woolwich

[summer rain]

This is the most appalling thing I have ever heard about happening, no jail sentence will ever be enough for what these two animals did, they have been on MI5s radar for 8 years as part of a radical Islam group but these two men in particular weren't considered dangerous, obviously MI5 were wrong. NO one deserves what they did to this poor man yet they openly try to justify themselves, honestly I think the extremist groups in England at least ones that are known to the authorities should be rounded up and kicked out the country, I don't have a problem with other religions but I do have a problem with extremist groups like these they don't to be here whether they were born here or not. it really sickens and saddens me that things like this happen here especially when you expect your family members in the forces to be safe in there home country, its bad enough waiting six months at a time for family to come home from there tours we shouldn't have to worry about them at home too. my two cousins who are like a brother and sister to me are both in the forces one of which is coming to the end of her first tour and when I saw the news my heart was in my throat.

If extremist groups should be deported then so should the EDL etc, can't have one rule for one type of extremists and one rule for another. Many Muslims including myself have ancestry in the UK going back to the 700s or earlier. Also a lot of right wing extremists would consider any Muslim who prays or practices their faith at all, to be a fanatic and thus as bad as these two murderers. I am a conservatively practicing Muslim but that doesn't make me an extremist. Lets get it clear though, these so called Islamic extremists don't want to be in any country, and I say so-called because there is nothing Islamic about them and they are actually in ideology direct descendents of a group that was known in the very earliest days of Islam and warned about by The Prophet Muhammed; so nothing Islamic about them. The group are called khawaarij. The Prophet Muhammed peace be upon Him said they would be the dogs of hell. As I said they don't want to live in any country because they believe all countries are disbelieving by default and that all the rulers in Muslim countries are the worst of disbelievers. They particularly hate Saudi Arabia, but any other Muslim country is on their hate list as well. They are anarchists and don't believe in the rule of law and government AT ALL. They have loads of other seriously wacky beliefs that are unique to this group. The country of Oman used to be khawaarij and they had to adopt a different sect in the medieval period because they kept all killing each other and the whole anarchist system was not sustainable. In terms of creed though with regard to theological as opposed to religious issues they kept the same beliefs, they believe a lot of things to be figurative or metaphorical whereas the majority of Muslims believe these to be real, heaven and hell being two examples.xx

 

[special_kala]

This is the most appalling thing I have ever heard about happening, no jail sentence will ever be enough for what these two animals did, they have been on MI5s radar for 8 years as part of a radical Islam group but these two men in particular weren't considered dangerous, obviously MI5 were wrong. NO one deserves what they did to this poor man yet they openly try to justify themselves, honestly I think the extremist groups in England at least ones that are known to the authorities should be rounded up and kicked out the country, I don't have a problem with other religions but I do have a problem with extremist groups like these they don't to be here whether they were born here or not. it really sickens and saddens me that things like this happen here especially when you expect your family members in the forces to be safe in there home country, its bad enough waiting six months at a time for family to come home from there tours we shouldn't have to worry about them at home too. my two cousins who are like a brother and sister to me are both in the forces one of which is coming to the end of her first tour and when I saw the news my heart was in my throat.

If extremist groups should be deported then so should the EDL etc, can't have one rule for one type of extremists and one rule for another. Many Muslims including myself have ancestry in the UK going back to the 700s or earlier. Also a lot of right wing extremists would consider any Muslim who prays or practices their faith at all, to be a fanatic and thus as bad as these two murderers. I am a conservatively practicing Muslim but that doesn't make me an extremist. Lets get it clear though, these so called Islamic extremists don't want to be in any country, and I say so-called because there is nothing Islamic about them and they are actually in ideology direct descendents of a group that was known in the very earliest days of Islam and warned about by The Prophet Muhammed; so nothing Islamic about them. The group are called khawaarij. The Prophet Muhammed peace be upon Him said they would be the dogs of hell. As I said they don't want to live in any country because they believe all countries are disbelieving by default and that all the rulers in Muslim countries are the worst of disbelievers. They particularly hate Saudi Arabia, but any other Muslim country is on their hate list as well. They are anarchists and don't believe in the rule of law and government AT ALL. They have loads of other seriously wacky beliefs that are unique to this group. The country of Oman used to be khawaarij and they had to adopt a different sect in the medieval period because they kept all killing each other and the whole anarchist system was not sustainable. In terms of creed though with regard to theological as opposed to religious issues they kept the same beliefs, they believe a lot of things to be figurative or metaphorical whereas the majority of Muslims believe these to be real, heaven and hell being two examples.xx

 

[babyjan]

I thought it was worth mentioning where Islam stands on this kind of violence.

This was a response from a Muslim Scholar on 7/7 but it still applies to what took place on Wednesday.

...." these types of activities will result in many evils and harmful effects.
1] The first of them; that transgressing against a person without any due right and taking a life without any right is a great crime.
The prophet said,
‘A Muslim person will not cease to be clearly and correctly upon his religion as long as they do not spill blood which is impermissible for them.’
2] The second affair; that these types of activities enforce the breaking of a contract. For example the Muslim who has entered into Britain. He has made an agreement and a promise that he will preserve the security and the safety in that land and that he will not transgress against anyone without due cause. So these filthy activities of terrorism involve breaking a contract and an agreement one has made.
And Allaah says in His Noble book,
‘O you who believe, fulfil your covenants’
And Allaah said,
‘Fulfil the covenant of Allaah’
And the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad warned against treachery and deception. The messenger of Allaah said that the one who breaks his covenant or contract and is deceitful that Allaah, the most High, will expose him upon the Day of Judgement. And Allaah will make him known on the Day of Judgement amongst all of the creation, that he was deceitful.
3] The third issue; that these types of crimes involve great oppression. And oppression is from the greatest of all sins.
In the authentic collections of al-Bukhari and Muslim, the Prophet said, ‘Oppression is darkness on the Day of Judgement’
And in the authentic collection of Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad said,
‘Allaah, the Most High, said, “O my servants, I have made oppression upon myself something impermissible and I have made it impermissible for you to oppress one another. So do not oppress one another (meaning that some of you should not oppress others).” ’
Our religion of Islaam prohibits transgression and oppression. It prohibits oppression even if this transgression is against someone that we hate. It is still impermissible. We have to be just when dealing with everyone..."

 

[summer rain]

Just reading an e book on characteristics of the khawaarij and characteristic 42 is 'they lie in wait on the roads for the purpose of attacking the passers by and spilling their blood without any justification from Allaah' and this characteristic comes from a quote from the wife of the Prophet Muhammed, Aishah may Allaah be pleased with her. My OH was also telling me a true story from the generation after The Prophet peace be upon him, where a group of khawaarij killed the son of one of the companions of The Prophet AND the two pregnant women with him, after they ambushed him on the road and he gave answers to religious questions they did not agree with. That really made me shiver how these people are stuck in the same mode of behaviour that they have been for centuries xx

 

[Lellow]

Summer Rain, you're so knowledgeable mash'Allah....Id never heard of khawaarij, but im going to do a bit of reading on them later today.

Thank you.

But i also completely agree that if extremist groups of people were to be removed from this state then the EDL should be one of them, they cause just as much anarchy but like Muslim extremists, they are but a minority.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Very interesting, Summer Rain!

 

[bumpy_j]

Summer Rain, if you're not already a journalist - you should be. Everything you write is a joy to read and so clearly informed

Thanks for the info babyjan! Very interesting read. I admittedly know little of Islam outside of the basic traditions but get so frustrated when people pull out Qur'an quotes to make out Islam is nothing but a radical guidebook. How many times has the Old testament been used for evil? Interpretation will always be relative and evil will always latch themselves onto an empty message to attempt justification.

 

[bumpy_j]

https://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/25/woolwich-murder-attacks-on-muslims

Terrible. The sad thing is, so many people will think this is 'fighting back'. How can anyone say these people are fighting for the British Muslim?

I thought this was great, from a friend on facebook:

Spoiler

It's funny how the majority of people who are coming out with Patriotic statuses, are actually the ones who have contributed least to British Society... Got love for our Soldiers? Well let me enlighten you to a little fact.. My Great-Grandmother had 2 brothers, both of whom died whilst fighting for the British Army.. Protecting a land they had never seen - MY ANCESTORS DIED TO MAKE SURE YOURS STAYED SAFE!... My Grandfather was a Soldier for the British Army in the Second World War, and after the war ended, he was INVITED over here by the Queen. So him and my grandmother left everything they knew and loved, in hope for a better life.. That "better life" involved being taunted because they were "Pakis!"... Some of the stories my Dad tells me from the 70's about the shit him, my Aunties and my Uncles had to go through is actually quite unbelievable... But still they stayed patient; they integrated with the communities they lived in and built up their lives until this eventually became home... So now here I am, 3rd Generation British Citizen of Pakistani decent, being told by people that "If you don't like living here then go back home". Growing up I could never imagine what my Dad went through, because it was never an issue for me - racism may have existed but it was nothing I ever came across. Until September 11... Racism was replaced by Islamaphobia; since then everything has been sensationalized by the media and the ignorant hatred towards the Muslim Community is so strong you can taste it in the air!! I love my country and this is my home, but the truth is it's becoming INTOLERABLE for me to stay here, so much for "A Better Life"... But enough is enough, I am going to fight back... I AM A BRITISH CITIZEN...THIS IS MY HOME; AND I REFUSE TO BE INTIMIDATED BY MINDLESS IDIOTS...

We should be showing unity as a nation and mourning - condemning solely this tiny minority; not dividing and fueling irrational hatred. Surely that's what his poor family would rather see? I can't believe the EDL think they're being constructive in all of this.

 

[summer rain]

The EDL were recently gloating on FB and twitter about a 90 year old war veteran who opposed them and who passed away recently. They are no supporter of the armed forces believe me . No I'm not a journalist maybe something I need to look into once I am done having kids I have written some articles for magazines in the past xx

 

[summer rain]

Summer Rain, you're so knowledgeable mash'Allah....Id never heard of khawaarij, but im going to do a bit of reading on them later today.

Thank you.

But i also completely agree that if extremist groups of people were to be removed from this state then the EDL should be one of them, they cause just as much anarchy but like Muslim extremists, they are but a minority.

I'm really fascinated by wacky sects. I can't remember the name of the book now but I read this really interesting book now about all the weird sects in the early centuries of Islam most of which don't exist today but some of which do. Another interesting thing about the khawaarij is they don't value learning and scholarship whether secular or religious, I once saw an article by Anjem Choudhary stating that its haram (not allowed) for Muslim children to learn maths, English or any other secular subjects instead they should only learn The Quran, basic Islamic knowledge and presumably his own interpretation of shariah law. They also believe its not allowed to work or pay taxes of any type even in a Muslim country Xx

 

[bumpy_j]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...emn-murder-of-soldier-lee-rigby-29294815.html

This should be on the Daily Mail site - rather than ghoulish CCTV screenshots of Lee Rigby buying a kebab.

 

[Missy86]

I thought it was terrible that the daily mail showed that CCTV

What has that got to do with anything

 

[smileyfaces]

The cctv of him in the kebab shop was on the news yesterday evening too. Me and OH were both like errm wtf? Totally irrelevant really.

 

[louandivy]

I saw the DM also printed a totally unnecessary article in which a journalist took a photograph of the poor sister of the killer and titled it something like 'sister smiling in wake of woolwich murders' like she is somehow connected to it when she is probably going through an incredibly difficult time right now. Its such an unnecessary piece of journalism and downright irresponsible because people are idiots.

 

[special_kala]

I saw the DM also printed a totally unnecessary article in which a journalist took a photograph of the poor sister of the killer and titled it something like 'sister smiling in wake of woolwich murders' like she is somehow connected to it when she is probably going through an incredibly difficult time right now. Its such an unnecessary piece of journalism and downright irresponsible because people are idiots.

I saw that and thought maybe she just felt uncomfortable being questioned by the police and having flipping cameras shoved in her face.

the DF just gets worse

 

[bumpy_j]

I emailed the DM that article by the way, simply saying I think this would bring some optimism in the air at a time where we all feel divided and insecure. Obviously they didn't run the story haha *sigh*

 

[louandivy]

That is just fucking awful tbh - I mean I knew the daily mail were bad but that is just such a blatant example of how they have a very specific agenda that they wish to push! I guess at least in this country we are privileged in having the choice in which papers we get our information from. I know this is terrible but I can't help but side-eye people who buy the Daily Mail.

Sometimes I find even the Guardian a little too biased tbh. I think I like reading the Independent the best for neutral news reporting.

 

[Tasha]

That is awful of them. I HATE how the families are often blamed when things like this happen, I mean it is hardly their fault and the fact is their lives will of changed forever too. Not only are their siblings/sons etc probably not the people they once thought they were but they may have to move because of it, the will probably lose friends, maybe family will turn their backs on them and all because of something they had zero control over. It doesnt help with the DM spreading this sort of crap either.

 

[Stevensmummyx]

Saw this on facebook and thought it was a really good idea (sorry if its already been posted) so I thought I'd share it here...

Please spread the word quickly, we only have 4 or 5 days to achieve this.

Most people were shocked at the senseless death of Drummer Lee Rigby. He would have faced death when in Afghanistan, but he certainly would not have expected to be murdered by Muslim Extremists while walking down a street on home soil.
His murderers, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, wanted to make headlines; they wanted to go out in a blaze of glory which they believed would send them to paradise, where multiple virgins would be waiting for them. Well, how about we create a different kind of headline, one the terrorists would not want. I would like the whole of Britain to unite in a Protest of Flowers!

As a mark of respect to Lee Rigby and a sign of solidarity against the cruel, cowardly terrorism we face from such extremists, I would like everyone to start placing flowers at their local war memorial. Every city, town and village has one; place flowers, cards, placards, poems, all saying no to terrorism and letting Lee’s family know just how much we care. When his 2 year old son, Jack, becomes older, instead of news reports on his father’s death, he can be shown the outpouring of floral tributes to his father and learn how his father’s death began a ‘floral revolution’.

Copy and paste this and send it to as many people as you can through your social networks; print and tie a copy to the gates at your war memorial, put notices in your local shops, tell your neighbours; spread the word as fast as you can and hopefully, when Drummer Lee Rigby’s funeral takes place next week, Britain will be united in a sea of flowers.

If you feel self conscious about being first to place flowers, take friends with you, remember, it only takes one link to begin a chain.
Please don’t just think this is a good idea and leave it at that, PLEASE, place your flowers. Let’s show terrorists, all politicians and our brave soldiers, just how strong Britain feels about being constantly threatened.

 

[bumpy_j]

I really like that idea, although my local war memorial is sadly not accessible by bus. Lovely sentiment though.