What If There Was No Formula?

[emyandpotato]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

[NellyLou]

Even if they can relactate, it would probably be nearly impossible to get enough supply. And typically when you adopt, you don't get to take the baby home right away and aren't allowed to stay in the hospital (here anyway). The majority of people who adopt only find out they are gettng a child a month or so before they become parents. That certainly isn't much time to establish a supply when they also have to prepare for a child in such a short time. And two dad families have no shot at lactating.

 

[NellyLou]

Should have read your post first emyandpotato. I just repeated you lol.

 

[KiwiMOM]

I actually think men can lactate a little following that same plan. I remember hearing that somewhere!! Obviously they'd have to be really keen! You also have to wonder how much of a supply they could build, really.

 

[lhancock90]

^ I'd be interested in the article/evidence about this.

 

[NellyLou]

I looked it up, and apparently it is true, although I doubt they would ever get enough supply. If I couldn't get enough supply, then how can a man?! Also, if it were true, we all know that as soon as men had to bf, formula would be invented so fast! lol

 

[leannejkl]

my babies have been born prem one at 24 weeks, who i did express for up to 12 weeks but when your travelling back and forth to a hospital to see your sick baby not knowing if she will make it it makes keeping a good supply really had, my newest baby was born at 28 weeks, again i expressed for a few weeks but i could not maintain the amount of times i needed to express.... and to be honest after burying 4 babies, i truly felt i had other things to worry, do then stressing myself with trying to express.... in special care the real tiny babies whoo mums managed to express took their baby home having to add to their breast milk as the milk alone would not make the baby gain weight, after 5 months in hospital with one baby and another 8 weeks twice over i can say this as i saw it happen a lot, so i dont stress myself not having managed it as i know my babys were really low weights and they would have needed more then my breast milk... thinking about whats important in life in my eyes, its seeing your baby alive and well. i could not care less if a baby had a bottle or breast in the mouth as long as the baby is ok, i dont see why more people dont get this.... there are 100% more worse things that can happen to a baby then being FF.... people need to stop judging a mothers choice, just deal with your family and be proud of what you. FF or BF your baby is here happy and healthy. that should be enough,

 

[TriChick]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I agree with you Emy. Due to nerve damage in my right nipple as a result surgery years ago, every time LO latched on it would send a constant shooting pain through my shoulder and down into my arm. I was in tears, and dreaded the thought of the next feeding time After a week I decided to exclusively express, as I (naively) thought that it would be a good solution and allow me to enjoy my time with my son more. Unfortunately the reality was that, in order to have ANY chance at establishing a good supply, I was instructed to develope a routine of pumping for 25 minutes at a time (due to the pain, I had to pump on the lowest setting which took FOREVER), and repeat every two hours. Twelve times a day, around the clock. During this time, I couldn't hold my son due to both the presence of the double pump and lack of trust that my right arm wouldn't give out. In between pumps, I fed him via bottle while attempting to clean my pump parts and maybe get in twenty minutes or so of eating/sleeping/shower before my alarm went off to start again. I was slowly having to start supplementing when the fenugreek/increase in water/everything shy of medication couldn't increase my supply to the amount he needed. At the month mark, we switched to formula because I developed PND and was emotionally and physically beyond exhausted. I missed my son, and he needed his mother. For us, switching was the best choice I could have made for everyone involved.

 

[leannejkl]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I agree with you Emy. Due to nerve damage in my right nipple as a result surgery years ago, every time LO latched on it would send a constant shooting pain through my shoulder and down into my arm. I was in tears, and dreaded the thought of the next feeding time After a week I decided to exclusively express, as I (naively) thought that it would be a good solution and allow me to enjoy my time with my son more. Unfortunately the reality was that, in order to have ANY chance at establishing a good supply, I was instructed to develope a routine of pumping for 25 minutes at a time (due to the pain, I had to pump on the lowest setting which took FOREVER), and repeat every two hours. Twelve times a day, around the clock. During this time, I couldn't hold my son due to both the presence of the double pump and lack of trust that my right arm wouldn't give out. In between pumps, I fed him via bottle while attempting to clean my pump parts and maybe get in twenty minutes or so of eating/sleeping/shower before my alarm went off to start again. I was slowly having to start supplementing when the fenugreek/increase in water/everything shy of medication couldn't increase my supply to the amount he needed. At the month mark, we switched to formula because I developed PND and was emotionally and physically beyond exhausted. I missed my son, and he needed his mother. For us, switching was the best choice I could have made for everyone involved.

this....

people assume, just pump then... not caring to your life... i could no way pump every two hours like i was told to, i was back and forth to a hospital 4 times a day, waiting half an hour for the bus each way 20 min bus ride, i had no outside help or support to get me back and forth so i could make time for pumping. when baby came home inbetween feeding her, cleaning house, eating myself, sleeping, washing baby and washing clothes and sending time with her i could not spend every two hours pumping.... some people are not lucky enough to have support to help them with the baby while they pump. to take some of the load of so they can do what they need to do....

some people are just happy to have a baby to love and look after and thats enough for them, breast feeding does not make you a better parent then someone who does not.

i do not feel bad i dont breast feed, i never will, i have had to do whats best for me and my child ad thats better for us then me stressing over something that would be able to sense when i have a second option in front of me...

 

[TriChick]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I agree with you Emy. Due to nerve damage in my right nipple as a result surgery years ago, every time LO latched on it would send a constant shooting pain through my shoulder and down into my arm. I was in tears, and dreaded the thought of the next feeding time After a week I decided to exclusively express, as I (naively) thought that it would be a good solution and allow me to enjoy my time with my son more. Unfortunately the reality was that, in order to have ANY chance at establishing a good supply, I was instructed to develope a routine of pumping for 25 minutes at a time (due to the pain, I had to pump on the lowest setting which took FOREVER), and repeat every two hours. Twelve times a day, around the clock. During this time, I couldn't hold my son due to both the presence of the double pump and lack of trust that my right arm wouldn't give out. In between pumps, I fed him via bottle while attempting to clean my pump parts and maybe get in twenty minutes or so of eating/sleeping/shower before my alarm went off to start again. I was slowly having to start supplementing when the fenugreek/increase in water/everything shy of medication couldn't increase my supply to the amount he needed. At the month mark, we switched to formula because I developed PND and was emotionally and physically beyond exhausted. I missed my son, and he needed his mother. For us, switching was the best choice I could have made for everyone involved.

this....

people assume, just pump then... not caring to your life... i could no way pump every two hours like i was told to, i was back and forth to a hospital 4 times a day, waiting half an hour for the bus each way 20 min bus ride, i had no outside help or support to get me back and forth so i could make time for pumping. when baby came home inbetween feeding her, cleaning house, eating myself, sleeping, washing baby and washing clothes and sending time with her i could not spend every two hours pumping.... some people are not lucky enough to have support to help them with the baby while they pump. to take some of the load of so they can do what they need to do....

some people are just happy to have a baby to love and look after and thats enough for them, breast feeding does not make you a better parent then someone who does not.

i do not feel bad i dont breast feed, i never will, i have had to do whats best for me and my child ad thats better for us then me stressing over something that would be able to sense when i have a second option in front of me...

I couldn't even BEGIN to imagine having to do it all without the help of someone else OH helped me as best he could, but it was still incredibly overwhelming for all of us as there were many things he COULDN'T do to help. It killed him as well to see me suffering both emotionally and physically. Even with the joy of our new baby boy, it was a very difficult time for all three of us.

 

[leannejkl]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I agree with you Emy. Due to nerve damage in my right nipple as a result surgery years ago, every time LO latched on it would send a constant shooting pain through my shoulder and down into my arm. I was in tears, and dreaded the thought of the next feeding time After a week I decided to exclusively express, as I (naively) thought that it would be a good solution and allow me to enjoy my time with my son more. Unfortunately the reality was that, in order to have ANY chance at establishing a good supply, I was instructed to develope a routine of pumping for 25 minutes at a time (due to the pain, I had to pump on the lowest setting which took FOREVER), and repeat every two hours. Twelve times a day, around the clock. During this time, I couldn't hold my son due to both the presence of the double pump and lack of trust that my right arm wouldn't give out. In between pumps, I fed him via bottle while attempting to clean my pump parts and maybe get in twenty minutes or so of eating/sleeping/shower before my alarm went off to start again. I was slowly having to start supplementing when the fenugreek/increase in water/everything shy of medication couldn't increase my supply to the amount he needed. At the month mark, we switched to formula because I developed PND and was emotionally and physically beyond exhausted. I missed my son, and he needed his mother. For us, switching was the best choice I could have made for everyone involved.

this....

people assume, just pump then... not caring to your life... i could no way pump every two hours like i was told to, i was back and forth to a hospital 4 times a day, waiting half an hour for the bus each way 20 min bus ride, i had no outside help or support to get me back and forth so i could make time for pumping. when baby came home inbetween feeding her, cleaning house, eating myself, sleeping, washing baby and washing clothes and sending time with her i could not spend every two hours pumping.... some people are not lucky enough to have support to help them with the baby while they pump. to take some of the load of so they can do what they need to do....

some people are just happy to have a baby to love and look after and thats enough for them, breast feeding does not make you a better parent then someone who does not.

i do not feel bad i dont breast feed, i never will, i have had to do whats best for me and my child ad thats better for us then me stressing over something that would be able to sense when i have a second option in front of me...

I couldn't even BEGIN to imagine having to do it all without the help of someone else OH helped me as best he could, but it was still incredibly overwhelming for all of us as there were many things he COULDN'T do to help. It killed him as well to see me suffering both emotionally and physically. Even with the joy of our new baby boy, it was a very difficult time for all three of us.

thats why it annoys me so much when people talk about someone not breast feeding like we dont care, cant be bothered, and so on, even worse the people assuming there is always a way.... i would love to live their life then as i know for so many its not so simple and people should not be made to feel bad on how they choose to fed their baby, who cares, as long as the baby is looked after, god the amount of child abuse in this world there are much worse things you can do then make the choice to FF.... i guess i would love the kind of life where all i had to worry and moan about is what someone else is choosing to feed their child.

(sorry u had it so rough hun xx)

 

[NellyLou]

Yes and it can take a year to establish supply, it's practically a full time job, and it's bloody hard work. You can't say that wouldn't put some people off. And what about men who want to adopt? You're also forgetting that the majority of babies are not adopted at birth, but at a few weeks or even a few months old, and therefore would likely have been fed donor milk beforehand if they were in foster care or an orphanage. A baby used to bottle feeding is almost impossible to breastfeed without a lot of heartache. And yes, adoptive mothers could express milk, but exclusively expressing is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I agree with you Emy. Due to nerve damage in my right nipple as a result surgery years ago, every time LO latched on it would send a constant shooting pain through my shoulder and down into my arm. I was in tears, and dreaded the thought of the next feeding time After a week I decided to exclusively express, as I (naively) thought that it would be a good solution and allow me to enjoy my time with my son more. Unfortunately the reality was that, in order to have ANY chance at establishing a good supply, I was instructed to develope a routine of pumping for 25 minutes at a time (due to the pain, I had to pump on the lowest setting which took FOREVER), and repeat every two hours. Twelve times a day, around the clock. During this time, I couldn't hold my son due to both the presence of the double pump and lack of trust that my right arm wouldn't give out. In between pumps, I fed him via bottle while attempting to clean my pump parts and maybe get in twenty minutes or so of eating/sleeping/shower before my alarm went off to start again. I was slowly having to start supplementing when the fenugreek/increase in water/everything shy of medication couldn't increase my supply to the amount he needed. At the month mark, we switched to formula because I developed PND and was emotionally and physically beyond exhausted. I missed my son, and he needed his mother. For us, switching was the best choice I could have made for everyone involved.

this....

people assume, just pump then... not caring to your life... i could no way pump every two hours like i was told to, i was back and forth to a hospital 4 times a day, waiting half an hour for the bus each way 20 min bus ride, i had no outside help or support to get me back and forth so i could make time for pumping. when baby came home inbetween feeding her, cleaning house, eating myself, sleeping, washing baby and washing clothes and sending time with her i could not spend every two hours pumping.... some people are not lucky enough to have support to help them with the baby while they pump. to take some of the load of so they can do what they need to do....

some people are just happy to have a baby to love and look after and thats enough for them, breast feeding does not make you a better parent then someone who does not.

i do not feel bad i dont breast feed, i never will, i have had to do whats best for me and my child ad thats better for us then me stressing over something that would be able to sense when i have a second option in front of me...

I couldn't even BEGIN to imagine having to do it all without the help of someone else OH helped me as best he could, but it was still incredibly overwhelming for all of us as there were many things he COULDN'T do to help. It killed him as well to see me suffering both emotionally and physically. Even with the joy of our new baby boy, it was a very difficult time for all three of us.

thats why it annoys me so much when people talk about someone not breast feeding like we dont care, cant be bothered, and so on, even worse the people assuming there is always a way.... i would love to live their life then as i know for so many its not so simple and people should not be made to feel bad on how they choose to fed their baby, who cares, as long as the baby is looked after, god the amount of child abuse in this world there are much worse things you can do then make the choice to FF.... i guess i would love the kind of life where all i had to worry and moan about is what someone else is choosing to feed their child.

(sorry u had it so rough hun xx)

I couldn't agree with both of you more!

 

[Jess137]

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread before, but I'm bipolar and I don't have a choice about having to take meds for it. I am taking them through pregnancy as they have been shown not to cause birth defects. I plan on BF'ing if at all possible, but there is the chance that Emily will have side effects from my medications through my milk. If that is the case, I will have to go to formula. That is not an option I want to take, but there is no way I could afford donor milk

 

[Scottish mum]

I think this is a silly question I don't breast feed but its common sense you would need to either breast feed or do something else! X

 

[fides]

i can see that this is an old thread that has been brought back up, but i just have to thank Eala for stating the below b/c i keep seeing that same statistic in other areas of bnb and it drives me crazy...

As for the 1% statistic... I've yet to see a truly rigorous scientific study which verifies this figure. And as far as I understand it, that's "1%" can't produce anything. It doesn't include those who have supply issues which would preclude them from being able to solely breastfeed without supplementing. Also, bandying about that figure is remarkably misleading. To put this into perspective a bit - 0.0085% of women in England will be diagnosed with cervical cancer. Yet you don't see anyone saying "Oh well, it's such a small number that it's not really worth talking about..."

well said!!

okay - going back to other areas of bnb now...

 

[gryphongrl]

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread before, but I'm bipolar and I don't have a choice about having to take meds for it. I am taking them through pregnancy as they have been shown not to cause birth defects. I plan on BF'ing if at all possible, but there is the chance that Emily will have side effects from my medications through my milk. If that is the case, I will have to go to formula. That is not an option I want to take, but there is no way I could afford donor milk

Check out MilkShare... its a mom-to-mom connection tool, lots of women on there with lots of milk to share and the milk is all free.

 

[overcomer79]

I dont see how a mum can choose to give their baby formula without even trying Breastfeeding first though?
Everyone knows its best and has numerous benefits for both child and mother...if you want the best for your baby then why wouldn't you at least try to provide them with all these benefits?

I appear to be the only breastfeeder here.
It's funny how people are allowed to put people for for doing something as simple as feeding in public yet as soon as someone says anything negative about formula it's the end of the world.

Another point I've been thinking about...what would all the formula feeding mums do in the case of a major natural disaster?
I think Breastfeeding is safer all around. Less sickness, better immunity and a source of nutrition no matter what.
I'm also a big 'Eco warrior' and prefer Breastfeeding as it doesn't require fuel burning factories and transit to reach us.

As I have said before I feel like I'm been made out to be the bad one here but to be honest that doesn't really bother me anymore. All I ever see on bnb is Breastfeeding mums made out this way by others. Jealousy is a nasty thing...I'm SO proud to BF my daughter and feel very strongly about spreading the word. Breastfeeding is a dying talent and it scares me that my daughter will grow up in a world where it is becoming more and more rare

This is the attitude that turns people in my area off of breast feeding...how do you get to dictate what another woman does? I work. I work with harsh chemicals, should I risk pumping those chemicals into my child's milk so you have respect for me? I could care less what you think of me tbh. You said you have no respect for anyone who doesn't try. Well my mom didn't try and I think she deserves all the respect in the world. I wouldn't trust donor milk tbh. I had a friend texted me the other night saying she was going to buy a pump and sell her milk. It'd be a lot more work to keep up with her diet and her meds then just to go buy my daughter a can of formula. My daughter my choice and I certainly don't need your approval.

 

[pinklightbulb]

Only you can turn yourself off breastfeeding. You're in charge of your own body. A pro-BFer didn't switch off your milk supply, you chose not to use it. I don't understand that argument.

 

[Scottish mum]

I personaly think this debate is pointless! Why do we have to anaylise ff and bf all the time for god sake of course we would do what ever we could to feed our babies! I formula feed but if it didn't exsist well I would look for other options is that not just common sense!! Ok I can't breast feed but there are women in third world countries that can't breast feed and feed there babies solids from an early age! What I think this post was trying to do was stir up things for thoes who formula feed!!!!

 

[overcomer79]

Only you can turn yourself off breastfeeding. You're in charge of your own body. A pro-BFer didn't switch off your milk supply, you chose not to use it. I don't understand that argument.

I personally don't care if you understand my argument or not!! I'm so sick of the "I'm better than thou" attitude that I get from a lot of breastfeeding moms!

Putting pressure on people to breastfeed doesn't enable a person to do it when you make them constantly feel like a failure. I'm happy with my decision to ff.