Traditional relationship roles

[xemmax]

I think with things like addictions, previous undeclared offspring etc, you are generally meant to forgive. Its the "for worse" part of the vow "for better or for worse." In fact, if I remember rightly, if you follow the Bible, Jesus said you ought to forgive 70x7 times, which I think just means forgive everytime. Whether to forgive means to remain in the marriage or not is another thing. Shan, whats your take?

Although you might be expected to forgive sometimes it just isn't possible. In order to forgive someone, the act/event you are forgiving must already have taken place. In the case of addiction, if the person addicted cannot admit to it then you are not in a position to forgive them, your only choice is to overlook the problems associated with it while trying to show them they are an addict. I couldn't blame a person for divorcing someone if they were continually hurting them/the family at the cost of their addiction. There is only so much someone can take and sometimes addictions are too strong.

 

[ShanandBoc]

It clearly states the only grounds for 'scriptural' divorce is adultery. This does not mean that u have to stay with an abusive partner.

Adultery is the only Scriptural grounds for divorce with the possibility of remarriage - thats the difference. A Christian is not free to pursue a third party with a view to remarriage if no adultery is committed. This is what it makes clear.

Marriage was intended as a life long commitment and adultery is the only thing that breaks this bond (or death of course) Id adhere to as i believe in and follow the bible, and believe as the instigator of marriage God knows whats best, but i said i dont judge what others do, thats up to them.

So to put it in a nutshell again.... In certain extreme situations, some Christians have decided to separate from or divorce a marriage mate even though that one has not committed adultery. In such a case, the Bible stipulates that the departing one “remain unmarried or else make up again.” (1 Corinthians 7:11)


I understand many will not agree, and thats fine. x

 

[Lightworker]

Emma- yeah I totally agree with you, sometimes you have to leave as an act of self-preservation, otherwise the person will take you down. I think though from a spiritual point of view, if you abstain from judging your husband, and practice forgiveness and tolerance and patience and love, the issues you mentioned would not be grounds for divorce. I keep making reference to spirituality as I think marriage originated from spiritual teachings so it is necessary.

 

[tinkerbellkj]

I wanted to share my opinion on this matter.

I have been working in social work for about 7 years, and 2 of those years I worked at a Domestic Violence shelter. There, I have seen women with their teeth knocked out, years of scars, and broken bones all from a person whom they supposedly loved them. I have attended funerals of two of these women-- both of their husbands were in counseling at this time.

I truly cannot support ANYTHING that would encourage or force the women to stay with these men. NO deserves this kind of treatment, you wouldn't allow it for a stranger (we'd all be searching for the creep to lock him up) so why from your own husband? I believe in God, but I don't care what the bible says about this matter.

Also, I have seen CHILDREN injured in the fireline, trying to block mom from a chair getting thrown, or jumping in the way of dads punches. So while he "didn't mean to hurt the child" he did. An abuser abuses the children by abusing the mother. I have also been a child protective worker, and have REMOVED children from their mother because she refused to leave her abuser. I'm sorry, there is NO way I'd put up with ANYTHING that risked me losing my children.

Sorry for the rant, but I am VERY passionate about this subject. It's just my opinion (though I can say, at least where I am from, it is FACTUAL that you can lose your children by remaining with your abusive husband) and others will have their own.

 

[ShanandBoc]

The bible doesnt say that women should stay with these types of men at all, i did explain above.

And that is awful tinkerbell how horrific

ETA - these types of men are breaking many of Gods laws by this kind of treatment and they will have to answer for it.

 

[tinkerbellkj]

The bible doesnt say that women should stay with these types of men at all, i did explain above.

And that is awful tinkerbell how horrific

ETA - these types of men are breaking many of Gods laws by this kind of treatment and they will have to answer for it.

It IS awful. I'm SO happy I don't work in that field anymore!

 

[ShanandBoc]

Those poor women. Hate to say it but even divorcing or seperating from someone doesnt mean they will leave u alone or u are free from their abuse.....ive seen this with a friend of mine.

 

[tinkerbellkj]

Those poor women. Hate to say it but even divorcing or seperating from someone doesnt mean they will leave u alone or u are free from their abuse.....ive seen this with a friend of mine.

Sadly, you are 100% right. When they leave they are in the most danger.

 

[ShanandBoc]

If these men did the right thing in the first place this would be a non issue

In the case i mentioned about my friend he was a drug addict and a piece of work i tell ya, violent, controlling and put their children at risk leaving drug paraphernalia lying around. Disgusting - and when she left was when things really turned nasty. She never married him, so didnt have to go thru a divorce but ended up with a restraining order against him which he constantly violated - would even rock up in the middle of the night, break into her house and drag the kids out of bed and try and take them. She is now happily married

 

[tallybee]

It clearly states the only grounds for 'scriptural' divorce is adultery. This does not mean that u have to stay with an abusive partner.

Adultery is the only Scriptural grounds for divorce with the possibility of remarriage - thats the difference. A Christian is not free to pursue a third party with a view to remarriage if no adultery is committed. This is what it makes clear.

Marriage was intended as a life long commitment and adultery is the only thing that breaks this bond (or death of course) Id adhere to as i believe in and follow the bible, and believe as the instigator of marriage God knows whats best, but i said i dont judge what others do, thats up to them.

So to put it in a nutshell again.... In certain extreme situations, some Christians have decided to separate from or divorce a marriage mate even though that one has not committed adultery. In such a case, the Bible stipulates that the departing one “remain unmarried or else make up again.” (1 Corinthians 7:11)


I understand many will not agree, and thats fine. x

Just trying to get this straight - those who separate or divorce without adultery cannot be with anyone else. So, looking at it logically, all they'd have to do is sleep with the new person, bingo- adultery. Sorry if I'm oversimplifying this, but it seems a bit self-terminating.

As an atheist I do find religious stuff pretty impenetrable at times

 

[ShanandBoc]

Yes true, but then they would be committing a gross sin.

Anywho this is gone a bit OT now. We all have very different views on this, as well as the traditional roles and thats fine. What each of us do in our marriages is really no ones business but our own Each one of us is accountable for our actions, no one else x

 

[aliss]

Very traditional in some senses but he did a lot more on paternity leave than most fathers so I'd say we're even and I'm blessed

 

[lindseymw]

Although I grew up in a traditional family, my dad was head of the household, my mam was a SAHM until I started school, my marriage is not!

My DH is the "head of the household" in the respect that he is the main breadwinner, however when it comes to decisions, I make them because DH is bloody useless. He can't even decide what to have for his tea! I'll discuss them with him first of course, but usually I tell him what I'm going to do! With regards to raising children & housework, when I was working this was generally an even split. We both use to do 4-5 12 hour shifts a week, I would try and get my shifts on his days off. Now I'm on Mat Leave however, I do more of the raising the children & the housework, but that's because I don't think it's really fair to expect him to work 40-50 hours a week and still do half the housework.

I wouldn't exactly say it's easy to get a divorce. Unless there is grounds for divorce (in the eyes of the Law) i.e adultery / abusive behaviour and the guilty party admits this, then you have to wait two years from the breakdown of the marriage before you can file for divorce. I was a Solicitor's secretary for a number of years & believe me some divorces which we dealt with were not "easy" in the slightest and went on for years.

I do kinda agree that divorce rates are up because it is socially acceptable to be divorced. I know many women in their early 20s already divorced. They had married their childhood sweethearts, who turned out not to be quite the sweetheart they once were.

I would actually say that it's too easy to get married, but bloody hard to get divorced.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Those of you from baby club would have seen the current discussion about gender roles in a marriage. It's interesting to read how other couple work and it got me thinking...

We have a very 'traditional' family in the sense that my husband is the 'head of our household'. He is our breadwinner, provider, protector etc. I see my role as carer and nurturer. He still helps out around the house, we discuss things together and he always takes my feelings into consideration, but at the end of the day I will always honor and respect his decision. I know that he takes his role very seriously and ALWAYS puts mine and our sons needs above his own.

It got me thinking, I know this is VERY different to how a lot of other couples operate but it is very traditional. Society and gender equality has come a long way but it makes me wonder (and please don't take this as an arogant statement as it is not intended) but is it possible that this is responsible for the increase in marriage breakdowns? Have our roles as men and women 'evolved' to the point that our roles are confused?

MY OH works, I dont. I probably do 70% of the childcare but he helps at bedtimes and on weekends will take them out. If I need to stay out over night, he has coped on his own and is happy to do so. I spend his money on whatever I feel we need. I dont consult him and he would never moan as he trusts me.

I arrange the bills and everything.

I think I have the last word tbh but I know he will look after us, if ever needed x

I like it this way. Would not like to have someone over-powering me.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

and I would NEVER ask a mans permission to go out or spend money. I will notify him but not ask permission! xx

 

[trgirl308]

Thank you for creating this topic!

I do not think that my relationship follows 'traditional' gender roles as you describe them. I work for a bank so I handle ALL of our finances because I am better at it. My DH cooks more, because he gets home earlier and he is better at it. So I clean more and he fixes more things around the house... that is what works for us. We discuss most things first, but we trust each other and we know when we are embarking on a decision that the other may or may not agree with we will wait to decide together. We are a team, there is not one above the other. But, when we are together he always drives, opens the door for me, carries my bags, holds the dog leash... I definitely feel safe in his arms and don't mind admitting that as a woman I like having a man around. I have found this discussion intersting because there are so many different views, but like so many have said, all that matters is what works in your own relationship, not someone else's.

All that being said, in regards to divorce. I agree that part of the reason is that divorce has become more acceptable, but I would say it begins with ppl getting married too quickly. Not discussing or understanding what their roles are going to be. So many couples, one expects a more 'traditional' approach while the other doesn't, that can create resentment...etc. Definitely living together before getting married helps with that (in my opinion). And I also agree that many couples don't try to work through things from the beginning, there is not enough communication and then it can get to a point where both are so unhappy that they can't fix it. That is my careful evaluation, largely based on my parent's divorce.

 

[mrs_park]

Very interesting discussion!

And just to clarify, my earlier statement was unclear... I understand that divorce is never easy. I can only imagine that it would be the most awful gut wrenching experience. I only meant that it is easily attainable. Or perhaps in my ignorance I see the way celebrities change their spouses as often as they change their undies and assume it's easy to get a divorce.

I remember when we were planning our wedding (almost) four years ago. I read Ina wedding magazine that there was an increase in couples saying '.... for as long as our love should last'.

In my opinion, marriage is a life long commitment that should be entered into very seriously.

 

[tallybee]

Divorce is only easily attainable if both parties are actually reasonable about things which is all too often not the case: obviously to be divorcing there's clearly a problem in the first place and it makes people bitter. OH's ex made it incredibly difficult not to mention expensive... it seems to happen often. A divorce will not be granted unless all issues relating to the children (if there are any under-16s from the marriage) and the finances have been resolved. This can take years and ruin lives.
Celebrities seem to inhabit a different planet when it comes to these things because they have the money to just throw at it. The rest of us don't have that luxury and with a bitter and greedy ex intent on making everyone else as miserable as they are, divorce is Not easily attainable

 

[Lightworker]

Double post

 

[Lightworker]

Mrs Park- yeah I think as society evolves, the meaning of marriage will change. The vow you described shows people accepting the fact that it is not for life. The case is the same for pre-nups. Signing one shows that to some extent, the party(ies) is envisaging a split somewhere down the line.