Water-Drinking Pregnant Woman Asked to Leave Bar

[discoclare]

Smoking is not allowed in a lot of states but people still do it. Let's face it, people drink and than they smoke. My aunt and uncle own a bar in the state of Ohio where it is also illegal to smoke in a bar. But it isn't enforced. I'm not saying this bar is the same but just throwing that out there.

I'm going OT a bit but when I was in San Francisco in February last year I saw people smoking in restaurants (I was pregnant at the time) and I just could not believe it. I was sooo shocked because I know smoking in bars and I thought restaurants had been banned a long time ago in California, I asked my family who live there and they said "yeah it's not allowed!". In the UK it's only been banned a couple of years but from the moment it started it was strongly enforced, bar and restaurant owners can get in a lot of trouble and a huge fine which just isn't worth it for them. You always see people smoking outside bars and pubs here even though it's frickin' freezing for a lot of the year.

If the bar was really that rough I'm surprised the girl's friends took her there in the first place. The bouncers were within their right to suggest to her that it wasn't a safe environment but I don't think she should have been asked to leave. I was at a pub quiz the night before I went into labour (drinking non-alcoholic drinks), our team won the quiz. For the PP who said that nights out should stop once you're pregnant: work doesn't stop, no other aspects of ordinary life stop so why should going out? I was still working up to when I went into labour so if I was fit enough to do that I think I was fit enough to sit in a smoke-free pub with my friends after work too.

 

[AriannasMama]

Smoking is not allowed in a lot of states but people still do it. Let's face it, people drink and than they smoke. My aunt and uncle own a bar in the state of Ohio where it is also illegal to smoke in a bar. But it isn't enforced. I'm not saying this bar is the same but just throwing that out there.

I'm going OT a bit but when I was in San Francisco in February last year I saw people smoking in restaurants (I was pregnant at the time) and I just could not believe it. I was sooo shocked because I know smoking in bars and I thought restaurants had been banned a long time ago in California, I asked my family who live there and they said "yeah it's not allowed!". In the UK it's only been banned a couple of years but from the moment it started it was strongly enforced, bar and restaurant owners can get in a lot of trouble and a huge fine which just isn't worth it for them. You always see people smoking outside bars and pubs here even though it's frickin' freezing for a lot of the year.

If the bar was really that rough I'm surprised the girl's friends took her there in the first place. The bouncers were within their right to suggest to her that it wasn't a safe environment but I don't think she should have been asked to leave. I was at a pub quiz the night before I went into labour (drinking non-alcoholic drinks), our team won the quiz. For the PP who said that nights out should stop once you're pregnant: work doesn't stop, no other aspects of ordinary life stop so why should going out? I was still working up to when I went into labour so if I was fit enough to do that I think I was fit enough to sit in a smoke-free pub with my friends after work too.

OT but I LOVE your daughters name.

 

[marley2580]

Bloody ridiculous. It really seems that society is heading more and more towards a woman loosing all rights over her body as soon as she becomes pregnant. Do you know that in the US there have been cases where a woman has been legally forced to have a c-section because her doctor didn't want to try for a vbac. It's shocking.

The bouncer should have told her that it was a rough bar and that she may want to reconsider being there, but unless there was a sign on the door saying 'no pregnant women allowed', she should not have been asked to leave. And the comments above about how her friends weren't going to look after her as they had ordered shots! She's a grown woman, not a child, she can look after herself!

 

[cleckner04]

Umm I'm sorry but no one can be forced to have a csection, it's just a matter of finding someone that is willing to perform a VBAC. A lot of doctors won't do VBACS and it's understandable with the higher risks involved. But this is a free country, we can easily find new doctors that are willing.

 

[marley2580]

Umm I'm sorry but no one can be forced to have a csection, it's just a matter of finding someone that is willing to perform a VBAC. A lot of doctors won't do VBACS and it's understandable with the higher risks involved. But this is a free country, we can easily find new doctors that are willing.

Actually

Increasingly in the United States, pregnant women are encountering legal or more subtle pressures to have c-sections. Currently, more than a million expectant women have the operation annually, as America's rate of surgical deliveries has hit an all-time high. In 2003, cesareans accounted for nearly 28 percent of births in this country, compared with just 5 percent in 1970. Many factors contributed to this rise--increasing numbers of repeat c-sections, doctors' fears of malpractice lawsuits, and women waiting longer to have kids (which is related to higher rates of complications), to name a few. But while the procedure is usually quite safe and can be potentially lifesaving for mother and baby, it also poses a number of potential risks, including severe bleeding, infection, injury to the fetus, blood clots, and even the mother's death in extremely rare cases.

Yet hospitals in at least a dozen states have obtained court orders to compel unwilling women to undergo this major abdominal surgery. And while Marlowe was able to escape the scalpel, other patients were operated on-- despite their verbal or even physical resistance. In a tragic 1984 case, staff at a Chicago hospital forcibly tied a pregnant Nigerian woman who had declined a c-section to her hospital bed with leather wrist and ankle restraints. The woman objected to the surgery because she planned to return to Nigeria where the operation wasn't readily available, and she rightfully worried about health risks, including a ruptured uterus, if she became pregnant again and had another child vaginally back home. As she screamed for help and frantically tried to free herself, doctors, with a judge's permission, wheeled her off to the O.R. to perform the procedure.

https://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/articles/forced_c-section.htm

and

When an expecting mother is getting ready to give birth, the last thing she expects is the court taking custody of her unborn fetus.

Sound inconceivable? Unfortunately, it has happened to many women in the United States. Most recently, the Huffington Post reported the story of a woman in New Jersey who was charged with abuse and neglect for not consenting to a cesarean section. The stories have ranged from infuriating to tragic, and they all result in a woman's lack of choice in her birth.

https://www.suite101.com/content/forced-cesarean-sections-whose-right-is-it-a138900

 

[cleckner04]

Okay, I'm not arguing because this is completely off the original topic. I stand by what I said and a few random articles and something that happened to a few women way back before I was even born isn't going to sway me. No one held a gun to my head and told me I had to have a c-section. Even when Emma's life was in danger with her heartrate dropping they still gave me the choice to still go on and try for a natural birth but I opted to get her out quickly by c-section. You have to sign consent forms and go through the entire process before having one.

 

[Marlarky]

Its definitely enforced around here. NO smoking in any public place, even outdoor malls. I dunno, I felt awkward when I went to that bar with my OH when I was 8 months pregnant, even tho all I was having was water, it was just kinda weird.

I used to smoke all the time in Oakbrook Mall lol is it banned there now???

 

[KrisKitten]

It's their own private business, not a public service so they have the right to refuse service to who they please if they believe it could be a health risk.
Also it's ridiculous she should sue, you sue if you are losing out on somehting to try and make up for damages caused. By rights if she sues and wins she should be awarded a slice of pizza, a dark noisy room and the rest of her glass of water..about $5 then?
It's totally different for a woman to sue due to losing her job, that's loss of earnings. Or for serious injury there is mental welfare and loss of earnings.
I hate the sueing society, its mad. People are incapable of taking responsibility for their own decisions and actions and for that reason businesses are often forced to take responsibility for them.
Don't like it don't support those businesses or the sueing society

 

[annawrigley]

Its discrimination. Period. A woman is not allowed to be fired if she is pregnant, the empolyer must make alternatives for her. She is allowed to SUE if they fire her for being pregnant. Its the same thing. If a non pregnant woman goes to that bar, its her responsibility if something happens. Just like any other woman including pregnant women!! If anything, that bouncer should have just reminded her that she is responsible for anything that happens at the bar. She has a right to sue. Its discrimination.

No its not the same thing. If a pregnant woman lost her job because she was pregnant, thats not fair. Shes no longer working, she has no income. Of course she should sue. They obviously had good reason for asking her to leave, he sounds like a reasonable person since he took her aside and asked nicely rather than just demanding it in front of everyone, she may be a little bit annoyed but hardly reason to sue is it. Ffs are there not more important things in the world. Some people gave me funny looks when I was pregnant cos i'm short and looked about 12 (was 16). Thats discrimination. Shall I sue?

It's their own private business, not a public service so they have the right to refuse service to who they please if they believe it could be a health risk.
Also it's ridiculous she should sue, you sue if you are losing out on somehting to try and make up for damages caused. By rights if she sues and wins she should be awarded a slice of pizza, a dark noisy room and the rest of her glass of water..about $5 then?
It's totally different for a woman to sue due to losing her job, that's loss of earnings. Or for serious injury there is mental welfare and loss of earnings.
I hate the sueing society, its mad. People are incapable of taking responsibility for their own decisions and actions and for that reason businesses are often forced to take responsibility for them.
Don't like it don't support those businesses or the sueing society

Completely agree Its ridiculous

 

[smokey]

Bloody ridiculous. It really seems that society is heading more and more towards a woman loosing all rights over her body as soon as she becomes pregnant. Do you know that in the US there have been cases where a woman has been legally forced to have a c-section because her doctor didn't want to try for a vbac. It's shocking.

The bouncer should have told her that it was a rough bar and that she may want to reconsider being there, but unless there was a sign on the door saying 'no pregnant women allowed', she should not have been asked to leave. And the comments above about how her friends weren't going to look after her as they had ordered shots! She's a grown woman, not a child, she can look after herself!

But maybe if people where not so quick to sue over the slightest little thing then sociaty wouldnt need to head that way.
Not just in this case but in everyday life if more people took responsability for themselves and their actions then there would be more choices to be responsable for.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I agree with the bar. If they felt it was not a safe environment, so be it. It probably wasn't. Imagine if something did go wrong.

 

[oread]

Obviously several of you don't understand the concept of discrimination. Businesses are allowed to refuse service to anyone UNLESS they are discriminating against them based on race, color, religion, etc. Otherwise there would still be businesses that still would not serve minorities, but obviously that is illegal. Throwing someone out of a bar because they are pregnant is blatantly discriminatory against women.

If they are allowed to refuse service to any pregnant woman, what is to stop them from asking every female in the establishment if they are pregnant? Pregnancy isn't obvious for the first several months so maybe every girl who comes in the door can be told they need to take a pregnancy test before being served. Its totally ridiculous to say that the bar or the bouncer was in any way justified, just because a woman is pregnant she is in no way more of a liability to them than anyone else. It isn't up to the bar or any other business to "protect" pregnant women. If, by the very small chance that she was hurt, it would be the responsibility of whoever hurt her and not the bar. All this bullshit about safety is just that, because the MOST dangerous thing any of us do is get in a car and most of us do that every day... a bar is a lot safer than riding in a vehicle, so where is push to forbid pregnant women from driving? Every time you step outside of your house you are putting yourself at risk, so this fanaticism about safety and pregnant women needing to be protected is total BS. We are not public property, we have the right to make our own decisions, and we do not forfeit our rights the moment we get pregnant.

The saddest part about this is that she might actually lose the lawsuit because women are not protected by the civil rights act that protects people from discrimination based on race and religion, so technically its still constitutional to discriminate against women.

 

[Nic1107]

I understand the concept of discrimination perfectly well, we are none of us stupid. It's still a matter of opinion whether the bar was in the right or wrong, and whether or not it's something worth suing over. I am of the opinion that I'd find the situation annoying but not something I'd take the time and money to go to court over.

Airlines and theme parks also turn away pregnant women for reasons of liability; there seems to be a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". If a woman would sue over being asked to leave, certainly there are women who would try to sue the establishment if she was hurt by rowdy patrons or whatever. And yes, women are protected by civil rights laws- she wasn't asked to leave simply because she's a woman. She wasn't refused a job or refused a rental property. Asking her to leave may have been OTT (although from the reputation of this bar, it probably wasn't), but suing is much further OTT, IMO!

 

[smokey]

Obviously several of you don't understand the concept of discrimination. Businesses are allowed to refuse service to anyone UNLESS they are discriminating against them based on race, color, religion, etc. Otherwise there would still be businesses that still would not serve minorities, but obviously that is illegal. Throwing someone out of a bar because they are pregnant is blatantly discriminatory against women.

If they are allowed to refuse service to any pregnant woman, what is to stop them from asking every female in the establishment if they are pregnant? Pregnancy isn't obvious for the first several months so maybe every girl who comes in the door can be told they need to take a pregnancy test before being served. Its totally ridiculous to say that the bar or the bouncer was in any way justified, just because a woman is pregnant she is in no way more of a liability to them than anyone else. It isn't up to the bar or any other business to "protect" pregnant women. If, by the very small chance that she was hurt, it would be the responsibility of whoever hurt her and not the bar. All this bullshit about safety is just that, because the MOST dangerous thing any of us do is get in a car and most of us do that every day... a bar is a lot safer than riding in a vehicle, so where is push to forbid pregnant women from driving? Every time you step outside of your house you are putting yourself at risk, so this fanaticism about safety and pregnant women needing to be protected is total BS. We are not public property, we have the right to make our own decisions, and we do not forfeit our rights the moment we get pregnant.

The saddest part about this is that she might actually lose the lawsuit because women are not protected by the civil rights act that protects people from discrimination based on race and religion, so technically its still constitutional to discriminate against women.

Thank you for your inlightenment but I do understand the concept of discrimination.
If it is in the interest of health, safety, others welbeing and security then it is not discrimination.
After all you would not sue if you where refused entry to a male toilet would you?
If its a case of things like children not being allowed into a bar then that is just ruling to protect the child (although by your definition would be ageism) not discrimination.

If you look at reviews and such on this bar then you would see that it does have a bad reputation for fights and such breaking out and to be honest their rules are probably not even there to actualy protect pregnant women as such they are there to protect themselves from people sueing if they got hurt.

If the bouncer had said "get out we only allow fit, single women in here" then that would be discrimination.

With this fascination of sueing over the slightest pathetic little thing the world seems to have no wonder businesses have to try to protect themselfs.
If there is a genuine reasonable reason as to who they refuse entry to then they are well within their rights.

 

[Dragonfly]

I am with blackberry , smokey and nic on this one.

 

[Ilovehim89]

This just down right irritates me. Who's to say the bouncer was protecting her and not being a complete jerk? Were you there? did you see it happen? no. She wasnt drinking, she wasnt smoking, she was there trying to have a good time, it seems to me. I like to go sing karaoke...so if I was pregnant, Would I be BANNED from going to sing karaoke all because I am pregnant? It IS her responsibility on what happens to her and her baby, so if she decides she wants to go hang out with friends, drink water, and eat a slice a pizza, then let her. If she wants to sue because she felt like she was being discriminated against, then thats her prerogative. I would be royally POed if I was with my friends or my DH for that matter, enjoying a night out before the baby arrives, not drinking, and then being told to get out just because i was pregnant.
A little OT but when I was pregnant, I was told I was fat and disgusting by some old lady in the store and I THINK when the lady at the "bar" was told (not asked) to leave, then she probably thought that he was discriminating against her because she was "disgusting, big, and pregnant" (no i do not feel this way about pregnant women, i am just stating how she might have felt after the situation because I was told i was FAT when i was 8 months preggo with my DD and I am no where near it but it still hurt) So maybe she is suing because she was discriminated against and what he did made her sad and was not called for... Just my honest opinion. If he was worried about her safety he wouldnt have said "no pregnant women allowed" he should have said "You are responsible if something were to happen to you and we can not take responsibility"

 

[annawrigley]

This just down right irritates me. Who's to say the bouncer was protecting her and not being a complete jerk? Were you there? did you see it happen? no. She wasnt drinking, she wasnt smoking, she was there trying to have a good time, it seems to me. I like to go sing karaoke...so if I was pregnant, Would I be BANNED from going to sing karaoke all because I am pregnant? It IS her responsibility on what happens to her and her baby, so if she decides she wants to go hang out with friends, drink water, and eat a slice a pizza, then let her. If she wants to sue because she felt like she was being discriminated against, then thats her prerogative. I would be royally POed if I was with my friends or my DH for that matter, enjoying a night out before the baby arrives, not drinking, and then being told to get out just because i was pregnant.
A little OT but when I was pregnant, I was told I was fat and disgusting by some old lady in the store and I THINK when the lady at the "bar" was told (not asked) to leave, then she probably thought that he was discriminating against her because she was "disgusting, big, and pregnant" (no i do not feel this way about pregnant women, i am just stating how she might have felt after the situation because I was told i was FAT when i was 8 months preggo with my DD and I am no where near it but it still hurt) So maybe she is suing because she was discriminated against and what he did made her sad and was not called for... Just my honest opinion. If he was worried about her safety he wouldnt have said "no pregnant women allowed" he should have said "You are responsible if something were to happen to you and we can not take responsibility"

Were you?

 

[Ilovehim89]

didnt say i was.. but it clearly states in the article that she wasnt planning on DRINKING! They had NO right to kick her out just because she was pregnant. I didnt point you out as an individual so i would prefer if you would do the same and not point out me out just because i have a different opinion on the matter and then asking if I was there...when under my name it clearly states im in ID and not in Illinois and btw, no need to be rude. I was stating MY opinion.

 

[KrisKitten]

didnt say i was.. but it clearly states in the article that she wasnt planning on DRINKING! They had NO right to kick her out just because she was pregnant. I didnt point you out as an individual so i would prefer if you would do the same and not point out me out just because i have a different opinion on the matter and then asking if I was there...when under my name it clearly states im in ID and not in Illinois and btw, no need to be rude. I was stating MY opinion.

I am quoting you not to pick on you but because i would like to discuss the point you have raised, just as anna did before - you brought up the question of people speaking from first hand experience, she questioned your opinion:
Anyhoo, They did have a right to ask her to leave. It is their premises, the company that employed the bouncer paid for licensing and building and staff etc etc - it's all very well to say he should of just warned her but in this day and age unless there is something in writing people still like to take companies for whatever they are worth.
Also we cannot debate the tone of the bouncer, or the personal emotions of the woman. What we're discussing is whether it is right or wrong to ask a pregnant woman to leave a bar. It's neither here nor there whether the woman would have read further into his request for her to leave
Also guaranteed if he had said anything rude or insulting the article would have published it to make a juicier story.

Also to the other posters point about discrimination:
Yes you are actually right, this situation does adhere to the technical definition of discrimination but so do (as another poster said) male/female toilets.(this is a hypothetical example) Would you sue a bar that wouldn't allow you inside with your children at night for discrimination against parents?
xxx

 

[smokey]

didnt say i was.. but it clearly states in the article that she wasnt planning on DRINKING! They had NO right to kick her out just because she was pregnant. I didnt point you out as an individual so i would prefer if you would do the same and not point out me out just because i have a different opinion on the matter and then asking if I was there...when under my name it clearly states im in ID and not in Illinois and btw, no need to be rude. I was stating MY opinion.

Sorry but if you are going to clearly state a bold remarke like

Were you there? did you see it happen? no.

then you can not be annoyed when someone asks it back and returns the sentiment behind the remark.

You can not help but single someone out when it is a direct reply to them, as for stating its your matter of oppinion that is what everyone here is doing also, no single person has the right to an oppinion with it being questioned or remarked upon.
None of us are above that so there realy isnt a need to be rude to someone who asks you the same thing you asked yourself.