Space between embryo and sac?

[jojokate]

We are so upset and frustrated. My partner had her first US yesterday at 7 weeks exactly. We have being TTC thru a fertility clinic for 1.5 years and got our first BFP last month. Her HCG level was 90 13dpo, 150 at 15 dpo and then 724 on 22dpo.
Her first TVUS was yesterday and the doctor basically said she's not sure what she is seeing and wants us to book another US next week with the main hospital with a tech that won't discuss the results (they get sent to clinic for them to review with us) She mentioned that the sac is the right size and the embryo is the right size but the space between is not big enough? Then we asked if there is a heartbeat and she said uh yes I saw a flickering which would be the heartbeat but we just have to wait until next week because she doesn't know what to make of it all!
This is a doctor who does this for a living - she's a fertility clinic dr and sees all sorts of scenarios every day and she can't explain what she's seeing?!? It has sent us both into a panic!
I think this has to be the worse news to receive as we are not sure if our pregnancy is viable or not... basically told to worry but not sure why...

We've decided to go to our GP for the ultrasound next week as she has much better bedside manners - but I don't know how we are going to keep sane until then. I just keep talking to my wife's belly and telling the embryo to keep fighting through this and we promise to take care of him/her the rest of their lives - I just need the little bean to hold on and fight!

I know there isn't much this forum can do but send well wishes - I just needed to get this out... maybe someone else has gone thru this too... I just read all the support on this site and think everyone is just amazing...

Thanks for listening... going to the store for some bubble wrap so I can wrap my wife up and protect them both for the next 7 months!

 

[kat2504]

I'm sorry you are going through all this worry, I know it is an awful time.

It's sad to say but often when they tell you something is wrong they are right. Not always though, and often they are happy to panic people when really it is too early to tell for sure how things are going.
One good sign is the HCG numbers are rising at an almost doubling rate. I don't understand the "space between" thing at all though. There are two sacs, the big gestational sac and the smaller yolk sac inside it. Perhaps the gestational sac is too small compared with the embryo inside it? A small sac is one thing they look for to predict a negative outcome.

At this stage I would cautiously wait and give it more time. The doctor that did this was not actually an ultrasound technician. A proper tech may be more skilled at knowing what to look for. Do you have a written report of the size of the things they saw? I have done a lot of Dr Googling on early ultrasound myself when I have been in your exact same position and I may be able to help. But obviously only the medical experts can tell you what is going on in your case.
I know it is hard to keep sane when you are having to wait. At 8 weeks you should get a much better idea of what is really going on and I have my fingers crossed for you that your doctor was wrong. Early scanning is often not reliable. Hang on in there for now!

 

[jojokate]

Thanks Kat2504 for such a quick response.

I think you might be right about the size of the gestational sac vs embryo - we have both been replaying the 5 minute visit and getting confused on what was actually said. They didn't give us a report but I did get a glimpse of the print out that showed our baby at the right size. The clinic does all cycle monitoring and early US onsite with the dr - no actual tech so I'm hoping the tech will pull some positive images.

I have to stop googling because it's just making me crazy at the moment - one site says don't worry it will correct itself... others say it's just a matter of time!

Thanks so much for your support and response- it's so hard to be strong for my partner and yet go through all kinds of emotions myself. I'm so thankful to have people like you to turn to.

 

[michelleyboo4]

Oh dont worry! The U/S tech said there was a gap between me LO's sac and baby but its normal from what i was told because the unbilical cord and yolk sac... If its got a heartbeat it should be fine it usually means there is fluid seperating it. I should have posted my first u/s with the baby cuz you can see its kinda far from the sac but the little tiger is doing fine a strong HB of 167 at 8w 1d It is definitely normal.. Dont fret yourselves dear

 

[kat2504]

The gestational sac ought to be at least 5mm bigger than the embryo. If it isn't then unfortunately that is usually bad news. However, it is not certain that this is what your doctor actually said. Basically if the sac is too small for the baby, it is not growing big enough to hold enough amniotic fluid. This is a chance genetic event and not due to anything you could have done or not done.
As michelle says, a heartbeat is a good sign. If you are not happy with what info you have been given, get on the phone to your doctor and ask them to properly explain, including the measurements, what was seen. It is very hard to take in everything they tell you when you are there and in a panic.

 

[michelleyboo4]

There's also the old wives tale of drinking lots of water to make the sac bigger not sure if it works thought :/

 

[kat2504]

No, it doesn't but having a full bladder does give you a clearer ultrasound picture. The amniotic fluid is not in any way connected to your bladder, you can't make more of it by drinking more.

 

[no drama mama]

Actually in the early stages, amniotic fluid comes from our bodies. So if we're dehydrated, we won't be able to produce as much. I think it's around 20 weeks or so when fluid is made mostly from the baby's urine.

 

[michelleyboo4]

Lol my ob told me that like if your dehydrated it could make the sac smaller. I only drink juice and water so I wouldn't know. :/ but I do know my sac always measures a week larger while the baby is the right size I know my friend that just had her baby said when she was early on and the sac W's small they said drink lots of water and that worked for her lol I wish we could put old wives tales to the test...

 

[jojokate]

Thank you all - I have been bugging my wife to drink more water all the time and of course this causes more trips to the washroom but I told I would rather that than her being dehydrated.

Trouble with the fertility clinic is you are not given an actual dr - it's whoever is on duty. So when the nurse calls me this afternoon I'm going to ask her to spell out exactly what happened yesterday.

 

[michelleyboo4]

That's the way to go its best to get correct and full information best of luck *hugs*

 

[jojokate]

Thanks for everyone's support. We finally heard back from a nurse from the fertility clinic yesterday (only 4 days after the scan!!) and she said the notes on our file say the yolk sac is measuring too large
Meanwhile my wife started cramping and spotting brown Saturday lunchtime - I've kept her on bed rest all weekend but the cramps and bleeding hasn't stopped and has turned dark red now. Things are looking great for us and we will be going for another scan tomorrow to confirm... very sad at the moment - we have tried for so long, spent so much money, and we are running out of time to try again...

 

[kat2504]

I'm so so sorry that it has turned out this way for you two. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. The large yolk sac is always a bad sign and it means that the pregnancy was not developing right from very early on. There is nothing either of you could have done different to change it.
I hope your wife is getting through this horrible time ok without too much physical trauma and I wish you both every success if you decide to have another go.

 

[Geegees]

thinking of you both xxx

 

[jennijunni]

I am so, so sorry!! You and your wife are in my thoughts during this difficult time. Lots of hugs!

 

[PoodleMommy]

jojokate, I'm so sorry to hear your update. As kat said, a too-large yolk sac is not a good sign... there have been exceptions, but in most cases it doesn't end well.

BUT!!! as for your saying you're "running out of time" to try again, I can assure you, unless your wife is 45 or older, that is simply not true!! You and your wife will need time to grieve, and she may have several weeks of sobbing her eyes out (in which case your job is to take her in her arms, hold her tight, and let her sob... don't try to tell her not to cry... crying is important grieving therapy for us women).

But you must try again. Her hormones right now are primed for pregnancy. There are MANY instances of women who have an early miscarriage then conceive a healthy child soon after. I've survived six miscarriages and am now 40 years old and didn't give up... you shouldn't either. It's worth the end goal!

 

[dmama]

Thanks for everyone's support. We finally heard back from a nurse from the fertility clinic yesterday (only 4 days after the scan!!) and she said the notes on our file say the yolk sac is measuring too large
Meanwhile my wife started cramping and spotting brown Saturday lunchtime - I've kept her on bed rest all weekend but the cramps and bleeding hasn't stopped and has turned dark red now. Things are looking great for us and we will be going for another scan tomorrow to confirm... very sad at the moment - we have tried for so long, spent so much money, and we are running out of time to try again...

I am so sorry to hear your news...I was worried when I saw your 'sad' face on another thread, so I checked on you here. I noticed that your wife's betas were rising nicely at first, but the last at 22dpo seemed to lag a bit and should have given the doc a raised eyebrow--maybe it did and she just didn't say anything?...in any case, I am sorry this is not the way you wanted things to be. Please don't give up!!!

 

[jojokate]

Hi everyone - I've tried to sit down and respond with an update a few times in the past week but each time I've gotten upset and left the forum without a peep...
After the bleeding started last Saturday and the terrible news of the yolk sac on Sunday, we went in for another scan Tuesday morning. The scan showed the right size baby and the radiologist said the yolk sac wasn't 'that large'. They even measured the baby's heart rate and just to go home and rest. Book another scan for the next week and that's it. We were beside ourselves - the dr wasn't concerned with my wife's bleeding and cramping. We were elated - after 5 days of hell, someone gave us some hope! We then proceeded to tell our moms and close people that all seemed to be well!

Exhausted, we both went to bed early Tuesday night. My wife woke me up at around 3am with what seemed to be contractions - we worked through them and fell back to sleep until another round at 6am. Then nothing else. I had her mom come over during the day as I had to volunteer and wanted someone with my wife while I was out. I came home at 4pm and she had miscarried. Very sad indeed and felt like the rug was taken from beneath us... as you said kat2504, things happen for a reason and I am glad that this has happened now versus weeks down the road which could have been worse.

PoodleMommy - I cannot even imagine going through this heartbreaking process 6 times and you are someone I admire for doing so. Some dr insist on waiting 2-3 months or even 6-12 months before trying again but our clinic said we can start trying as early as next cycle. We just cannot wrap our heads around getting excited at the next BFP and how do you move forward with positive energy - guess time will tell...

dmama - thanks for checking in with me - this forum has truly been a source of support and inspiration for me... I've never been one to get involved online like this really, but I do feel apart of such an amazing community here. The beta levels gave us reason to pause but the dr said nothing... we are certainly taking notes of this experience and will steer our next try a little differently - we must be our own advocates in the process and if necessary demand from the healthcare professional what we need.

Thanks again to everyone - I will continue to be around the boards and update everyone when we see our BFP again!

xo - off to change my signature now

 

[Geegees]

Oh no. I'm so sorry for you both.
I hope in time you feel happy to ahead and make your much deserved baby.
Xxxx

 

[michelleyboo4]

I am so sorry for your loss! I know how painful it is! I finally had time to check back to this post only to get teary eyed when I read your updates... I hope everything gets better! I will be praying that you two get the BFP you deserve and that healthy bouncing bundle of joy soon If you ever need to vent or talk to someone feel free to message me.