What's your thoughts on people with Downs getting pregnant?

[Celesse]

Lots of people with learning disabilities have children every day. Downs Syndrome is just one of many learning disabilities, but as it has physical characteristics its more obvious. Some people with LD's are pretty high functioning, some are low functioning. Where would you draw that line that says person A is ok to have children, but person B is not?

Some people will be capable to parent a child pretty independantly, others will need a lot of services. Others will manage when the child is younger but won't when the child gets older. Having children is a basic human right and to say that one group of people is not allowed to have children goes against this. Perhaps if a couple has tried to parent children and has not been sucessful then they should be helped to understand why long term contraception would be a better option. They need to have good advocacy to help them make decisions for themselves and helped to understand the full implications of the choices they make. But they are still adults and are still allowed to make thier own decisions.

If you take away the right of one group of people then it opens up the possibility for other groups of people to have thier rights removed. If people with Downs Syndrome aren't allowed to have children, then what about people with other learning disabilities? What about people with physcial disabilities? People without much money? People who already have 2 children? Gay people? People who's skin colour doesn't match the "norm" for that country? Ginger people? Geordies? In the free western societies the rights to have children cannot be taken away from any group without having implications for the freedom of many other groups of people.

 

[midori1999]

As the Mother of son with Downs Syndrome I get highly offended by people spouting such drivel, especially when they have just 'watched a programme' and apparently not bother to find out the full facts. How on earth did you think suggesting a whole group of society shouldn't be allowed to have children wouldn't offend anyone? Who decides if they are allowed? You? Their parents? The government?

For a start, lots of people with Downs Syndrome are infertile, they would never be able to have children even if they did want to. Secondly, if a couple who both have Downs Syndrome want a baby, it is not guaramteed that that baby will have Downs Syndrome at all. For a start, there are three genetic types of Downs Syndrome with different methods of inheritance.

Some people with Downs will be much higher functioning than some people who don't have Downs. Downs is a genetic condition and all people with Downs have that in common, but that does not mean they are all the same or should all be 'lumped' into the same category. Some people with Downs are very successful in all different fields and even run their own businesses. They can be valued members of society, just like everyone else can.

People with disabilities (of all sorts) are not some lesser members of society. They may be different, but they are not 'worse' or 'worse off' than any of the rest of us. Our society is what can make it difficult for them to live, not their disability. For example, can deaf people not enjoy West End productions because they are deaf or because no-one bothers to put them on in sign language?

Years ago I expect people also though wheelchair users or people with limbs missing or the deaf or blind shouldn't have children because they wouldn't be able to look after them. Luckily, we have managed to move on a little as a society and people now realise that is not the case at all.

 

[Sevendy]

As the Mother of son with Downs Syndrome I get highly offended by people spouting such drivel, especially when they have just 'watched a programme' and apparently not bother to find out the full facts. How on earth did you think suggesting a whole group of society shouldn't be allowed to have children wouldn't offend anyone? Who decides if they are allowed? You? Their parents? The government?

For a start, lots of people with Downs Syndrome are infertile, they would never be able to have children even if they did want to. Secondly, if a couple who both have Downs Syndrome want a baby, it is not guaramteed that that baby will have Downs Syndrome at all. For a start, there are three genetic types of Downs Syndrome with different methods of inheritance.

Some people with Downs will be much higher functioning than some people who don't have Downs. Downs is a genetic condition and all people with Downs have that in common, but that does not mean they are all the same or should all be 'lumped' into the same category. Some people with Downs are very successful in all different fields and even run their own businesses. They can be valued members of society, just like everyone else can.

People with disabilities (of all sorts) are not some lesser members of society. They may be different, but they are not 'worse' or 'worse off' than any of the rest of us. Our society is what can make it difficult for them to live, not their disability. For example, can deaf people not enjoy West End productions because they are deaf or because no-one bothers to put them on in sign language?

Years ago I expect people also though wheelchair users or people with limbs missing or the deaf or blind shouldn't have children because they wouldn't be able to look after them. Luckily, we have managed to move on a little as a society and people now realise that is not the case at all.

I was going to state the same thing about the genetics. There would be a 50/50 chance that the mother would have a baby with Downs. It is very rare if a male with Downs were able to concieve.

I honestly don't think it matters. I agree with everything you said. Who are we to say who can and can't have a child because of their "mental status" How do we know what they are thinking and what they will or will not be capable of? There are different severities of Downs.

My little sister has Downs and hers is a little more severe case so she will never have children, prob never get married either.....but we still love her the same.

 

[abc123x]

I saw a programme where the mother of the girl with downs syndrome was trying to get the right to sterilise her daughter because the girl had severe downs and already had 2 children but the mother (grandmother) had to care for her daughter with downs and her daughters 2 children. The girl with downs had to rely on her mum to wash, feed, change her and she had no speech and little understanding.
So her mother had to care for her children aswell as her

I dont think in this case it is fair on the mother that her daughter with downs keeps getting pregnant, not that it is her fault..its sad
I dont think people with downs should be treated any different but in terms of having children i think it depends on the severity
xxxx

Was this a true story? I know that is not how it is here in the US. My OH has a family member who is disabled. Not severely, but she'll never be mentally past a 12 year old. Her parents have papers saying that they are still her guardian, despite her being 22 because she isn't capable of caring for herself. Of course she thinks that she can. So, if they wanted to, they could have her sterilized because she is not competent to make her own medical decisions, they have the right to do it for her. They would never do this, I'm sure.

It also sounds suspicious that this girl kept getting pregnant if she had very limited speech and understanding. She clearly lived at home with her mother and if her understanding was that little, this would be considered rape most places?

 

[twinkle93]

Yes it was interview with the mother explaining herself about why she wanted her daughter sterilised because she was exhausted and the children were being taken into care which was heartbreaking for the whole family.

I think people saying people with downs syndrome shouldnt be allowed children because the child could have downs syndrome is rather offensive. I worked with a child with severe learning difficulties and dont think anybody should be told they cannot have a child, but I think the persons carer should have a say in how the child would be looked after.
xxxx

 

[twinkle93]

And about her clearly living at home, this definitly crossed my mind when watching it. I wondered how the girl could actually get pregnant if her mum had to do everything for her. She did however say that she didnt think her daughter should be capable of consenting to intercourse because she didnt understand. Its a very sad story, should someone else have the right to sterilize you, i dont think so.
I dont want to offend anyone I was just saying about that case and understanding her mums decision, it must be hard
xxxx

 

[BexyD]

Its not something i have a problem with IF they are able to care for their child themselves. But that is my opinion on everyone who has a child. I guess that someone with a disability will have a better understanding of the needs of their child who has the same disability.

I bought a load of those rubbish mags with the real life stories in for my hosp bag and couldnt help but read one the other night. There was a story in there of a deaf couple who had two daughters who could hear and they had adapted and managed perfectly well.

Also on the adoption side of things, its an incrediably long and difficult process for the most 'normal' well off couples to get through nevermind someone who has special needs from the word go. Im not sure it would be very easy at all. Which in my opinion is stupid as there are so many children out there that need the love more than 'things' etc

 

[BexyD]

And about her clearly living at home, this definitly crossed my mind when watching it. I wondered how the girl could actually get pregnant if her mum had to do everything for her. She did however say that she didnt think her daughter should be capable of consenting to intercourse because she didnt understand. Its a very sad story, should someone else have the right to sterilize you, i dont think so.
I dont want to offend anyone I was just saying about that case and understanding her mums decision, it must be hard
xxxx

my daughter has special needs and my biggest fear is that she will get pregnant. Even if she consents to sex im not sure she would ever understand the consequences. I would rather her be sterilized as im not sure she will ever be completely independent and able to look after herself nevermind another humanbeing

 

[theresarhuebb]

i know a little girl with downs and shes most normal kid other than the way she looks has learnt everything a child with no needs can do at same time. i also know a man with downs who manages a leisure centre perfectly normal too. i think if there perfectly capable of looking after them self that why cant they have kids. if dwarfs can have kids and others with disabilities then why not x

 

[tiggerpony]

I wish I hadn't started this thread now...people have got the wrong end of the stick. In the first post I stated "I don't think they should be allowed to get pregnant" - MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE WHO HAD DOWN SYNDROME ON THE PROGRAMME. Yes I pointed out the baby would probabley have down syndrome but the main reason I don't think they (MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE ON THE TV PROGRAMME, NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH DS!!!) shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant was because both seemed to have severe learning problems and the female stated, when asked WHY she wanted a baby "dunno, cos my bf does" !!!! Please can some people stop thinking I am some awful nasty person who hate people with disabilities! I am very sorry if I have offended anyone BUT AS SAID IN OTHER POSTS if people wish to bring a baby into this world knowing they have "problems" then I wish them all the best and respect that. Would I bring a child into this world if I didn't think I could look after them?? NO - but that is my choice.

Sorry if I sound RAR but it is really upsetting me I am getting the impression some people think I was being down right nasty, when I wasn't.

 

[Mummytofour]

My friends daughter has mosaic downs and is top of her class at a mainstream school. She would also make a fabulous mummy IMO as she is so caring and attentive aswell as intelligent. There are alot of people that are genetically normal that I know that should never be parents, so go figure!

I am completely pro gay adoption too btw as I consider that the only pre requisite for adoption is two loving parents regardless of social status or perceived mental capacity.

 

[theresarhuebb]

oh my i dont think you were being nasty or anything of the sort, i agree if there disabilty is severe enough between the two surely bringing another into the world who has a good chance of beeing really poorly then no i dont think they should be allowed, x

 

[BexyD]

I wish I hadn't started this thread now...people have got the wrong end of the stick. In the first post I stated "I don't think they should be allowed to get pregnant" - MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE WHO HAD DOWN SYNDROME ON THE PROGRAMME. Yes I pointed out the baby would probabley have down syndrome but the main reason I don't think they (MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE ON THE TV PROGRAMME, NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH DS!!!) shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant was because both seemed to have severe learning problems and the female stated, when asked WHY she wanted a baby "dunno, cos my bf does" !!!! Please can some people stop thinking I am some awful nasty person who hate people with disabilities! I am very sorry if I have offended anyone BUT AS SAID IN OTHER POSTS if people wish to bring a baby into this world knowing they have "problems" then I wish them all the best and respect that. Would I bring a child into this world if I didn't think I could look after them?? NO - but that is my choice.

Sorry if I sound RAR but it is really upsetting me I am getting the impression some people think I was being down right nasty, when I wasn't.

to be fair, it was always going to be a highly emotive ad controversial subject !!

Like I said, my opinion is each to their own so long as they can care for their child - i didnt see this program but if the female's response to having a baby was as you said, the no, I probably wouldnt have thought she was mature enough to have a child regardless of disability

 

[purapura]

I think that if the couple can sustain themselves and the chaild (I know that some can work) and they can phisicly and mentally taking care of the child, then I see no reason why not. But I think it's right for any couple...

 

[jstarr]

I don't think they 'shouldnt be allowed' no one has the right to say that if they live alone, have a relationship and support areound them the could be great parents, i bet there are alot more 'normal' people who are bad parents

 

[countryrider]

I don't have much knowledge in Downs Syndrom...so I won't even comment on that in particular. What I will say is that, I don't agree with classifying a certain "group" of people that shouldn't have the right to have kids. Every person/couple should make an honest and educated decision on whether or not to have kids from their own situation (no matter what situation it may be) EVERYONE needs to take in account health risks, living situations, financial situation, etc. etc.

To say one particular "group" of people shouldn't have kids is rediculous. As every person is an individual.

 

[CandyApple19]

i think that people are obviously entitled to make that choice, but it should be discouraged majorly if they haven't got a clue what they are getting themselves into.

 

[Palestrina]

I wish I hadn't started this thread now...people have got the wrong end of the stick. In the first post I stated "I don't think they should be allowed to get pregnant" - MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE WHO HAD DOWN SYNDROME ON THE PROGRAMME. Yes I pointed out the baby would probabley have down syndrome but the main reason I don't think they (MEANING THE TWO PEOPLE ON THE TV PROGRAMME, NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH DS!!!) shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant was because both seemed to have severe learning problems and the female stated, when asked WHY she wanted a baby "dunno, cos my bf does" !!!! Please can some people stop thinking I am some awful nasty person who hate people with disabilities! I am very sorry if I have offended anyone BUT AS SAID IN OTHER POSTS if people wish to bring a baby into this world knowing they have "problems" then I wish them all the best and respect that. Would I bring a child into this world if I didn't think I could look after them?? NO - but that is my choice.

Sorry if I sound RAR but it is really upsetting me I am getting the impression some people think I was being down right nasty, when I wasn't.

In all fairness to us how can you pose a question about a program that only you yourself watched? I didn't watch it. When you said "they" how am I supposed to know that you are only referring to the couple you saw on tv? That's not quite fair to start a thread about a controversial topic and then close it off to only those who watched the program. That wasn't made clear in your original post. I think you're too concerned about whether or not we see you as a good person or not which is really nothing to be concerned about as we do not know you and could not possibly pass that kind of judgement off one thread. Nobody is judging you, we're just debating a subject and you shouldn't take this so personally. Don't make this about you and your feelings.

 

[Tanikit]

According to wikipedia:

"There is infertility among both males and females with Down syndrome; males are usually unable to father children, while females demonstrate significantly lower rates of conception relative to unaffected individuals.[citation needed] Women with DS are less fertile and often have difficulties with miscarriage, premature birth, and difficult labor. Without preimplantation genetic diagnosis, approximately half of the offspring of someone with Down syndrome also have the syndrome themselves.[27] Men with DS are almost uniformly infertile, exhibiting defects in spermatogenesis.[28] There have been only three recorded instances of males with Down syndrome fathering children."

There is also a legal aspect as I am not sure people with Down's are allowed to sign certain forms as you have to be mentally able to understand and be responsible for what you are signing which also makes consenting to hospital procedures a problem - I am not sure how this would go down in a real world situation - how do you prove whether someone is mentally capable? And can someone who is not consent to sex or is this like statutory rape (obvioulsy this couldn't work if both had Down's) I have no clue how the legal aspects would influence things.

Nonetheless if they choose to, no one can stop them. And then its not really our business anymore.

 

[sequeena]

It's none of my business to decide who gets to have a child but aren't we lucky we are normal 'enough' to have one eh?