Sometimes I feel like...

[Seraphim]

...Throwing my hands up in the air?? No - that isn't what I was going to say

Sometimes I feel like I'm alone in having 'faith' in my baby.

Maybe it's just because I read a lot of BnB... but from she was born I wasn't giving myself a headache that she was trying to manipulate me, or that I was making a 'rod for my own back' (although I confess to wondering if I might regret my actions a teensy bit later) But I decided that she would never be more in need than when she was new.

I guess I'm lucky to have had a lot of support from my husband... although I have to say it took him a while to realise newborns have no skill to manipulate

I loved watching supernanny etc... but I'm getting a sick feeling that the world we're currently living in is filling parents heads full of crap

 

[lfernie]

^^^^ totally agree. I swear people think that babies are aliens sent here to manipulate us all and I was saying to OH the other day when people talk about CIO or CC 'if they're clean and fed and crying there's nothing wrong with them' well I'm usually clean and fed but I don't particularly want to be left alone in a room shouting and no one answering me. I understand it maybe in older babies but not the wee ones. What if theyve got an itchy nose and they can't even get their hand to their face to scratch it x

 

[Rachel_C]

I feel the same! I was wondering yesterday when exactly humans started to think babies want stuff rather than need it. To me, a baby crying for a hug needs a hug, not just wants one. When did we start thinking that babies should have strict feeding schedules and drink from bottles and sleep far away from us?! It seems bizarre really!

 

[enola]

I'm reading an absolutely GORGEOUS book at the moment (got it dirt cheap second hand on Amazon - worth a look if you're interested) called The Baby Book by Sears & Sears. I'm sure some of you will have heard of it
It just flips the modern day concepts on their heads, but gives scientific, medical and logical reasons to back it up, which I think might be invaluable in defending my beliefs about loving my baby like the person he is rather than training him like a dog. I'm so not looking forward to health visitors and people like that probing into why I want to do things like co-sleep and babywear
Really wonderful to hear that other mums are being strong and having faith in their babies and themselves - you're all an inspiration to a newbie like me.

 

[thelilbump]

I might be a bit late but i might try and read that book over the summer out of interest!

 

[Kaites]

The Sears have another book called "Attachment Parenting" which is excellent- I'm guessing it's probably similar to their baby book. We had been doing AP from the start but it was nice to read a book that backed up what we were doing (I used to call it "caveman parenting" before I knew the name ). The Sears website has a lot of the same info that is in the book too

 

[Seraphim]

Sounds really interesting

I should say, I don't blame people for acting that way.
I see it as a lack of faith in the process rather than a meanness.
I'm just sad for us as a society that it seems to be this way.

 

[vanessayogini]

Sounds really interesting

I should say, I don't blame people for acting that way.
I see it as a lack of faith in the process rather than a meanness.
I'm just sad for us as a society that it seems to be this way.

i completely agree. and it is sad.

when we (humans) still lived in tribes having babies with us was part of every day life. we cooked, gathered, weaved or did whatever our daily tasks were to make the tribe work with our babies in our laps or bound to us. i'm sure there was little concern about "spoiling" a baby or sleep habits, etc. and though we've moved non comparably so far ahead technologically and psychologically, i try and remember how us humans did things for thousands and thousands of years before things changed so radically.

 

[anothersquish]

I despair sometimes, when people say things like "I dont want him to get used to being held" and the like. How is it that picking up and holding a baby has developed into a bad thing? Why is it that people want babies that sleep 12 hours a night from 2 weeks old, want babies they can leave in bouncers and swings 20 hours a day and not have them cry, they want babies that dont "comfort" suck, babies that go 4 hours between feeds at all times...when did it all become normal??
The things people do to try and force their child into the patterns they want is pretty distressing at times, CIO, babyrice/rusks in bottles before bed at 3 months old (or younger!), feeding on set routines, always having baby in a pram or chair never carrying or picking them up. *sigh*

 

[TigerLady]

I was just debating with someone today about babies being able to manipulate. She swears they can and do... I don't think they do. She says she knows a child psychologist that swears they do, too.

Personally, I think they have needs and expect them to be met. Full stop. That is not manipulation. It is them simply saying "I need attention, changed, fed, cuddled, held, etc." They don't understand the world from another's point of view and so can't understand that it might not be a convienent time for you to meet that need.

I have just started moving LO into his own room for the night. I really didn't want to stop co-sleeping yet, but I can't get him to start dropping his night feeds any other way. He is 7 months old and still feeding 9 times or more a day (4 in the night).

Most ppl I know think I am LONG overdue in moving him and am nuts for sleeping in his room with him for now to help him adjust slowly. I, on the other hand, feel like I am a mean mommy for trying to get him to do sleep in his own room! But I REALLY need him to drop a couple of feeds (both because he HAS to slow down his weight gain and I NEED some decent sleep before I crumble into a complete and permanent zombie).

:sigh: I am rambling now. Sorry.

Anyway... it saddens me how many ppl think I am nuts for being as much of an AP as I can. But I have a happy, thriving baby. To me that is the proof that it works.

 

[adzuki]

I was just debating with someone today about babies being able to manipulate. She swears they can and do... I don't think they do. She says she knows a child psychologist that swears they do, too.

Personally, I think they have needs and expect them to be met. Full stop. That is not manipulation. It is them simply saying "I need attention, changed, fed, cuddled, held, etc." .

This is a really interesting point TL - I often wonder if, in our society, when someone needs something and asks for it in an indirect way, people feel manipulated. Well if asking for things in an indirect way is manipulative, then I guess babies (who by nature lack the ability to be direct) could be construed as being manipulative. But dear God thinking that their manipulation is in any way negative is just SILLY. Why is it that some people think that anything other than food, sleep, and a clean bum is unnecessary for a baby - I think THE most important thing for a baby is security! Maybe I'm just biased because Miss M is very sensitive and touchy, and I've worked SOOOO hard to help her feel secure, and I've seen what a HUGE difference it can make. I dunno. Guess I'm preaching to the choir though!


A

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

Dr. Sears just about saved my sanity one hard night. From the very beginning I've loved having Molly close, sleeping on/with me, preferring her sling to her pram and generally always wanting to be close but when we got to about 7 weeks it seemed like she was never happy, always fussing and crying and I started to wonder if I'd done it all wrong and I was sick of seeing people talking about how their baby was "content" to sleep in their crib, all night and how content they were generally.

I stumbled across his website and the way he described his 4th baby, his daughter, was JUST like Molly... and I realised it wasn't anything I was doing wrong, because... if a family of paediatricians were going through the same, I just couldn't have been too far off the mark. Ever since Molly hit 9 weeks she's been a completely different baby! People are always commenting about how happy, content and chatty she is. She really likes the sound of her own voice and I've never felt so proud of myself for making the choices that I did.

She's still very much attached but then, I am too and loving every second!

It's really easy to feel undermined by other people's ideas when you see that their babies seem happier but it really does pay off to stick to your guns and believe in what you're doing. Mummy knows best But thank god for Dr. Sears for helping me see that I wasn't doing anything wrong and giving me more confidence in my parenting abilities.

 

[Seraphim]

I think so much of it has to do with perception.

I saw someone discussing 'fake coughing'.

Now, if you just look at 'baby doesn't have a cough/need to clear their throat' then I guess you could call it fake. But the way I see it, that's making alot of assumptions.

If LO has discovered that they can make 'a noise' and you attend... what's wrong with that? How is that turned into weak parenting and not looked on as a wonderfully communicative baby??

LO doesn't know that a cough sound makes you worry they might be ill... they have no concept of 'might be ill'

 

[JayleighAnn]

I hear ya there! I'm sick of people telling me that I'm making a rod for my own back, is my baby STILL breastfed and STILL in our bed, why do I have him in a sling everywhere permanently attached to my hip. apparently I need to let him CIO/CC for his own good??? Own bloody good?? ARGHHH I spoil him, he's a mammys boy, he will grow up with no sense of individuality blah blah frigging BLAH

I just feel like screaming "Leave me the hell alone!! It's our choice how we bring up our child so STFU!!!!"

The rest of the world can't understand why the Western World want to have their children in their own bed, fed by bottles, spoon fed, constantly left alone and left to cry at bedtime when they dont go straight to sleep. Why have we divided ourselves so much?

 

[Kota]

I've had this 'discussion' with my mother already numerous times, I mistakenly told her that I spent a couple of nights on the couch with Phoenix sleeping on my chest, and that he for his day time naps slept in my arms unless I absolutely needed to do something that required putting him in his basket.
She keeps telling me that "these babies are smarter then we give them credit for, and that by answering his every cry I'm creating problems for myself later on, and that I should just let him CIO."
WTF??? He's 4wks old!!! I'm NOT letting my 4wk old scream and cry himself to sleep.
I figure if she's right and he's 'smart enough to be manipulating me' then he's also smart enough to figure otu that crying doesn't get a reaction and that no one is there to care for him... I don't want my baby thinking his mummy doesn't care enough to come pick him up and give him a cuddle when he cries...

 

[gina8177]

Sneaking in from second tri... I feel strongly about AP and so does my DH (the Dr. Sears book help bring him around).

I've already dealt with my aunt telling me that I am stupid for wanting to have baby sleep in my room and that I will regret it and never sleep. It's not about my sleep, it's about me wanting to be their for my son and respond to his needs.

And then last night my MIL went on and on about how when people visit I can't let them hold the baby a lot or else he'll get used to it and always want to be held and it's way to easy to spoil them that way... it was hard to bite my tongue. All I know is at the moment I am actually happy that we live far from our family because they are going to put up a lot of resistence to our choices.

But I believe that baby's & children have needs and the only way they will get filled is if we fill those needs. If they can't communicate to us and rely on us to fill those needs, what kind of lesson are they learning, they're learning that we are not going to be there for them when they need us the most.

 

[anothersquish]

Reminds me actually after reading some more of this that people seem to expect babies not to go through "stages" of being settled and unsettled and literally EXPECT them to always be one way and they try and "fix" things in too drastic a way....I mean Im all for trying different things to help stop a baby screaming the house down, like different music, rocking, bouncing, swaddling etc etc its just that it seems to be taken to extremes to try and stop a child going through completely natural stages of development. I mean all the 'books' do inform people that babies have growth spurts, that they teeth and can generally go through stages of being more grumpy than others yet people either end up feeling like they have done something wrong when it happens and doesnt go away within a few days or they panic and try and do something drastic to make it stop (like putting rusks/baby rice in a bottle, CIO and so on)
I recognise in myself that sometimes Im keen to "fix" something that doesnt actually need fixing, its just something normal that I need to manage and cope with for a few days/weeks and then it will improve naturally.
Wonder if the expectation of things always goes the same way come from the same people who we have been quoting through the entire thread?

 

[Monkeh]

Great thread. My Mum is completely with me on the AP front, but my Dad keeps making comments. Tonight I was saying to him how Dexter's going through the separation anxiety phase, and he commented 'maybe it's just because you let him sleep in bed with you those times.' I replied that he sleeps in with me every night, and got a dirty look in return. Also got dirty looks when the subject of immunisations came up but that's a whole other story.

Anyway, just wanted to say great thread

 

[mommyof3co]

I guess I was lucky in a way that when we really started doing AP with casen we were 1000mi away from family. I had already been through alot with Landon and realized what was normal stages but he was very independent from birth, he didn't like to be held too much, he really liked his own space and wouldn't cosleep. So we parented different, I would def still say child-led, but not AP to the T because he wasn't the type that liked some aspects of it. We have used more AP as he's gotten older, such as gentle discipline, just some things such as cosleeping and alot of babywearing didn't work for his personality.

With Casen though he was so attached to me from birth, I honestly think it had alot to do with his birth. But he needed me all the time, he coslept from the day we came home from the hospital, he nursed longer, he couldn't be on his own very much so we did baby wearing alot with him. We more fell into it because we still did child-led. We really didn't have anyone there to criticize since we were so far away from family, and I could see it working so it really woudln't have mattered to me. But I've SEEN it work, I've seen how it has benefited Casen. He is not more dependent because of it but instead the opposite, he knows we are always there, it has encouraged him to be more independent then I feel he would have been otherwise. CIO would have never worked for him, it took all of 1min for him to be blue and not able to breathe because he's always been very sensitive, he gets worked up very quickly. He is still like that in some ways, but alot of it is personality, he is very "OCD". And yes he's still very sensitive but he has come so far and I really think it has all to do with the way we have parented him. I fully believe in AP and really don't care what others think, it works for our family We had done more research into it before Hayden was born, with Casen I really didn't have a name with it, just did what worked for him. And we planned to use it with Hayden and we've seen the same results. He isn't as much of a high maitenence baby as Casen was but things that normal toddlers would ahve a hard time with, such as being left with a babysitter he doesn't have a hard time with. He was about 22mo before we left him at all and when we did he waved goodbye and was just fine, no tears, I really feel it's because he had that bond with us, that trust, he knew we were coming back and he was safe where we left him.

But yeah I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really care what others think lol. I don't question what we do and I do alot that is far from mainstream, I know we do what's best for our family. But I do just shake my head at some threads I see (here and other places) that people think babies would be manipulative...I really don't get that. Or people making a point not to hold their babies "too much"....makes no sense to me...

 

[moomoo]

I think so much of it has to do with perception.

I saw someone discussing 'fake coughing'.

Now, if you just look at 'baby doesn't have a cough/need to clear their throat' then I guess you could call it fake. But the way I see it, that's making alot of assumptions.

If LO has discovered that they can make 'a noise' and you attend... what's wrong with that? How is that turned into weak parenting and not looked on as a wonderfully communicative baby??

LO doesn't know that a cough sound makes you worry they might be ill... they have no concept of 'might be ill'

I used to do this when i was a baby, my mum said i used to do this and she would come running!! I think it's definitely a sign of an assertive baby..

I think you are right 100% a baby doesnt do it to annoy, or worry you!!!!