Twelve Year Old Shoots Intruder.

[BabyJayne]

Well, I've heard in the UK that if an intruder breaks into your home and, say, slips on the floor and breaks his arm, he can sue the homeowner and win! In the US, if someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, you don't get charged.

Not really. This just happened in the UK

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-who-killed-burglar-walks-free-2318775.html

 

[Dragonfly]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

 

[BabyJayne]

Well, I've heard in the UK that if an intruder breaks into your home and, say, slips on the floor and breaks his arm, he can sue the homeowner and win! In the US, if someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, you don't get charged.

Not really. This just happened in the UK

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-who-killed-burglar-walks-free-2318775.html

It happened in June but just a few weeks ago the guy who killed the burglar was interviewed, and it has basically ruined his life. He is finding it very very difficult to live with the fact that he has killed a man.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I'm not saying we should shoot anyone that enters our homes. That's completely missing the point.

 

[BabyJayne]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

 

[Dragonfly]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

And shooting wouldnt be seen as reasonable here as people have gone to jail for shooting intruders in the UK. What reasonable force do you think a 12 year old girl can do against a grown man?

 

[BabyJayne]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

And shooting wouldnt be seen as reasonable here as people have gone to jail for shooting intruders in the UK. What reasonable force do you think a 12 year old girl can do against a grown man?

Did you read the link I posted? A guy stabbed a burglar and killed him, the judge said he used reasonable force in self defence and faced no charges.

I guess shooting could be seen as reasonable force, but every case would has to be judged on its merits. That's what happens here already. For example, shooting someone in the back as they are leaving your house may not be seen as reasonable force.

 

[xemmax]

Well, I've heard in the UK that if an intruder breaks into your home and, say, slips on the floor and breaks his arm, he can sue the homeowner and win! In the US, if someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, you don't get charged.

That is definitely not true! You are entitled to defend yourself and use reasonable force, but there is dispute about what constitutes reasonable force, hence debates.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I think I was misunderstood. I heard about a lady in the UK who had an intruder fall through her glass ceiling and he sued her and won.

 

[Dragonfly]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

And shooting wouldnt be seen as reasonable here as people have gone to jail for shooting intruders in the UK. What reasonable force do you think a 12 year old girl can do against a grown man?

Did you read the link I posted? A guy stabbed a burglar and killed him, the judge said he used reasonable force in self defence and faced no charges.

I guess shooting could be seen as reasonable force, but every case would has to be judged on its merits. That's what happens here already. For example, shooting someone in the back as they are leaving your house may not be seen as reasonable force.

No I didnt read the link I was asking what a 12 year old girl could do as reasonable forced against a grown man in her home. If you think what she did was wrong of course. (set aside gun laws as ours are different in the uk)

 

[BabyJayne]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

And shooting wouldnt be seen as reasonable here as people have gone to jail for shooting intruders in the UK. What reasonable force do you think a 12 year old girl can do against a grown man?

Did you read the link I posted? A guy stabbed a burglar and killed him, the judge said he used reasonable force in self defence and faced no charges.

I guess shooting could be seen as reasonable force, but every case would has to be judged on its merits. That's what happens here already. For example, shooting someone in the back as they are leaving your house may not be seen as reasonable force.

No I didnt read the link I was asking what a 12 year old girl could do as reasonable forced against a grown man in her home. If you think what she did was wrong of course. (set aside gun laws as ours are different in the uk)

The link was there for the purpose of showing that you can use reasonable force in the UK to defend your property, yourself and your family. In repsonse to your comment that we should be able to, we are able to.

As Emma said earlier, I am glad she was able to defend herself, but the fact she could easily get access to a firearm scares me more. We won't know what reasonable force she could have used, because she fired the gun. We don't know what the guy was or was not going to do. What is interesting though, is that she fired the gun when she saw the light switch go on and the door handle turn. Her mum was on her way over to the house from work after the girl had called her from the closet. We could easily have been talking about "girl shoots mum thinking she was an intruder". The gun/self-defence debate is a lot bigger than this one story.

 

[Dragonfly]

And I am sating that a 12 year old wouldn't have enough reasonable force for a grown man, the other story wouldn't apply to her giving she is 12 years old and hardly fit for stabbing. Which by the way is how much different from shooting someone? still does them harm. And this is in America where guns are legal. Here there would probably be something said about it. Its people that kill people, guns in the wrong hands. I dont agree with people walking around carrying guns and leaving them about, thats not safe at all,. Any one with a licence has one here. I wont pick apart this girls story as I am glad she is alive and intruder down.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

No the mom told her to get the gun and go in the closet. A twelve year old has the capacity to fire a gun safely. In fact, I've taught kids as young as five target shooting through the scouts.

 

[Eternal]

Well the recent case where the man walked free was one of the big things which has prompted government to start talking about what our rights should be.

5 people broke into his house! would they really of walked away if there heard him upstairs? It's shocking to think it even got to court really.

I don't know what my feeling on gun law are, the clip in 6th sense where the boy has it head blown off from playing with daddy's gun terrifies me. But so does the thought of having a pool, but if I were wealthy and old afford if I am sure I would still have a pool and take every precaution and educate my children.

As for being able to defend myself, then I wish it wasn't so complicated here and I wish it didn't feel like the law was on the side of the criminal. I don't think a criminal can sue for slipping on your mat, but they can from deliberately having things which can cause harm, such as barbed wire, or something like that.

My dad has a shop and there was a period where every month or more someone would break in, my dad was frustrated and asked different options and basically they weren't allowed to do anything to defend the property which may cause harm to someone.

My mum has a friend who threw a rake at a burglar who tripped on it and it spiked him and he went to jail. It was still on his property but was outside.

There is also law about what weapon you use, such as id you happen to store a baseball bat under your bed and use that to defend yourself, then its ok, but if you deliberately go into another room to get it, then thats not ok.

So it's confusing and I believe the uk needs better defined laws and defending your self and property.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

To be honest, teaching a child gun safety is better than telling them not to touch without explanation.

 

[BabyJayne]

And I am sating that a 12 year old wouldn't have enough reasonable force for a grown man, the other story wouldn't apply to her giving she is 12 years old and hardly fit for stabbing. Which by the way is how much different from shooting someone? still does them harm. And this is in America where guns are legal. Here there would probably be something said about it. Its people that kill people, guns in the wrong hands. I dont agree with people walking around carrying guns and leaving them about, thats not safe at all,. Any one with a licence has one here. I wont pick apart this girls story as I am glad she is alive and intruder down.

You are missing the point of the link. You said "Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger." I had already posted the link to show that the law says in the UK we can use reasonable force, to the point where a burglar ended up being stabbed. This was deemed reasonable force.

But I do agree with you Eternal, it is confusing. The "reasonable force" means every case has to be looked at individually - there is not a blanket rule that says this is okay, but this isn't.

 

[xemmax]

And I am sating that a 12 year old wouldn't have enough reasonable force for a grown man, the other story wouldn't apply to her giving she is 12 years old and hardly fit for stabbing. Which by the way is how much different from shooting someone? still does them harm. And this is in America where guns are legal. Here there would probably be something said about it. Its people that kill people, guns in the wrong hands. I dont agree with people walking around carrying guns and leaving them about, thats not safe at all,. Any one with a licence has one here. I wont pick apart this girls story as I am glad she is alive and intruder down.

Guns may be legal, but what does US law say about the use of firearms by minors? Is there no legislation to ensure they don't have access to weapons?

 

[BabyJayne]

To be honest, teaching a child gun safety is better than telling them not to touch without explanation.

I think having guns securely locked away and completely inaccessible to children is better than either of these.

DH has a drill in the shed. No matter how old Madeline is, whether she has used one or not, or knows how to operate it safely, she will still never be able to have to access to this drill while she is a child because it is unsafe for her.

 

[Dragonfly]

And I am sating that a 12 year old wouldn't have enough reasonable force for a grown man, the other story wouldn't apply to her giving she is 12 years old and hardly fit for stabbing. Which by the way is how much different from shooting someone? still does them harm. And this is in America where guns are legal. Here there would probably be something said about it. Its people that kill people, guns in the wrong hands. I dont agree with people walking around carrying guns and leaving them about, thats not safe at all,. Any one with a licence has one here. I wont pick apart this girls story as I am glad she is alive and intruder down.

Guns may be legal, but what does US law say about the use of firearms by minors? Is there no legislation to ensure they don't have access to weapons?

I am hoping someone can fill me in as I am not sure of the law there on fire arms. You need a licence to?

 

[fantastica]

You have to admit which would you prefer the other way? do you think the intruder would have said sorry for disturbing you and on his merry way to his next house where hopefully he wouldn't have to be rude and interrupts someone's tea?Maybe if Victims where allowed to defend themselves more there wouldnt be so many villains in peoples houses causing massive danger. Blaming the victim and picking apart the victim is ridiculous, what about the intruder? or are we accepting that just happens and let him off with verbal scoldings and expect that from them. He should not have been there and got what he deserved. You should have the right to defend your home and yourself.

The law states that in the UK, people are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property.

And shooting wouldnt be seen as reasonable here as people have gone to jail for shooting intruders in the UK. What reasonable force do you think a 12 year old girl can do against a grown man?

Did you read the link I posted? A guy stabbed a burglar and killed him, the judge said he used reasonable force in self defence and faced no charges.

I guess shooting could be seen as reasonable force, but every case would has to be judged on its merits. That's what happens here already. For example, shooting someone in the back as they are leaving your house may not be seen as reasonable force.

No I didnt read the link I was asking what a 12 year old girl could do as reasonable forced against a grown man in her home. If you think what she did was wrong of course. (set aside gun laws as ours are different in the uk)

The link was there for the purpose of showing that you can use reasonable force in the UK to defend your property, yourself and your family, in repsonse to your comment that we should be able to. We are able to.

As Emma said earlier, I am glad she was able to defend herself, but the fact she could easily get access to a firearm scares me more. We won't know what reasonable force she could have used, because she fired the gun. We don't know what the guy was or was not going to do. What is interesting though, is that she fired the gun when she saw the light switch go on and the door handle turn. Her mum was on her way over to the house from work after the girl had called her from the closet. We could easily have been talking about "girl shoots mum thinking she was an intruder". The gun/self-defence debate is a lot bigger than this one story.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere else that he had been wanted for kidnap in the past? (I could be confused though), it is likely he would've done harm...or else why would he have been looking for her in the closet?

I do agree with pretty much everything else you've said though haha!