Unassisted (Free) Birth

[lozzy21]

The OP asked for my views on the subject so i gave it. Yes those problems happen everywhere but the rates are higher in the 3rd world where they have no access to trained medical profesionals or medication.

 

[winegums]

but lozzy most places in the 3rd world DO have midwives however they are not always great midwives and often push for things like sections which cost them countries a lot of money and leave the women open to infections etc etc

even in 3rd world countries some women still CHOOSE to give birth on their own

 

[ChloesMummy]

I came accross this story the other day, really sad, it is described as homebirth but sounds more along the lines of freebirth. The parents took it to the extreme.
Upsetting
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...er-mother-told-midwives-not-to-interfere.html

 

[Jetters]

You can give your opinion without being offensive you know! I've just said we chose to freebirth and you then say "well I think you're [anyone who chooses a freebirth- not just third worls women!] a slap in the face to women who've lost babies".

*shakes head*

 

[lozzy21]

but lozzy most places in the 3rd world DO have midwives however they are not always great midwives and often push for things like sections which cost them countries a lot of money and leave the women open to infections etc etc

even in 3rd world countries some women still CHOOSE to give birth on their own

But most of the people who live in 3rd world countrys cant afford medical care. They will leave it till the last min before taking them to the hospital and most of the time its too late.

 

[Jetters]

I came accross this story the other day, really sad, it is described as homebirth but sounds more along the lines of freebirth. The parents took it to the extreme.
Upsetting
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...er-mother-told-midwives-not-to-interfere.html

That is a sad story, but it's 6 years old and there will ALWAYS be extreme cases about every aspect of childbirth. That tragedy didn't happen because they freebirthed, it happened because they ignored MASSIVE risks.

 

[aob1013]

It's not for me, i would feel very irresponsible, and if anything happened, it WOULD be my fault.

 

[winegums]

what i dont get is that the death rates of mothers and babys went up literally as soon as birth became more medicalised. women were advised to go to hospital and give birth even though a hospital is for people ill or in trouble?! and then hospital became normal....... but before that when everyone gave birth at home MANY women had to go it alone and STILL the death rates went up when they started getting them to go to hospitals and give birth there instead......... so obviously there must be something to this

 

[trumpetbum]

A freebirth isn't for me but I do understand why some people opt for this. I have come across women who freebirthed ( I was a member od a super crunchy forum back when I was pregnant with dd2) and they generally put a great deal of research, thought and planning into the process.
I don't know that I could call them irresponsible considering how informed and well planned most of their births were. I know of one who transferred for a section on the strength of both her intuition and the signs that she was prepared for. It's hard to generalise as their reasons were very varied, from religious beliefs to a lack of options in their area other than a very medicalised system, some had antenatal care, some had scans, some had nothing. A very mixed bag.
Given the choice between some of the 'healthcare' options some were facing or an informed unassisted birth, I think I might have taken my chances with the freebirth, but i'm not in that situation so can't say for sure.
I consider myself very lucky to have access to a good, skilled homebirth team in my area. I think that the support of a trained midwife who will not jump in unnecessarily is the optimum in birth safety. However, last time around I was ready to be told there were no midwives available at the last minute and I had prepared to stick to my guns and stay at home. Was I not then essentially prepared, like many others, to have an unassisted birth rather than be forced into hospital?
Maybe I simply don't want to have the kneejerk reaction to all unassisted birth that so many people have when I mention homebirth.

How's that for a waffle

 

[marley2580]

what i dont get is that the death rates of mothers and babys went up literally as soon as birth became more medicalised. women were advised to go to hospital and give birth even though a hospital is for people ill or in trouble?! and then hospital became normal....... but before that when everyone gave birth at home MANY women had to go it alone and STILL the death rates went up when they started getting them to go to hospitals and give birth there instead......... so obviously there must be something to this

Wiki is actually quite well referenced.

The death rates went up because in the 1800s male doctors started to take over from MWs, women gave birth under anaesthetic etc. All this was before they knew about cleanliness and cross contamination, so women and babies were being infected by drs and nurses. The rise of hospital births is directly linked to feminism and the power that men have/had

 

[Drazic<3]

Freebirthing would not be for me. I, personally, would feel if anything avoidable went wrong, her life would be on my conscience forever. Also, I am not really bothered what they do to me as long as she gets safely in the world. Yes, things can happen at hospital, but you are protected by knowledge, experience and healthcare in a way I feel I wouldn't freebirthing.

My foster sister had a freebirth at home with her Mum due to a horrible hospital experience. I all but begged her not to, or to let the midwife in, but she wouldn't. She was even getting calls threatening her with legal or social services action. She had a healthy baby boy at home with virtually no pain and no complications. However beautiful that is, I can't help but feel it's more luck than judgement. When healthcare is available, I don't understand why you would ignore it.

 

[booflebump]

Like Drazic, I couldnt live with it on my conscience should anything happen. No matter how well prepared/read/researched/low risk you are, if things go wrong, they can go wrong very quickly and you need to have someone who can not only save the babies life, but your life if needs be x

 

[winegums]

what i dont get is that the death rates of mothers and babys went up literally as soon as birth became more medicalised. women were advised to go to hospital and give birth even though a hospital is for people ill or in trouble?! and then hospital became normal....... but before that when everyone gave birth at home MANY women had to go it alone and STILL the death rates went up when they started getting them to go to hospitals and give birth there instead......... so obviously there must be something to this

Wiki is actually quite well referenced.

The death rates went up because in the 1800s male doctors started to take over from MWs, women gave birth under anaesthetic etc. All this was before they knew about cleanliness and cross contamination, so women and babies were being infected by drs and nurses. The rise of hospital births is directly linked to feminism and the power that men have/had

Wiki? the website your not meant to use for any actual research because any old tom dick and harry can go on and write what they like?!

 

[marley2580]

Sorry, I meant this article - below are the references

References

^ "Midwife". Dictionary.com.
^ Epstein, Abby. "The Business of Being Born (film)" (in English). Retrieved 2009-10-30.
^ Wagner, Marsden. Welcoming Baby, or Not: Are men, machines, and hospitals really necessary for a healthy childbirth? American Sexuality Magazine. Accessed 3-27-07.
^ "Definition of the Midwife".
^ "The Newsletter of The Partnership for Maternal, Newborn & Child Health". January 2006.
^ Jean Towler and Joan Bramall, Midwives in History and Society (London: Croom Helm, 1986), p. 9
^ Rebecca Flemming, Medicine and the Making of Roman Women (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000), p. 359
^ a b c d e f Valerie French, &#8220;Midwives and Maternity Care in the Roman World&#8221; (Helios, New Series 12(2), 1986), pp. 69-84
^ a b c d e Ralph Jackson, Doctors and Diseases in the Roman Empire (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1988), p. 97
^ Rebecca Flemming, Medicine and the Making of Roman Women (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000), pp. 421-424
^ Towler and Bramall, p.12
^ "Midwives". Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. 1913.
^ Barlow,Y: "Quick, Boil Some Water", p3, Bookline and Thinker Ltd., 2007
^ Gunnar Heinsohn/Otto Steiger: "Witchcraft, Population Catastrophe and Economic Crisis in Renaissance Europe: An Alternative Macroeconomic Explannation.", University of Bremen 2004 (download); Gunnar Heinsohn/Otto Steiger: "The Elimination of Medieval Birth Control and the Witch Trials of Modern Times", International Journal of Women's Studies, 3, May 1982, 193-214; Gunnar Heinsohn/Otto Steiger: "Birth Control: The Political-Economic Rationale Behind Jean Bodin's "Démonomanie"", in: History of Political Economy, 31, No. 3, 423-448
^ see John M. Riddle: "The Great Witch-Hunt and the Suppression of Birth Control: Heinsohn and Steiger's Theory from the Perspective of an Historian", Appendix to: Gunnar Heinsohn/Otto Steiger: "Witchcraft, Population Catastrophe and Economic Crisis in Renaissance Europe: An Alternative Macroeconomic Explanation.", University of Bremen 2004 (download); also see John M. Riddle: Eve's Herbs: A History of Contraception and Abortion in the West, Princeton: Harvard University Press 1999, ISBN 0-674-27026-6, esp. Chapters 5-7
^ Frontier School
^ "Midwives Model of Care".
^ "North American Registry of Midwives".
^ "Financial support for students on pre-registration midwifery courses". National Health Service, UK. Retrieved June 23, 2010.
^ Threat to Independent Midwifery (BBC News)
^ Radical Midwives
^ Midwifery Universities in the UK
^ Schroff, F (1997) The New Midwifery.
^ www.midwifery.ubc.ca
^ www.cmrc.ca
^ New Zealand Health Information Service: "Report on Maternity - Maternal and Newborn Information 2003."
^ [1], Dutch website of CBS, Central Bureau of Statistics
^ [2], Dutch website of the University Medical Center Groningen midwifery clinic
^ [3], Dutch website of a typical Dutch midwifery practice
^ [4], Dutch website on preconceptional care
^ [5], Dutch website on midwifery
^ [6], Dutch website of CVZ, College for Healthcare Insurances
^ "Japanese Midwives Association" (in Japanese).
^ [7], PBS documentary Birth of a Surgeon

Besides, it's something that I've come across in various different reading. It was just easiest to link to Wiki.

 

[trumpetbum]

I think the thing with Wiki is basically that if you decide to use anything on there you then have to check the references which can be time consuming, and even if it has a crapload of references, the assumptions and views formed via those references may ignore huge parts of that research, be poorly balanced or outright misleading and since the actual Wiki article is not peer reviewed there is no way of knowing if it is a good source of information unless you personally review all of it's supporting references. It can however be a good starting point for finding evidence in a particular field but i'd never personally use it as evidence to support a point. Jmho though.

 

[KandyKinz]

lol I keep hearing that none of you want a midwife to touch them while in labour when all I can think about is that my midwife better be damn well prepared for hours and hours of counterpressure and double hip squeezes!!!!!!!!

 

[marley2580]

Sorry this is now totally OT but other sources to prove that midwives have been around for a very very long time:

https://www.studentmidwife.net/educ...tory-43/662-a-brief-history-of-midwifery.html
https://www.nursing.manchester.ac.uk/ukchnm/midwives/officeofmidwife.pdf
https://www3.utsouthwestern.edu/midwifery/mdwfhistory.html
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...CTgU#v=onepage&q=history of midwifery&f=false

 

[trumpetbum]

Another totally OT but if anyone is actually interested in this subject, one of my favourite books is The red tent. Totally fictional but a fab read.
In terms of midwifery pre-NHS/hospital = norm there is also Call the midwife, shadows of the workhouse and Farewell to the East end (all based in London docklands) as well as The Green Lady which is based in Glasgow, great anecdotal homebirth stories from midwives who brought the baby in her bag .

 

[KandyKinz]

Since we're on the midwife topic I just wanted to add that not all midwives are created equal. The training differs incredibly and some midwives in third world countries have no official training at all just a good heart and eagerness to help. To me that's an important consideration when comparing outcomes historically and among different cultures.....

 

[Celesse]

I came accross this story the other day, really sad, it is described as homebirth but sounds more along the lines of freebirth. The parents took it to the extreme.
Upsetting
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...er-mother-told-midwives-not-to-interfere.html

That is a sad story, but it's 6 years old and there will ALWAYS be extreme cases about every aspect of childbirth. That tragedy didn't happen because they freebirthed, it happened because they ignored MASSIVE risks.

Very sad, but it doesn't sound like they were well informed and understood and took steps to minimise the risk. She wasn't aware she was carrying twins, but was aware the baby was breech. Plus it sounds like midwives were there but she kept them hands off even when problems started.
If you are going to attempt something like this then you need to research the risks in advance and the couple in the article don't appear to have done so.