What If There Was No Formula?

[Tasha]

So there you go... Someone can go their entire life without knowing what boobs are for and still breastfeed. There is no need to rip bottles out of their dolls' hands because it has absolutely no influence on their decisions as adults.

I would imagine that is the exception rather than the rule. It isnt that the doll will influence their decisions but rather that it is seen from a very early age that bottle feeding is the 'norm'.

My girls are four and seven, and they have never pretended to make up a bottle, never saw any of the children I looked after in nursey do it either.

I personally dont take the bottle away, they do pretend BF and pretend bottle-feed their dolls.

 

[Serenity_Now]

I didn't read all the responses so please forgive me but...

I was thinking this very thing, especially while watching one of my favorite TV shows, Walking Dead.

Spoiler

There is a character who is pregnant during the zombie apocalypse. That character dies giving birth. I kept shouting, "HOW IS THAT BABY GOING TO SURVIVE WITHOUT BEING BREASTFED!?!" while my husband gave me odd looks. Something I probably would not have batted an eyelash at years ago.

 

[NellyLou]

I haven't read the whole thread either so I am sure I am probably just repeating someone.... But that is why wetnurses existed. Even now, some mothers choose to use donated breastmilk rather than formula.

 

[Liesje]

I haven't read the whole thread either so I am sure I am probably just repeating someone.... But that is why wetnurses existed. Even now, some mothers choose to use donated breastmilk rather than formula.

I'm in Ontario too and I looked into donated breastmilk. I was basically told that donated milk is only given to premature babies or those with compromised immune systems because there is such a shortage.

 

[midori1999]

So there you go... Someone can go their entire life without knowing what boobs are for and still breastfeed. There is no need to rip bottles out of their dolls' hands because it has absolutely no influence on their decisions as adults.

I would imagine that is the exception rather than the rule. It isnt that the doll will influence their decisions but rather that it is seen from a very early age that bottle feeding is the 'norm'.
My girls are four and seven, and they have never pretended to make up a bottle, never saw any of the children I looked after in nursey do it either.

I personally dont take the bottle away, they do pretend BF and pretend bottle-feed their dolls.

You're right, it's exactly about that. How many young girls/teens think breastfeeding is embarrassing/icky/boobs are for sex. As a society we are conditioned to think breasts = sex and it's important to redress the balance.

Some of my local nursery schools are becoming 'BF friendly' and they carry story books with pictures of babies being breastfed in them, amongst other things.

I haven't read the whole thread either so I am sure I am probably just repeating someone.... But that is why wetnurses existed. Even now, some mothers choose to use donated breastmilk rather than formula.

I'm in Ontario too and I looked into donated breastmilk. I was basically told that donated milk is only given to premature babies or those with compromised immune systems because there is such a shortage.

It's possible to get donated milk by 'informal' milk sharing (eg. not through a milk bank) this happens worldwide.

 

[Liesje]

So there you go... Someone can go their entire life without knowing what boobs are for and still breastfeed. There is no need to rip bottles out of their dolls' hands because it has absolutely no influence on their decisions as adults.

I would imagine that is the exception rather than the rule. It isnt that the doll will influence their decisions but rather that it is seen from a very early age that bottle feeding is the 'norm'.
My girls are four and seven, and they have never pretended to make up a bottle, never saw any of the children I looked after in nursey do it either.

I personally dont take the bottle away, they do pretend BF and pretend bottle-feed their dolls.

You're right, it's exactly about that. How many young girls/teens think breastfeeding is embarrassing/icky/boobs are for sex. As a society we are conditioned to think breasts = sex and it's important to redress the balance.

Some of my local nursery schools are becoming 'BF friendly' and they carry story books with pictures of babies being breastfed in them, amongst other things.

I haven't read the whole thread either so I am sure I am probably just repeating someone.... But that is why wetnurses existed. Even now, some mothers choose to use donated breastmilk rather than formula.

I'm in Ontario too and I looked into donated breastmilk. I was basically told that donated milk is only given to premature babies or those with compromised immune systems because there is such a shortage.

It's possible to get donated milk by 'informal' milk sharing (eg. not through a milk bank) this happens worldwide.

In other areas I'm sure it is, but I'm in the immediate vacinity of 'Sick Kids' so I was told not to bother looking because all of it is going there and if I took some, I'd be depriving the world's most deserving babies, especially since I did produce some milk, just not enough.

 

[NellyLou]

So there you go... Someone can go their entire life without knowing what boobs are for and still breastfeed. There is no need to rip bottles out of their dolls' hands because it has absolutely no influence on their decisions as adults.

I would imagine that is the exception rather than the rule. It isnt that the doll will influence their decisions but rather that it is seen from a very early age that bottle feeding is the 'norm'.
My girls are four and seven, and they have never pretended to make up a bottle, never saw any of the children I looked after in nursey do it either.

I personally dont take the bottle away, they do pretend BF and pretend bottle-feed their dolls.

You're right, it's exactly about that. How many young girls/teens think breastfeeding is embarrassing/icky/boobs are for sex. As a society we are conditioned to think breasts = sex and it's important to redress the balance.

Some of my local nursery schools are becoming 'BF friendly' and they carry story books with pictures of babies being breastfed in them, amongst other things.

I haven't read the whole thread either so I am sure I am probably just repeating someone.... But that is why wetnurses existed. Even now, some mothers choose to use donated breastmilk rather than formula.

I'm in Ontario too and I looked into donated breastmilk. I was basically told that donated milk is only given to premature babies or those with compromised immune systems because there is such a shortage.

It's possible to get donated milk by 'informal' milk sharing (eg. not through a milk bank) this happens worldwide.

In other areas I'm sure it is, but I'm in the immediate vacinity of 'Sick Kids' so I was told not to bother looking because all of it is going there and if I took some, I'd be depriving the world's most deserving babies, especially since I did produce some milk, just not enough.

I know of a few moms here in Ottawa who had perfectly healthy babies and received donated breastmilk through informal sharing. I am guessing if you go through a formal process it would be more difficult as it would most likely be reserved for premature babies etc.

 

[Liesje]

In Ottawa it would probably be easier. Here in Toronto anyone who donates gives it to Sick Kids Hospital.

 

[alaskagrown]

Maybe you could look for milk in neighboring cities? I've shipped 200 lbs. of breastmilk on the plane to a baby overseas on the mainland just recently.

I will admit it is very difficult finding a donor though. On Human Milk 4 Human Babies (informal milk sharing site) there's about 15 people looking for milk for every 1 person who has milk to give!! I posted an ad because I had a deep freezer full of milk and was jumped by TONS of people, even people living waaay down in the lower 48!

 

[KiwiMOM]

I didn't read all the responses so please forgive me but...

I was thinking this very thing, especially while watching one of my favorite TV shows, Walking Dead.

Spoiler

There is a character who is pregnant during the zombie apocalypse. That character dies giving birth. I kept shouting, "HOW IS THAT BABY GOING TO SURVIVE WITHOUT BEING BREASTFED!?!" while my husband gave me odd looks. Something I probably would not have batted an eyelash at years ago.

OMG I thought the same thing! What if this new baby had become immune to the zombie virus through Lori's immunities.. I was thinking that community that Andrea found is all fine and dandy, until someone falls off a ladder and dies in their house, then they're all screwed!

 

[Serenity_Now]

I didn't read all the responses so please forgive me but...

I was thinking this very thing, especially while watching one of my favorite TV shows, Walking Dead.

Spoiler

There is a character who is pregnant during the zombie apocalypse. That character dies giving birth. I kept shouting, "HOW IS THAT BABY GOING TO SURVIVE WITHOUT BEING BREASTFED!?!" while my husband gave me odd looks. Something I probably would not have batted an eyelash at years ago.

OMG I thought the same thing! What if this new baby had become immune to the zombie virus through Lori's immunities.. I was thinking that community that Andrea found is all fine and dandy, until someone falls off a ladder and dies in their house, then they're all screwed!

Spoiler

Oh exactly, lol. I haven't read the comics so I'm just guessing, but I have a feeling the baby is immune and is going to be a wonder-baby. But then, one of those people in the community is pregnant too! So maybe all the babies will be immune?

I was only sorry for the baby that Lori died honestly -- I wasn't terribly fond of her character. However, I was grieving for poor T-Dawg! I just don't get how they're going to take care of a newborn while in a prison surrounded by zombies. It's hard enough for me in my comfy living room. Not to mention probably sending Glenn out to find baby formula. And watch him come back with the wrong kind or something.

 

[KiwiMOM]

^^^ or the baby ends up having some horrible food allergies and needs special formula.. As long as they never take the baby out of the prison they should be just peachy! What an added complication to the show! Though me and my OH called the birth during a zombie surge thing when we first found out she was coming. I was excited that Lori was on her feet giving birth (active birth FTW!) Sends a bad message to people attempting a VBAC though doesn't it?

 

[Serenity_Now]

^^^ or the baby ends up having some horrible food allergies and needs special formula.. As long as they never take the baby out of the prison they should be just peachy! What an added complication to the show! Though me and my OH called the birth during a zombie surge thing when we first found out she was coming. I was excited that Lori was on her feet giving birth (active birth FTW!) Sends a bad message to people attempting a VBAC though doesn't it?

Oh yes I know. And what was with the blood? Figured that was just an exaggeration of the bloody show. And it sure didn't seem like she was in labor very long.

I have other nit-picks about the show too though. How come the girls don't have hairy legs and pits? How do they shave every day? Seriously, it's the apocalypse. "Excuse me zombie... my legs REALLY need some TLC right now." And even the guys -- yeah they look grizzled, but would your man really find the time to keep only as much as a 5 o'clock shadow while being chased by man-eating undead?

And Lori and Rick, for gosh-sakes, keep an EYE on your CHILD. Carl is always getting into a bad situation! Lori has an excuse now... okay. But seriously... three seasons of... "CARL WHERE ARE YOU!?"

 

[KiwiMOM]

^^^ or the baby ends up having some horrible food allergies and needs special formula.. As long as they never take the baby out of the prison they should be just peachy! What an added complication to the show! Though me and my OH called the birth during a zombie surge thing when we first found out she was coming. I was excited that Lori was on her feet giving birth (active birth FTW!) Sends a bad message to people attempting a VBAC though doesn't it?

Oh yes I know. And what was with the blood? Figured that was just an exaggeration of the bloody show. And it sure didn't seem like she was in labor very long.

I have other nit-picks about the show too though. How come the girls don't have hairy legs and pits? How do they shave every day? Seriously, it's the apocalypse. "Excuse me zombie... my legs REALLY need some TLC right now." And even the guys -- yeah they look grizzled, but would your man really find the time to keep only as much as a 5 o'clock shadow while being chased by man-eating undead?

And Lori and Rick, for gosh-sakes, keep an EYE on your CHILD. Carl is always getting into a bad situation! Lori has an excuse now... okay. But seriously... three seasons of... "CARL WHERE ARE YOU!?"

haha, she only had about 3 contractions, no wonder she wasn't getting anywhere with pushing! Yes, and their overly white teeth/hairlessness yet they're covered in blood and guts half the time.. I don't think I'd survive long in the same situations! That show used to give me nightmares but I can't stop watching. And I love poking fun at parenting choices in TV shows with my OH now, things I'd never have noticed a year ago

 

[Jaylynne]

Anyone else think throwing away the bottle that comes with a doll is kind of childish? I mean really. It's just another way of feeding. It's not wrong. If you bf and your older child sees that, they will most likely mimic what you do anyway. I grew up in a family that breastfeeds. I played with dolls. No big deal. Throwing the bottle away implies that there's something wrong with doing it.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I'd find a doll without a bottle.

 

[KiwiMOM]

But there is something "wrong" with it! It's not "normal" (using quotations because I'm not sure how to word this differently, and I don't mean to offend). In our past we would grow up seeing breastfeeding and that would help us when it came time to breastfeed our own children. We wouldn't be ashamed of NIP and our mothers/aunties/grandmothers would ALL have experience and be able to help with problems. Today's world is not like that and bottle feeding IS normalised, to the point of dolls being sold with bottles, and bottles being an "icon" people associate with babies and I'll throw away those bottles if it helps normalise BFing in my children's eyes.

 

[socitycourty]

I had baby dolls with bottles and also barbies with them and yet still wanted to BF my LO very badly.....

 

[Eternal]

But there is something "wrong" with it! It's not "normal" (using quotations because I'm not sure how to word this differently, and I don't mean to offend). In our past we would grow up seeing breastfeeding and that would help us when it came time to breastfeed our own children. We wouldn't be ashamed of NIP and our mothers/aunties/grandmothers would ALL have experience and be able to help with problems. Today's world is not like that and bottle feeding IS normalised, to the point of dolls being sold with bottles, and bottles being an "icon" people associate with babies and I'll throw away those bottles if it helps normalise BFing in my children's eyes.

It's lovely that you have had a very normal and natural experience with your daughter and were able to breastfed. Its not like that for all of us, all my children would have died if I had had them at home, and two of my children were not able breastfed, one due to pyloric stenosis and the other couldn't latch which was due to tongue tie.

You can sit the and judge me as much as you like for being so wrong in your eyes, but I have three alive, healthy happy children because I did the wrong unnatural thing, however gave birth to my babies and however I chose to feed them it was and felt natural and right. Ok the twins section maybe didn't feel natural but the alternative defiantly made it feel right.

I don't get the hang up people have and why people are so quick to judge those of us who parent differently, we know the facts about breast milk and all of my children have has breast milk, just one had it for any period from breast, one never latched, and the other just hate it and prefers bottles, it's fantastic when you get a baby who wants to breastfed, but I only experienced that with one of mine.

I could carry on and list reasons why breast feeding wasn't right for all my kids, but i won't waste my wrong and unnatural breath.

 

[Tiff]

But there is something "wrong" with it! It's not "normal" (using quotations because I'm not sure how to word this differently, and I don't mean to offend). In our past we would grow up seeing breastfeeding and that would help us when it came time to breastfeed our own children. We wouldn't be ashamed of NIP and our mothers/aunties/grandmothers would ALL have experience and be able to help with problems. Today's world is not like that and bottle feeding IS normalised, to the point of dolls being sold with bottles, and bottles being an "icon" people associate with babies and I'll throw away those bottles if it helps normalise BFing in my children's eyes.

Interesting point!

It is what it is. I don't think there's anything wrong with bottle feeding either... there's lots of mothers out there who bottle feed their LOs breastmilk. That's not "wrong" either, and it may be "unnatural" but it works and the LO is fed, happy and healthy. I don't see anything wrong with that.

In fact, most of what we do is unnatural really when you think about it. Humans as a species wasn't meant to fly, yet there are millions of people in planes every day. That doesn't make it wrong or unnatural for them to prefer to travel by plane... it just means that for them its a better solution rather than walking or running to their destination.

I guess I view bottles in the same way. It might not have been what nature intended, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.