Vaccine induced disease?

[Aidan's Mummy]

Thankyou. Thats cleared up alot. I will now be looking more into the vaccinations and doing more reasearch of my own its actually very inetersting reading
xx

 

[brownhairedmom]

Yes, PB is right. You really need to consider how dangerous the disease is that you're vaccinating against. For example, with the chicken pox, they vaccinate because of the potential for brain swelling. However, the likelihood of getting brain swelling from the chicken pox is less than the likelihood that you'll have an adverse reaction to the vaccination - therefore, in my opinion it isn't necessary and it isn't something I'll be giving my daughter.

Another case of this is Garadsil which prevents HPV which sometimes leads to cervical cancer. However, if you get regular paps, your chance of getting untreatable cervical cancer is considerably low.

H1N1, however, has killed so many people in such a rapid time span that its really important to weigh this out and get reliable information on it because it is affecting us right now.

 

[im_mi]

Im afraid i am going to have to break with 'tradition' and go with the OP on this one.

I do believe that the big pharma giants have an agenda with this. Vaccines, medicines... all of it. If we were all in perfect health, they wouldnt be half as rich as they are now. And we couldnt have that now, could we?

 

[Alexas Mommy]

Im afraid i am going to have to break with 'tradition' and go with the OP on this one.

I do believe that the big pharma giants have an agenda with this. Vaccines, medicines... all of it. If we were all in perfect health, they wouldnt be half as rich as they are now. And we couldnt have that now, could we?

That just makes no sense at all... There will never be a time on Earth, where everyone will be healthy. I don't understand what you are trying to say! Uh, yeah, okay, Pharmacists may not have a job, neither would doctors and nurses... If money wasn't around, bankers and accountants would not have jobs. How is the point you made even relevant? Maybe I am misunderstanding your point....

 

[im_mi]

what i am trying to say is that modern medicine, in my opinion, CAUSES a lot of unnecessary problems. unnecessary interference in the bodies' natural process. I just think that money=power and power=greed which in turn =money..... Do you seriously think that the CEO's of this big companies have our best interests at heart??!! im sorry but i find that a little hard to swallow. Most of the research done into vaccines is FUNDED by the companies that are producing them, how can they be unbiased?

 

[brownhairedmom]

I just hope everyone here realizes that the reason I'm even arguing this point is that I don't think its right to make medical choices for yourself and your children based on what you read on alternative news websites and e-mail forwards. If you want some real, informative, MEDICALLY based resources on not vaccinating, then check out some of these.

"What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Childhood Immunizations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave (This book and the next are great starting points. This one has some very thorough but simple explanations about autism and other autoimmune conditions related to vaccines, the history of each vaccine and the production of each vaccine. I am SO glad I read it because it clarified a LOT of things about vaccines that I have heard about. Very worth reading!! This next one is great as well...)

The Parent's Concise Guide to Childhood Vaccinations; Practical Medical and Natural Ways to Protect Your Child by Dr. Lauren Feder, M.D. (This one is written in very plain English, easy to read and understand. She compares all sides of the argument, holistic, medical, pro-vax and anti-vax. This one is good but doesn't go into great detail about the hows and whys of ALL the rumors of vaccines as the previous one does but what I like about it is the inclusion of the holistic perspectives.)

Vaccines, Are They Really Safe and Effective by Neil Z. Miller (This one has each and every vaccine up through adulthood vaccines and is a great resource for deciding weather to selectively vaccinate. It's short and full of a lot of good information. His books are a good starting place but read other authors if you start with this one.)

Immunization Theory vs Reality by Niel Z. Miller (This one is short as well. It has a little bit more technical and medical jargon, but is still relatively easy to read. I suggest the one above first.)

Natural Baby and Childcare by Dr. Lauren Feder, M.D.

The Vaccine Book by Robert Sears, M.D. (I personally do not care for this book. He actually suggests combo vaccines - which are the most dangerous ones! And he's just way too pro-vaccination for me. I would not recommend this book to anyone. Some selective vaccinators and vaccinators do like it but I think he just leaves out too much of the controversial stuff and focuses on why vaccines are good. It's better to read something that covers all sides of the issue.)

What the Pharmaceutical Industry Does Not Wat you To Know About VACCINES by Dr. Todd M. Elsner (I have not read this one yet, but it is written by the husband of a member in this group)
https://www.exemptmychild.com/46301.html


The Truth About Vaccines by Dr Richard Halvorsen

Vaccination The Hidden Facts by Ian Sinclair (This is an older book, but it has a lot of good graphs. I didn't really like the format of this one and you can find much better and newer books that have the same information. Plus it has a grim reaper on the front which seems a little alarmist to me, lol.)

 

[im_mi]

^thank you for sharing those book lists! i am definitely going to get some of them out of the library. i really want to research this more.

 

[Tiff]

I just think that money=power and power=greed which in turn =money..... Do you seriously think that the CEO's of this big companies have our best interests at heart??!! im sorry but i find that a little hard to swallow. Most of the research done into vaccines is FUNDED by the companies that are producing them, how can they be unbiased?

I definitely agree with the money/power/greed aspect. I don't think the entire medical organization is corrupt and uncaring of our wellbeing. If that were the case no one would give a crap if there were vaccines or not. I personally don't agree with painting the entire organization with the same brush.

I'm glad you can get the info you want from the books that Rae posted.

 

[ryder]

Just to point out, since someone asked for an explanation... The mercury found in vaccines is a very small, unharful amount. It is the component which brought the controversy over the MMR vaccine as it has been claimed that the mercury can "cause" autism. Like the others said, if you eat fish, your exposing yourself to mercury anyways.

Scientific researchers having a conspiracy? Gimme a break. 100's of years ago there were no vaccines and people died routinely of minor things like measles, mumps, rubella, flus, and other things. Most of which we've rid ourselves of. I do think over vaccinating and over protecting our children does do more harm then good. Which is why we need to be selective about things and equally why our chilren need to get outside, get dirty and the odd time get sick

 

[mommyof3co]

Also remember that 100s of years ago we didn't have the medical treatment to TREAT these diseases when they were contracted....vaccines aren't the only things saving people these days. I have to say I believe that MOST of it is from the advances in treatment, sanitation and nutrition...very little to do with the vaccines. There are actually charts showing the decline in most of the diseases we are vaccinated for before vaccines were introduced due to the other things I listed. Not to say vaccines offer no protection...just aren't the gold some people (not saying anyone here) thinks they are.

I'm actually, for those who don't already know, against vaccines for MY kids...not to say for anyone else's I fully believe that is up to each parent to research, from credible sources, and make that decision. I do have to agree with the ladies that said the OP sites weren't very credible...at all. But I do agree to an extent that some of the pushing of vaccines is for money....again not to say they have zero benefit but that I think they are pushed alot because they do make money...as well as maybe help some. It's hard to get funding to research against vaccines because it ends up costing alot of money...the companies that manufacture vaccines aren't going to pay for something that will in the end cost their company even more money. But I'm not for all the conspiracy theory crap...that's my personal opinion on it but that has nothing to do with why we chose not to vaccinate. We based our decision on the ingredients in vaccines...some have some pretty nasty stuff...and the amount of mercury can be harmful to SOME kids...not to say all....also the aluminum and many other components could be harmful to some...not all..everybody's body is different and reacts differently. But we also based it on the chances of coming into contact with the disease, the side effects of that disease...good (if it had lifetime immunity, which vaccines can't offer) and bad (brain damage, death...all of it). Then compared that to the fact that if we chose to vaccinate they would most definitely be coming into contact with the things in the vaccines that we consider to be toxins, and the side effects that could have, the effectiveness of the vaccines. We came to the decision that we know is right for our family and that was to stop vaccinating my older boys and to not vaccinate our youngest.

I think that everyone should have the facts given...good and bad on both sides by doctors, instead of just the good stuff about the vaccine and then horror stories of if you don't vaccinate. It should be even and the parents left to decide what's best for their family. I spent countless hours weeding through site after site trying to make our decision...it shouldn't be that hard to get the information.

As for the H1N1 stuff....even if we were still vaccinating that would have been a definite no anyways for us. I heard a statistic a week or 2 ago...which could have changed with the new cases but 70% of those who are dying have underlying health conditions and that only about 10% of cases actually even need medical treatment. I think the media is blowing it all completely out of proportion and scaring people

 

[Tiff]

I do want to say, I definitely dislike (and believe) that there is some sort of money kickback for pushing certain drugs.

I used Diane 35 as a BCP for years. I got pregnant off it (ended up miscarrying) but not long after I got pregnant I found (after doing research) that Health Canada posted a bulletin about how harmful Diane 35 was, and how it wasn't supposed to be used for more than 3 months at a time. It helped clear up acne, and I had been on it for 2 years at that point.

After everything was all said and done, my GP asked me if I wanted to go back on Diane 35. I told her no, as according to Health Canada it was supposed to be considered as acne treatment first and foremost, and birth control as a potential side effect.

My GP told me that Health Canada was an "opinion" and it was fine to use. I argued that no it wasn't, and I wanted to have something different. I personally believe that the reason why she was pushing so hard for me to use Diane 35 was because of a money kickback for prescribing it.

But, that is just one case.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I just know I do not choose things for my daughter based on the media. I base them on medical facts and on advice from my doctors and other people who have actually studied medicine. I don't think the medical world would be getting this vaccine and making it mandatory if it was so horrible.

 

[PeanutBean]

what i am trying to say is that modern medicine, in my opinion, CAUSES a lot of unnecessary problems. unnecessary interference in the bodies' natural process. I just think that money=power and power=greed which in turn =money..... Do you seriously think that the CEO's of this big companies have our best interests at heart??!! im sorry but i find that a little hard to swallow. Most of the research done into vaccines is FUNDED by the companies that are producing them, how can they be unbiased?

I do agree that the pharma companies have an agenda however there are governmental and non-governmental organizations in place to see through any agenda and examine the science. Governments don't want to pay for a drug because it's pushed, they have limited funds and will spend it where it will hav the best impact. Just because research is funded by a company does not mean it is bad science. It is something to take into consideration but if it is published then it has been peer reviewed by a panel of scientists who are experts in the same field and these days often also assessed by a bioethics team. I suspect there may be differences in drug-pushing between countries with national and private health systems but having only lived with one I wouldn't like to speculate.

 

[marley2580]

I think my problem with a lot of the newer vaccines is that the possible long term effects are not generally studied. A lot of vaccines are only looked at for three weeks after their administration, and the possible long term effects are not looked at. I also agree with MO3 that advances in medicine have made a real improvement. We keep getting told that measles is on the increase and can kill our children, but how many children have died of measles in the last 10 years in the UK?

 

[im_mi]

^yes.

As for the mercury thing: yes it is a small amount, but the body processes it differently when its taken in via food than it is via the bloodstream. Its the same with aluminium. Aluminium intake in medicines etc is closely regulated by the FDA because too much can be harmful. When its ingested, it is harmless because the digestive system processes it properly but it can cause a lot of problems when directly put in the bloodstream, like via vaccinations. there was a brilliant article, written by a doctor, in the La Leche League magazine 'new beginnings' about it and according to her, whilst following a routine vax schedule a baby can get up to 30x the reccommended safe level of aluminium in ONE VISIT to the doctors.

 

[PeanutBean]

In trying to answer the question about how many deaths have been from measles (an odd question because measles has many other unwanted consequences and how many deaths have there been from the MMR?) I came across this autism website. The article has some links to scientific papers for all it's points and I found it was a very well written and sensible piece. Take a look for yourselves.
https://actionforautism.co.uk/2008/06/22/another-measles-death/

And another one from a pro-immunisation site but this is just the details of a relatively recent scientific paper published in the well=known journal The Lancet in 2007.
Study shows reduction in child deaths from measles following global immunisation programme

A study in The Lancet confirms that child deaths from measles have fallen by 60% following a massive global vaccination campaign, saving hundreds of thousands of lives since 1999, surpassing a UN target of halving deaths by 2005.

Vaccinations against measles given between 1999 and 2005 has prevent almost 7•5 million deaths. Additional and improved routine immunisations against measles are accountable for 2.3 million of these prevented deaths.

Wolfson L, Strebel P et al (Jan 2007) Has the 2005 measles mortality reduction goal been achieved? A natural history modelling study The Lancet 2007; 369:191-200

Here's a wonderful video and transcript demonstrating the total lack of clarity and evidence in the anti-vaccination campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dRnkmw-_L4&feature=channel_page
https://scienceblogs.com/sciencepunk/2009/02/jeni_barnett_mmr_show_-_full_t.php

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

My friends son has autsim

I think in no way think there is a link between autsim and the MMR vaccine

Doing child development and studying the difference between the development of babies with autsim and children who dont have additional needs. There is a marked difference especially in social and emotinal development even before the MMR vaccine.

For example this little boy would hate being cuddled even as a young young baby, and as he got older the differences got more sevire for example a child as they get older will parcticpate in parrell play and then actually start playing with others. At his nursery he would go and sit in the corner and not want to interact with anyone

Thats before the vaccine!! The only reason people link it with that is because the symptoms of austim becomes more prominate as they get older and around the time of the vaccine.

The mother of this child is trained in child development and she was telling her HV her son had autsim even before his MMR

x

 

[PeanutBean]

You're totally right Heather! Have a look at the link, he talks about all the mercury theories, the theories of too many at one time etc.

Edit, sorry wanted to add my nephew has autism and in hind sight there are loads of things we can see that were different from very soon after birth.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

See I do understand up to a point

I feel smart now
Bless him, I loved working with children with additional needs their determination amazed me, I also loved helping austic children come out of their shell, it was very rewarding
xx

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

His article is very interesting.
xx