doesn't calm down unless we hold him until the morning - which is frankly unsustainable for us.

But I feel horrible just ignoring him until 5-5:30am. When I wake up in the middle of the night I want comfort. I know he does too. But how many time am I realistically supposed to go to him. I didn't sleep throughout my pregnancy and now I haven't really slept since he was born.

I'm a bitch to my husband and a worse mother on account of it. And I hate feeling like this. It's actually making me dislike the baby and is cementing in my mind that I NEVER want more children!!! Clearly something has to change.

Can anyone help me figure out if/when to go to him in the middle of the night?! Also - any words of encouragement would be nice. (Please no stupid comments like, see a shrink (already done) or that letting my baby cry is traumatizing him - trust me its worse for me because come the morning I'm the one who remembers it while he's all smiley and happygolucky.)

 

[katrinalorien]

How are his naps during the day?

 

[smileygurl85]

We've been indulging him for naps during the day because otherwise he just won't take them. If he's held, walked, and shushed then sleeps ON us we can get him to take 90 minute naps, however if put down he'll wake up 20-45 mins later - even if we go in when he starts to stir and try to get him back down.

In the last month we try to make sure that he gets 3 naps a day - with 2 as a minimum. We try not to keep him up for more than 2.5 hours at a stretch - it usually takes about 15-20 minutes of walking to get him to sleep for a nap. (We're not bothering with sleep-training for the naps because I don't want to deal with a chronically overtired baby. We tried it a few times with the 'leave him in his crib for 1 hr and he'll realize that naptime is for sleeping' - but that failed miserably.)

He eats 5 bottles (180-210 ml each) - 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6:30-7pm and he gets a 'solid' snack at 10-10:30ish and then a meal at 5pm (to help stretch to his last bottle) - he's not waking because he's hungry at night (because the few times we tried to offer him a bottle he actually refused it) he just wants to be cuddled and to sleep ON us. (It's not enough to let him sleep in our bed. He literally wants to be ON us - preferably walking.)

 

[katrinalorien]

Hmmm have you fed him in the past at that time? He may be used to a bottle at that time, then you could do the gradual weaning method, and then he may go off of it. That's my first suggestion. My second suggestion would be the wake to sleep method, where you wake him before hand and he falls asleep and sleeps through. I think both of those are in Dr. W's book but I'm not 100% certain.

I was just wondering if he was chronically overtired or whatever, but it sounds like you are doing what you can for naps.

Do you know why he is waking at that point? Habit? Hungry? Cold? Maybe you could fix the problem and it will go away. You said he self settles at the beginning of the night, does he do it at any other point in the night?

 

[Reno]

Can't advise, but hope or works for you! We need to do something drastic with night sleep, but neither me or DH have the stamina to let him cry!

Tonight is the first night in about 3 weeks that he IS spending the night in his cot (3am, so far so good but he's been up 4 times and had 2 feeds). I am not backing down! Once we get him in his cot I think he will eventually wake less!

 

[ChristinaG]

My LO just started waking at 12am and 5:00am (ready for the day) ugh...
Last night I gave him his dinner (rice and veggies) at 6:00pm, bath at 6:15 and an 8oz bottle at 6:30 and he slept till 6:30am! no fuss....tonight he's already woken twice and I haven't even gone to bed yet! lol

have you tried the shush/pat or pickup/put down? He may just ned to learn to soothe himself, and these methods are great for letting him know you're there, but getting him to settle on his own. Remember it takes 4-5 nights of CONSISTENCY before ruling out a method all together.

Good luck

 

[SarahBear]

My suggestion is to trust your instinct. Do what feels right. If what you're doing feels right, stick with it. If it doesn't feel right. Change it!

 

[Tazi88]

Why not more solids? That's a lot of milk for an 8 month old. Our guy didn't start sttn until he was on 3 solid meals plus 3 feeds. I'd try moving to more solids. He may be hungrier than you realise. Our guy was also a need to be walked baby which was killing me. We went cold turkey on the walking as he was getting to heavy. Instead I rocked him in the glider which he didn't like but after two weeks as soon as I sit in it he's asleep. It might be one way to break it into steps for him. Now if he night wakes we rock him in his cot by shiggling him back and forth. It's worked for us really well. He's having an issue transitioning from one sleep cycle to the next so I'd just go get him when he wakes for naps which is a pain but letting him sleep on you during transitions is no good. Do you use white noise? That might help too. Good luck and it will get better!

 

[jade1991]

Id say more solids aswell. LO went through 6 month regression and after that she was waking up at 5 am every morning. Added an extra solid and she slept through again. She has 3 8oz bottles and 3 meals a day and sleeps 730-730. You could always give it a try?
Hope things work out for you!x

 

[Bumblebee117]

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it will work. Like you - I haven't slept since I was about 26 weeks pregnant and one of my LOs started waking me up to 30 times a night 2 weeks ago and I don't see myself coping much longer.

My mum says he might be hungry but I can't force him to have more food than he wants. Maybe try what pps said and feed him more solids. Mine has more solids than milk so will try more milk.

Lots of strength to you! xxx

 

[smileygurl85]

Thank you ladies! I will try adding an extra solid and cutting back / redistributing his bottles - maybe 4 bottles of 6oz (instead of 5 of 6-7oz) and I'll add in a proper solid lunch.

He's a big boy but he's got reflux issues so we can't feed him too much at a time (probably my fault since I've got: IBS, fructose malabsorption and a tiny stomach to boot.)

I guess it's time to sit down and work out some sort of schedule. We'll start on Sunday when we get back from another routine-disrupting (but always fun) weekend at the grandparents.

Again. Thanks for all of your suggestions and support. I don't know how I'd manage without the amazing support on this site.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Do you think he could be in pain? That's why he's waking and crying? You said yourself he has reflux. Crying could be making it worse.

 

[Rainbow7]

Really feel for you hun as we are currently going through similar and this morning I was so tired I forgot how to put my arm into a cardigan!!!! Sending hugs to you xxxxx

 

[jenn2282]

question cause i have a almost 8 month old that wakes a lot in the night. whats the min formula for the day?she has 2 meals a day but you have me tempted to add the 3rd.she dropped to 20-21oz though

we added white noise and she is slowly learning to get back to sleep on her own, it's hit and miss but she still sick.

 

[izzlesnizzle]

Like you i havent slept since before i was pregnant. I had morning sickness in the night and one thing after another keeping me awake most of the night and LO hasnt sttn since 11 wks (she gave us a 3 week block between 8-11 wks) and shes 6 mths now. Sleep has been dreadful the past 2 wks especially. Same as you almost, waking at 11pm every 2-3 hrs and sometimes awake 1.5 hrs at a time.

She goes to bed at 6.30pm, i made it 7pm last night and she went through til 2am then awake again at 5am. I have upped her solids today, adding in breakfast aswell as dinner and the HV said introduce 3 meals from next week so im hoping things will improve but today i had to call in the troops (the in laws) to take her out as i collapsed in a heap this morning and balled my eyes out coz i cant take it anymore. I dont know how much further my tiredness can stretch until i spontaneously combust.

 

[aliss]

I would stop this method.

Please understand, I am not judging you for being fed up with this - but these methods IMO should NEVER be used with a reflux baby. Reflux babies don't always get acid flare ups because of food (generally always with food but sometimes without) and prolonged crying will make it worse. My son had reflux for 14 months, yes he slept like crap, but I'm afraid with reflux we must pick our poison.

You cannot force a reflux baby to sleep well and whether or not they "know" to sleep, they sometimes need more comfort than a non-reflux baby. It hurts!

I wish you the best, but I'm afraid that you may be making his physical pain worse by using this method. As I said, I am not judging your method, but these methods are not meant to be used on babies with this medical condition.

 

[aliss]

Do you think he could be in pain? That's why he's waking and crying? You said yourself he has reflux. Crying could be making it worse.

Using CIO on reflux babies can actually make it much worse as they then begin to associate sleep with pain even more.

 

[SabrinaKat]

Is your LO possibly teething? My LO was pretty good (naps and sleeping from 10 to 6am (not traditional sttn, but it was okay for us!) and since he has had a cold along with teething, Finn is waking up alot more....(2 am, 5 am....he can self-soothe, but at the moment, it's hell with this cold, my cold, his teething (I have sympathy teething pains in my wisdom teeth area (had it pulled years ago, but....), etc.

also, I would check regarding reflux (my LO had and when he's not well, it's formula back up etc), we took our LO to the doctor to double-check everything and he suggested also giving water (we use a sippy cup at night, 'regular' plastic one during the day) as LO might be thirsty as well?

best wishes and good luck!

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Do you think he could be in pain? That's why he's waking and crying? You said yourself he has reflux. Crying could be making it worse.

Using CIO on reflux babies can actually make it much worse as they then begin to associate sleep with pain even more.

That's what I thought.

 

[smileygurl85]

He doesn't have diagnosed reflux. Just to clarify. He's never gotten medicated for any health-issue and so far 4 separate drs have told me that he has no digestive issues. However we did switch him to soy formula at 6 months (against the drs advice) because he spit up SO much on dairy formula from 0-6months and I thought it was a combo issue of dairy and reflux.

The reason I don't think that he wakes up because of pain is because if he is being held he will sleep happily but even put down sitting or inclined in a stroller he will cry the same way that he did in his crib. (He's suuuuper needy during the day - so I wear him A LOT - even to go pee! - but I need a little space at night. He definitely wouldn't be held 1/4 as much if he went to a daycare but his insane clingy-ness is making me consider it more seriously.)

We give him water. And while he may be teething - he's never been an offical 'sttn'er (we never made it to 5 hours.) so at a certain point things need to change/be changed.