Surrogate offered $10,000 to terminate due to severe health issues.

Its a really difficult one but i think it always has to be the surrogates decision. If we took away rights to our own body- where would that leave us? A woman should never be forced to do anything with her body that she does not want, thats what it has to come down to imo x

This was my first thought...but then I kept thinking that isn't her choice to keep the baby the same as denying the biological mother the right to terminate if she feels like it's the right thing to do for her baby? Obviously the baby wasn't in the mothers body, but ethically isn't it the same?

I do see your point, it is a difficult one. But its not like the biological parents are being forced to keep the baby, its been adopted. Its not physically effecting them, where as terminating the pregnancy WOULD be physically effecting the surrogate. There are risks with termination, its the surrogate that would bear the consequences.

No matter which way i look at it - and its an awful situation for all involved i think- i still keep coming back to the fact that the decision still has to lie with the surrogate x
 
I think if you decide to become a surrogate you are to follow with what that entails. I think it's the most precious gift you can give, but these women know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they enter into this. Everything is handled by lawyers and a contract is binding. I am sorry but if a women has even a doubt that she may not want to terminate cause of health reasons it is not fair to anyone involved to become a surrogate.

They know full well every choice is the biological parents it is in black and white and repeated throughout before the contract is signed. it is not a one day process it took my friend 6 months, so I don't believe for one minute this woman didn't know what she was getting herself into. She has no right to say what happens to this child she is a vessel that is all, that is what u are when you decide to give this gift to another person. I fully agree that nobody can force u to do something but that is like comparing apples to oranges, it is a totally different scenario, everything is gone over so many times so the surrogate fully understands , so for her to want to make a choice that will affect the life of a child that isn't hers or parents that do not wish to continue on with the pregnancy for health reasons is not fair. Once you make a choice like this it is not right to go back on it.. JMO :flower:
 
I think if you decide to become a surrogate you are to follow with what that entails. I think it's the most precious gift you can give, but these women know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they enter into this. Everything is handled by lawyers and a contract is binding. I am sorry but if a women has even a doubt that she may not want to terminate cause of health reasons it is not fair to anyone involved to become a surrogate.

They know full well every choice is the biological parents it is in black and white and repeated throughout before the contract is signed. it is not a one day process it took my friend 6 months, so I don't believe for one minute this woman didn't know what she was getting herself into. She has no right to say what happens to this child she is a vessel that is all, that is what u are when you decide to give this gift to another person. I fully agree that nobody can force u to do something but that is like comparing apples to oranges, it is a totally different scenario, everything is gone over so many times so the surrogate fully understands , so for her to want to make a choice that will affect the life of a child that isn't hers or parents that do not wish to continue on with the pregnancy for health reasons is not fair. Once you make a choice like this it is not right to go back on it.. JMO :flower:

Its not fair, I agree, but its also her right unfortunately.

I also think the surrogate may have signed the contract with all intentions of following the 'rules' - but unless you have been in that position, who knows how you will react? It was probably something she thought was highly unlikely to happen.
 
I think if you decide to become a surrogate you are to follow with what that entails. I think it's the most precious gift you can give, but these women know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they enter into this. Everything is handled by lawyers and a contract is binding. I am sorry but if a women has even a doubt that she may not want to terminate cause of health reasons it is not fair to anyone involved to become a surrogate.

They know full well every choice is the biological parents it is in black and white and repeated throughout before the contract is signed. it is not a one day process it took my friend 6 months, so I don't believe for one minute this woman didn't know what she was getting herself into. She has no right to say what happens to this child she is a vessel that is all, that is what u are when you decide to give this gift to another person. I fully agree that nobody can force u to do something but that is like comparing apples to oranges, it is a totally different scenario, everything is gone over so many times so the surrogate fully understands , so for her to want to make a choice that will affect the life of a child that isn't hers or parents that do not wish to continue on with the pregnancy for health reasons is not fair. Once you make a choice like this it is not right to go back on it.. JMO :flower:

Its not fair, I agree, but its also her right unfortunately.

I also think the surrogate may have signed the contract with all intentions of following the 'rules' - but unless you have been in that position, who knows how you will react? It was probably something she thought was highly unlikely to happen.

But if she was allowed to do as she pleased because she didnt know how she would react then surrogates could decide to keep the baby once they gave birth , terminate a healthy pregnancy due to change in life circumstances, take drugs... The contract is in place to protect the biological parents. Unless someone is 100% sure that they can follow all the rules on the contract then they should not be a surrogate.
 
I completely agree with Loraloo. You can't force someone to have a medical operation, it's neither right or legal even if it is in a contract.
 
I think if you decide to become a surrogate you are to follow with what that entails. I think it's the most precious gift you can give, but these women know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they enter into this. Everything is handled by lawyers and a contract is binding. I am sorry but if a women has even a doubt that she may not want to terminate cause of health reasons it is not fair to anyone involved to become a surrogate.

They know full well every choice is the biological parents it is in black and white and repeated throughout before the contract is signed. it is not a one day process it took my friend 6 months, so I don't believe for one minute this woman didn't know what she was getting herself into. She has no right to say what happens to this child she is a vessel that is all, that is what u are when you decide to give this gift to another person. I fully agree that nobody can force u to do something but that is like comparing apples to oranges, it is a totally different scenario, everything is gone over so many times so the surrogate fully understands , so for her to want to make a choice that will affect the life of a child that isn't hers or parents that do not wish to continue on with the pregnancy for health reasons is not fair. Once you make a choice like this it is not right to go back on it.. JMO :flower:

Its not fair, I agree, but its also her right unfortunately.

I also think the surrogate may have signed the contract with all intentions of following the 'rules' - but unless you have been in that position, who knows how you will react? It was probably something she thought was highly unlikely to happen.

But if she was allowed to do as she pleased because she didnt know how she would react then surrogates could decide to keep the baby once they gave birth , terminate a healthy pregnancy due to change in life circumstances, take drugs... The contract is in place to protect the biological parents. Unless someone is 100% sure that they can follow all the rules on the contract then they should not be a surrogate.

And again, the surrogate is allowed to do this, nobody could stop her. Whether thats morally right or wrong is another thing, but thats how it is.
 
A contract is a contract. They couldn't physically force her to follow through with the contract (and rightly so) but that still doesn't mean it wasn't wrong of her to break the contract and she absolutely should pay the money back.
 
A contract is a contract. They couldn't physically force her to follow through with the contract (and rightly so) but that still doesn't mean it wasn't wrong of her to break the contract and she absolutely should pay the money back.

I agree she should return the money and it probably wasn't the best idea to be a surrogate. But I don't think from a legal point of view that the contract would stand up as ultimately it is the pregnant woman's decision, the same as it would be if it were a donor egg and sperm to create a baby for the woman to keep. A contract is still restricted to the confines of the law.
 
A contract is a contract. They couldn't physically force her to follow through with the contract (and rightly so) but that still doesn't mean it wasn't wrong of her to break the contract and she absolutely should pay the money back.

I agree she should return the money and it probably wasn't the best idea to be a surrogate. But I don't think from a legal point of view that the contract would stand up as ultimately it is the pregnant woman's decision, the same as it would be if it were a donor egg and sperm to create a baby for the woman to keep. A contract is still restricted to the confines of the law.

Hmm that sounds right but then why did the surrogate go to another state that didn't recognise the contact to get out of it if the contact wasn't legally enforceable?
 
Agree any money should be paid back.
 
A contract is a contract. They couldn't physically force her to follow through with the contract (and rightly so) but that still doesn't mean it wasn't wrong of her to break the contract and she absolutely should pay the money back.

I agree she should return the money and it probably wasn't the best idea to be a surrogate. But I don't think from a legal point of view that the contract would stand up as ultimately it is the pregnant woman's decision, the same as it would be if it were a donor egg and sperm to create a baby for the woman to keep. A contract is still restricted to the confines of the law.

Hmm that sounds right but then why did the surrogate go to another state that didn't recognise the contact to get out of it if the contact wasn't legally enforceable?

It probably wasn't necessary. Maybe she wasn't sure of her rights and took extreme precautions.
 
A contract is a contract. They couldn't physically force her to follow through with the contract (and rightly so) but that still doesn't mean it wasn't wrong of her to break the contract and she absolutely should pay the money back.

I agree she should return the money and it probably wasn't the best idea to be a surrogate. But I don't think from a legal point of view that the contract would stand up as ultimately it is the pregnant woman's decision, the same as it would be if it were a donor egg and sperm to create a baby for the woman to keep. A contract is still restricted to the confines of the law.

Hmm that sounds right but then why did the surrogate go to another state that didn't recognise the contact to get out of it if the contact wasn't legally enforceable?

It probably wasn't necessary. Maybe she wasn't sure of her rights and took extreme precautions.

Yeah maybe.
 
Ooooo thats a tricky one.

I dont have an set opinion on this

Whilst yes its the parents child. it is also her body :wacko:
 
You know, this is definitely a controversial issue and I can see both sides to the argument. It's interesting to me however that no one yet has perhaps thought to question the act of surrogacy itself. I mean not to step on anyone's toes by saying this and nor am I some hippy, left-leaning, liberal naturalist but I do believe that surrogacy is a practice best avoided by humans because it is a corruption of nature that no amount of politics can organize and control. Now wait, I'll explain why.

We also have the right to say no when it comes to our body. I might go to donate blood, but if half way through i say no- then they MUST stop, thats my body, my decision. If i decide to use my body to trial medication and want to stop and say no- I have that right.

If you withdraw rights from your own body- where do you draw the line? You do not sign away rights to your body. The only thing they could do from breaking a contract is refuse payment- they cannot, and should not, ever- be able to force anybody to do anything with their own body against their will.

LoraLoo raises a very good point. At what point is the line drawn with regards to ownership? This is an issue of personal autonomy and assigned rights. Yes, the surrogate signed a contract and in doing so essentially 'signed her body away' to the biological parents. However does this forgo any personal autonomy that the woman has because she signed a legal document, agreeing to termination, if it was so desired by the parents? It's a very difficult situation, because it defies nature. That wouldn't even be putting it correctly. It distorts and attempts to override nature, but we can't do that no matter how much legal precedence we set in such an arrangement. Broken down, essentially:

... Two adults who otherwise could not conceive by natural means 'hire' a surrogate mother. Their donated sperm and egg, fertilized, is implanted into the surrogates body.

... This fertilized egg belongs to the biological parents. The body belongs to the surrogate. By accepting the fertilized egg into her body, she claims no rights to it as it does not belong to her, but her body is still her body and she still has personal autonomy. Legal contract or no legal contract. Therefore in my eyes, and using my rationale, she becomes the sole proprietor of the fertilized egg.

... Biological parents wish to terminate the pregnancy. Surrogate, although not the rightful 'owner' of the fetus, still overrides the rights of the fetus as the fetus itself relies on her body for life support. She signed a contract agreeing to termination should it be willed by the biological parents, yes. However if she had a change of heart (or mind, or both) and grew attached to the growing fetus (which does happen, whether it is her child biologically or not as this is a physiological process of pregnancy) at what point does her personal autonomy end?

... If the surrogate refuses to abort the fetus, then she has breached her contract but she is still within her rights of personal autonomy to make decisions that affect her own body. Her body is host to the biological parents' child, but without her body the fetus would not have survived, so her body still trumps the rights of the fetus.

... So then what is the next due course of action? If she refused to abort she pays a fine, serves jail time, but never at any point can any authority force a woman to abort 'her' baby as this violates her rights to personal autonomy. That is the most important factor here.

While I disagree with her choice to not terminate the pregnancy (it is cruel to be aware of such physical abnormalities with a fetus and force it to live knowing it will suffer, IMO) I do not agree with those that say she did the wrong thing by going against the biological parents' wishes to terminate. Legal contracts provide a service to us and what we assign to them is their worth. But no legal contract written by any man or woman could ever, or should ever, take precedence over personal autonomy. The surrogate was pregnant, it was her choice to terminate or not - not the bio parents'. And thus why we should avoid surrogacy altogether.

It's a similar argument to that of the question raised by the film 'A Clockwork Orange' where the main character of that movie subjects his body to a dangerous experiment in exchange for freedom from prison. He signed away his rights to his personal autonomy by agreeing to take the experiment, but the purpose of the film was to ask the viewer whether or not any one person or governing institution with power over the individual should be able to 'force' said individual into a situation of mental or physical harm against their will. Whether the experiment was for a greater good or evil it is argued, should not matter. When we watch the movie the audience finds themselves feeling sympathetic for the main character (despite all his deliberate flaws and monstrous nature) because he had his personal autonomy robbed of him, even though he agreed to it himself.

As long as we value personal autonomy bio parents essentially give up rights to their child as soon as it becomes a symbiotic entity with the mother. Not the genetic mother. The relationship between mother and child is a symbiotic one, fervently grounded in biology, not litigation. A contract is a piece of paper. What we assign to that piece of paper does not trump the rights of the mother. That's my opinion, anyway.
 
A very good and thought provoking post Jessica.

OT: Always wanted to watch Clockwork Orange!
 
Thanks guys, I'm glad my thoughts have been well recieved :) Clockwork is a brilliant movie. I urge anyone (over a certain age ofc haha) to watch it if they want to think.

I actually would add that surrogacy could still happen, but that it is understood and outlined in whatever contract is signed that once the surrogate is pregnant, if at any time she should wish to either terminate the pregnancy or continue through out of want for the child for themselves that it should be permissable and legal and any funds be returned to the genetic parents. I think that is reasonable.
 
How did the law decide who was legally responsible for the child? As whilst i am unsure as what the surrogate did was right or wrong. When that baby was born who had the rights to give her up for adoption. Does the surrogate have more power over the biological father? And what would have happended if the surrogate couldnt find an adoptive parent who could afford all the treatments for the baby?
 

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