Weaning at 4 months

[summer rain]

Again the article in the daily mail quotes a study (in reality an opinion piece based on older studies) that has not only been discredited but it WAS one of the pieces of evidence the government looked at in deciding to keep the age at 6 months. The government are not blindly following WHO advice but even if they were, despite popular belief the WHOs advice was not made with those in developing countries in mind, nor were the studies that the WHO used to decide on the 6 month age based on babies in developing countries. The majority of the studies they used and they keep looking at new ones, come from the USA, Canada, Japan and European countries like Sweden. If anything it could be argued that their advice may not be ideal for those from developing countries as the number of studies they have used from such countries are so few in number. Xx

As previously stated, the 6 month guideline was set by the World Health Organisation for all babies all over the world, as the safety of food in developing nations couldn't be guaranteed. The Department of Health in the UK has followed suit. But there are calls for the UK guidelines to be revised, according to a recent report.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1348093/So-IS-safest-time-wean-baby.html#ixzz1wSjfN6zP

I know, I know....it's the Daily Mail. But really the the NHS page that was linked doesn't really say anything except 'we say it's 6 months, because we do. So there.'

I've actually only just read this article today - I made the decision to start my son on solid food at 17 weeks all by myself. Without the help of anyone's guidelines.

 

[summer rain]

My second youngest was on mainly formula by 17 weeks but he showed no signs of interest in or being ready for solids, and by 5.5 months he was fully formula fed and still had no interest at all in solids, started sleeping through for the first time and we struggled to get him to drink the 'correct' number of oz for his weight and age and consequently his weight began to plateau. I finally introduced him to solids at 6.5 months but he had a very strong gag reflex and so he wasn't eating well until 9 or 10 months xx

 

[katiekittykat]

As soon as I was satisfied in my own mind that it was safe for Niall to have solid food ie 17 weeks, I gave it to him. I didn't, and don't, like him having formula. When BF didn't work out for us, I broke my heart over that first formula feed at 3 weeks. You may have been happy giving it to your child, I am not.

And as I said in a later post, the Daily Mail article may well be an opinion piece - aren't all of these things though? -and parts of incorect, but I agree with the sentiment overall. Where are you getting your info about government studies and why they decided to do what they do Summer Rain? Do you work for the Department of Health?

 

[summer rain]

No I am getting it from a blog post the chief medical officer posted in January 2011 on this subject, it is no longer linked to on the DoH/NHS site as they now have a date cut off of around 2 years for articles. Ill see if the article is still online somewhere else. The government reviews the weaning age every 2-4 years as a matter of course and one of these reviews was last year. Xx

 

[summer rain]

Found it

https://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/01January/Pages/call-for-breastfeeding-advice-to-be-re-examined.aspx

They started the review in 2010 but it wasn't finished until 2011 when the updated info was placed on the NHS website. The article on there did used to say written in 2008 due to be reviewed in 2010, however the review took quite a few months as there was a lot more evidence to sift through in comparison to previously Xx

 

[katiekittykat]

Yes, but this is breastfeeding. I fully agree with exclusively breastfeeding for 6 months if you can. Not everyone is that lucky though.

And one of the concluding comments in this article is

A recent review by the European Food Safety Authority’s panel on dietetic products, nutrition and allergies, concluded that “complementary foods may be introduced safely between four and six months, and six months of exclusive breastfeeding may not always provide sufficient nutrition for optimal growth and development.”

Which was the point of the thread I think.

Fair point about the WHO research though

 

[summer rain]

Again the review by the EFSA was one of the pieces of evidence looked at in the government review and they still felt in most cases as close to 6 months as possible is best. There is some debate as to whether this applies to FF babies but the UK government in their official advice don't make any distinction. I can only speak for myself but I personally felt for my FF boy that formula was a suitable breast milk substitute for him and more so than other foods for the first six months. Also he had only started being switched over to formula due to allergies at 15 weeks so introducing solids at 17 weeks would not have been wise. Only my eldest showed signs of readiness for solids at 4 months but he did have reflux and so I was told it may help, it didn't help in his case and led to him giving up BF early which from anecdotal evidence seems to be quite common in BF babies who are weaned onto solids much earlier than six months xx

 

[1stTimeAround]

same people same crap being said...

 

[Pinky12]

so bored of reading the same stuff. Its always the same people ganging up on other yet admin are contacting and targeting other users who actually try and help and judge. Fed up of the judgmental people on this site that ruin the support network for new mothers. Just a shame some of these people post their single minded opinions elsewhere too. The OP should do what she wants to do with HER own child. I certainly wouldn't take advice from baby club after seeing the threads over the past month!

 

[readytotry]

so bored of reading the same stuff. Its always the same people ganging up on other yet admin are contacting and targeting other users who actually try and help and judge. Fed up of the judgmental people on this site that ruin the support network for new mothers. Just a shame some of these people post their single minded opinions elsewhere too. The OP should do what she wants to do with HER own child. I certainly wouldn't take advice from baby club after seeing the threads over the past month!

So don't read them. The OP asked for advice and was given it. As far as I can see both sides of the debate were represented and it didn't get too heated.
It wouldn't be much use to the OP if everyone just told her to do what she wants. Some people come on here to actually hear different pov rather than just get reassurance about decisions they have already made.
It's not always "judging" to have and defend a different opinion.

 

[Lauki]

so bored of reading the same stuff. Its always the same people ganging up on other yet admin are contacting and targeting other users who actually try and help and judge. Fed up of the judgmental people on this site that ruin the support network for new mothers. Just a shame some of these people post their single minded opinions elsewhere too. The OP should do what she wants to do with HER own child. I certainly wouldn't take advice from baby club after seeing the threads over the past month!

What are you on about? She is giving advice based on research! Which is the best thing anyone can do on a site where new mums come...

She IS trying to help, by not saying 'oooh mum knows best, do whatever you want'.. Sometimes mum does NOT know best, because they do not have X-ray vision for example. She is only trying to educate people, which I think is a wonderful thing.

 

[katiekittykat]

I'm perfectly able to educate myself thanks!

I would like to think that other members are 'sharing' what they found on the internet with others. I find what you've said a little bit patronising actually, and far more so than the lady you're sticking up for.

 

[05mummy07]

I'm sorry right... Until you've been in a situation, you can't comment on it.

I refuse to follow guidelines of little grade A students who have probably never even been around a baby. Let alone know what's best for them.

I have three perfectly happy and healthy children and my instinct is to thank for that. If you don't know what is best for your own child, then by all means let someone else tell you how to raise them.

 

[Lauki]

I don't mind what word you want to use for it. Educate/share (sorry my first language isn't English, sometimes I use words that end up being the wrong ones for what I mean, although I don't think educating someone is patronising. I'm becoming a breastfeeding peer supported and hope to educate people on breastfeeding, I think this is a good thing. In the end it's up to the person listening what to do with the information).

The point is, I'm tired of people saying that whenever someone actually quotes research that they're ganging up on people, or making people feel bad or whatever.

Maybe it's because it's happening over and over and over again.. As soon as someone says weaning before 6 months is probably not a good idea unless there's medical reasons, they get instantly dismissed and jumped upon. In the end, it's good advice and it sucks that it's getting dismissed so easily, because there WILL be mums who will make the choice to wean while it's not necessary yet.

 

[Lauki]

I'm sorry right... Until you've been in a situation, you can't comment on it.

I refuse to follow guidelines of little grade A students who have probably never even been around a baby. Let alone know what's best for them.

I have three perfectly happy and healthy children and my instinct is to thank for that. If you don't know what is best for your own child, then by all means let someone else tell you how to raise them.

We are talking about science here though. And I think the WHO has a lot of researcher who are very much so more clever than me. And I DO trust their findings. Obviously there's a million and one things where instinct comes into play. I just don't believe weaning early when not necessary (so I'm not talking about reflux and any other medical reasons) has anything to do with instinct.

 

[Spiffynoodles]

My parents started me on rice cereal when I was four months old.

I turned out okay.

 

[summer rain]

I have been in a situation where I had to consider and chose early weaning so I can comment on it. The current health secretary has five children so I am quite sure he has been around babies at some point . The chief medical officer has two daughters of her own. I cannot speak for every single researcher, but the research all involves observing babies too and is usually conducted by paediatricians who have been working for many many years, so those making these guidelines have been around babies and have the research to back up what they say. Yes personally I would rather follow advice based on many thousands of pieces of evidence (the original WHO advice was based on 16 studies but 3000 pieces of individual evidence) than my own whims. Its entirely up to you if you want to think that is somehow, bad parenting. xx

 

[katiekittykat]

But who are you, or anyone, to say that it's not necessary for any individual child before 6 months? I disagree - it was necessary for my child, and not just because of reflux, but because he was hungry. All babies are different and they DO develop differently.

It's not just that people who quote guidelines/research etc are jumped on - anyone who suggests that they want to start their babies on solids before 6 months is made to feel stupid and irresponsible (although that is probably not people's intention). The science says that it is advisable to exclusively breastfeed and not introduce solids until after 6 months HOWEVER some babies will be ready prior to this and their digestive systems will be ready at 17 weeks. I've no doubt that some babies will be ready before 17 weeks, but this is the information I chose to take notice of.

Oh, and the health secretary could be like the old woman in the shoe....he's a politician, not a scientist, and has nish to do with it. The next cabinet reshuffle he could be the defence secretary, and I'm sure he hasn't got his own Chinnok helicopter to qualify him for the job.

 

[readytotry]

I actually agree that people shouldn't blindly follow the guidelines. It is important to me to understand where they have come from and who is suggesting them. I think it is quite healthy to be sceptical.
I am a first-time mum, so don't feel massively confident at being able to tell when my baby is "ready", but I have found out what to look for (sitting unaided, hand-mouth coordination, no tongue thrust reflex). I think because I am not sure that I will be able to spot these for certain I will probably wait until 6 months just to be on the safe side (I was weaned early and have the asthma/hayfever/eczema trio as well as pre-diabetes).
I'm not saying that I have these things because I was weaned earlier than six months but maybe I have them because I was weaned before I was ready.
Sorry this is a bit rambly - all I meant to say was I don't judge people who go by their own convictions and I am glad there are a wide range of opinions on this forum. I do, however, think certain posters spend a lot of time giving good advice (which the OP did ask for), which they have obviously spent a lot of time researching and it is rude for someone to call it the "same old crap" just because they disagree with it.

 

[summer rain]

I said the chief medical officer (who is a woman) has two daughters while you could argue Andrew Lansley doesn't come from a medical background, Dame Sally Davies is a medical doctor. Also most of this research is carried out by paediatricians who have been working directly with children and babies for years; if not decades. Why is it ok when an individual health visitor or paediatrician says weaning at 4 months is fine; and their advice is taken as being from their experience and knowledge but when many paediatricians based on research say waiting until 6 months is better they 'obviously have never been around children' etc etc? I am genuinely curious as to why the advice of one individual health professional whose advice may not have come from entirely impartial sources is more trustworthy than the view of many paediatricians making their judgement based on studies based on hundreds if not thousands of children from various different countries? xx