Why do people think the country owes them something? [Bit of a rant about councils!]

[toffee87]

Ooooh, this is a very controversial topic. I hear people (mostly students) say that they are just gonna claim job seekers rather than get a weekend job, although I'm not sure if they can as students anyway.

I can see why people get angry,they have to work, and have to spend most of the earnings on childcare, so why shouldn't everyone else? But, I can also see people like dizzymoo do not abuse the system, they are doing what is best for their kids and their life at the time. It's likely that most of us have or will have to claim some sort of help at some point. I claimed Job seekers for about a month, in between Uni and my job because I needed to contribute to bills at home. I felt awful, like a slob etc, but at the end of the day I took the first job which I was offered, it was only part time at subway. On the one hand I got people saying well done, you're doing all you can, and then on the other I had people looking down on me "oh you've got a degree and you're working in SUBWAY".

People can't do anything right these days.

I'm now moving from my second subway job (full time) to being a carer. There are jobs out there, but you can't be picky,

 

[kit603]

I too have worked since I was 14, working several jobs at a time. I have paid my fair share of taxes and NI, probably a bigger share given my profession, so I'm not sure that's any kind of justification for making that choice and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.

The system is flawed, does that mean it is right to take advantage of that? To decide not to work and earn money because you are "slightly" better off financially? That's not really in the spirit of the system is it?

The MPs who made thousands of pounds of expenses claims by flipping homes and claiming for duck bridges made the same argument. "what we did was within the rules" It's safe to say that didn't go down well.

I've never said that it's right to decide not to work because i'll be slightly better off financially. In fact, I said that I will probably take a year off (in maternity leave, the last 3 months of which will be unpaid) and then i'll go straight back to working part-time. I was merely pointing out that our Government brings these problems upon itself by making it more profitable, in some circumstances, for a woman to not return to work after giving birth.

As for your statement that "I'm not sure that's any kind of justification for making that choice and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it." That may be your opinion but I still don't think its wrong for somebody who has paid their fair share into the system to take a little bit back out when they need it - that's basically what National Insurance Contributions were put there for. And I certainly don't expect other tax payers to fund it because over the 2 and a half months that I claimed housing benefit I probably claimed about £165 in housing benefit... Not outrageous at all considering that OH and I have (jointly) paid around £12,500 in NI contributions and £24,000 in Taxes since we started working.

Can I just ask what you all define as needing benifits and abusing them?

xx

In my opinion, it depends on an individual case but if I had to define it in general then i'd say that abusing the system means claiming benefits that you aren't actually entitled to. For example, claiming that your partner doesn't live with you so that you get certain benefits (e.g. 25% reduction on council tax bill, Income support etc)

However, I also think that women who deliberately get pregnant JUST so that they can claim benefits are abusing the system. For example, somebody that my mum works with openly admits that she has 5 children purely because she gets more tax credits when she has a child under 1 in the house and can claim benefits to which she wouldn't otherwise be entitled because on paper she's a single mum of 5. She has a council house with cheap rent and gets housing benefit and council tax benefit and even used to help with her gas/electricity bills! In reality, her partner lives at the same address as her and earns about £25,000 a year by himself but none of that is declared.

 

[Foogirl]

Can I just ask what you all define as needing benifits and abusing them?

Someone who "needs" benefits finds themselves in a situation (outwith their control) where they no longer can support themselves whether it be through illness or circumstance e.g redundancy

Someone who abuses benefits makes the conscious decision not to work and chooses to rely on benefits as their main means of support and have no intention of working.

I've never said that it's right to decide not to work because i'll be slightly better off financially. In fact, I said that I will probably take a year off (in maternity leave, the last 3 months of which will be unpaid) and then i'll go straight back to working part-time. I was merely pointing out that our Government brings these problems upon itself by making it more profitable, in some circumstances, for a woman to not return to work after giving birth.

Just as a previous poster said, I'm not attacking you personally over this - as you said you will return to work after your year off.

The problem is, many people DO decide not to work because they will be financially better off on benefits. I agree the government needs to change the system, but I also think that just because the system is flawed, doesn't automatically mean it is right that people take advantage of it when they are perfectly capable of going out and getting a job. As you pointed out in an earlier post, the profitability on benefits is short term for most people as they can work their way up to earn better and better wages over time, but many can't (or wont) accept that.

As for your statement that "I'm not sure that's any kind of justification for making that choice and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it." That may be your opinion but I still don't think its wrong for somebody who has paid their fair share into the system to take a little bit back out when they need it - that's basically what National Insurance Contributions were put there for. And I certainly don't expect other tax payers to fund it because over the 2 and a half months that I claimed housing benefit I probably claimed about £165 in housing benefit... Not outrageous at all considering that OH and I have (jointly) paid around £12,500 in NI contributions and £24,000 in Taxes since we started working.

I don't think it is wrong to look to get something back when you need it either. I just don't consider choosing to be a SAHM on government money when you are capable of working, saying it is best for the child etc, counts as a "need" I'd say that is a "want" And it is a choice that many women would love to have but their partners earn just too much to get any help, but not enough to make it affordable.

What really irks me about this is that the government will hand people in that siutation money to give to a complete stranger to look after their children but wont consider giving that money to the parents so they can best decide who should look after their children.

We've paid waaaaay more in taxes and NI since we started working, we're not likely to ever see any of that back in benefits - unless you count child benefit.

 

[nightkd]

As for your statement that "I'm not sure that's any kind of justification for making that choice and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it." That may be your opinion but I still don't think its wrong for somebody who has paid their fair share into the system to take a little bit back out when they need it - that's basically what National Insurance Contributions were put there for. And I certainly don't expect other tax payers to fund it because over the 2 and a half months that I claimed housing benefit I probably claimed about £165 in housing benefit... Not outrageous at all considering that OH and I have (jointly) paid around £12,500 in NI contributions and £24,000 in Taxes since we started working.

Exactly. I was working for about 11 months at a local Pharmacy, paid my tax and NI off my wages and then got fired because my boss absolutely hated me - ended up doing the company for unfair dismissal! My mum immediately signed me up for JSA and although I was constantly looking for a job, I was claiming for 6 months... My step-mum made several remarks about me 'scrounging off of her, the taxpayer'...It's not like I didn't pay my tax and it's not like I could help my situation! Even if I wasn't claiming JSA, she'd still be paying the same tax!

The system is incredibly flawed, but there are honest people out there. The government needs to stop throwing money away and work on fixing the system that's already in place. My mum was single and worked because she didn't want to scrounge and she got penalised for it...It works out better for her to go very part time and claim benefits - which she doesn't want to do...but if it's the difference between working your ass off and having nothing to show for it, or reducing your hours significantly and having money left over at the end of the month...which would you prefer? Damn silly.

The cost of living is the thing that's hitting people most too - especially with the lack of jobs in this country atm...people who were earning a good amount end up losing their homes because they're out of work for a few months, it's terrible. I live in the US and my husband earns about the same as my mum, but we have a good deal left over after rent, bills etc...I don't work (looking to start a home business) so he supports me too and I'm not allowed to claim benefits - it actually seems like the benefits over there are there for people who REALLY need it (though we're unfortunately stuck in the middle ground when it comes to healthcare...) and I know very few people who are claiming any kind of benefit over there... Our 2 bed apartment costs about £300 a month (and it's not a shit-hole like it would most likely be in the UK - at least where I used to live) and car insurance is about £100 a year for the both of us on a 3.4L car... If it was that cheap to live in the UK, there would be far less people needing to claim benefits and perhaps more money going towards those who actually need it (and maybe improving things if it was a big enough change and the government didn't just pocket the difference!).. People would then have more money to spend on things, therefore business would be earning more and could employ more people! Aha!

 

[cherryglitter]

I am moving to America!!! ! I can't believe how much cheaper it is over there.
!! xxx