Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[blutea]

And since we're on the topic, this article is very thought provoking-

https://www.ageofautism.com/2010/09...tm_campaign=Feed:+ageofautism+(AGE+OF+AUTISM)

September 01, 2010
CDC Admits No Rigorous Study Refuting Thimerosal-Autism Link Ever Conducted

By Jake Crosby

Last May, I deconstructed a talking point of millionaire vaccine industrialist Paul Offit, who claimed that studying anything other than Thimerosal besides the MMR vaccine was “moving the goalpost” and therefore “classic for pseudoscience.” (HERE)

However, before anyone abandons the Thimerosal/autism theory, they should consider reading the CDC website first. In case you were unaware, the CDC has been conducting a case-control study using the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project that should have been published last January as the agency promised. The description reads:

“VSD researchers have begun a case-control study to examine the association between Thimerosal and autism rigorously.” (HERE)

They want to “examine the association between thimerosal and autism rigorously” in a study not even published yet? Isn’t that what the CDC should have done all along?

Reading on:

“…this VSD study will be the first rigorous, epidemiological study conducted on the issue of thimerosal and autism.”

The first rigorous, epidemiological study? Now, given the CDC’s history of not being honest, and given that this study is eight months overdue, I somehow doubt it will be “rigorous.”

Yet, the important point is not that the CDC is conducting a study that it claims will be rigorous, but that even the CDC admits that no rigorous study refuting the relationship between thimerosal and autism has been done. In over 10 years since concerns about thimerosal were first raised, all of the studies that the CDC relied on over the years to deny a connection admittedly lacked rigor. That means the CDC-sponsored IOM Report rejecting a relationship, which forms the sole basis for the bogus “scientific consensus” in the U.S., lacked rigor, too – and all of the studies involved, the CDC supported.

This quote really boiled me over:

“Data from this VSD study should provide the best available scientific information on whether a causal association between exposure to thimerosal and the development of autism is possible.”



I would think so if the CDC is saying this study will be the first to actually be rigorous. From this perspective, it seems the CDC is tacitly repudiating any of the current published research used to exonerate the role of this preservative in autism causation. In fact, that is exactly what it seems to do. (HERE):

“Preliminary results from the VSD Thimerosal Screening Study published in 2003 did not find an association between thimerosal exposure and autism risk and recent ecological studies have not found a correlation between thimerosal content of vaccines and autism rates. Autism, however, can be difficult to diagnose and the studies to date have relied on computerized clinical or administrative databases in which the validity of the autism diagnoses have not been fully validated.”

I just love the vague way the CDC has refuted its pile of tobacco science, which is certainly of the “forked-tongue” vernacular that comprised the British Cochrane Review, according to our U.K. Editor John Stone. CDC has acknowledged its worthlessness without actually saying it’s worthless.

The CDC’s justification for this study, however, was the kicker:

“The IOM Immunization Safety Review Committee recommended such a study in 2001.”

2001? The original IOM Report that said the evidence was insufficient to accept or reject an association? That is bizarre.

Even though just three years later, the IOM produced its CDC-sponsored report rejecting a relationship between autism and thimerosal, the CDC has still not followed through on the IOM’s recommendation of conducting what would supposedly be the only rigorous study after nine years. If this is not further proof that the “scientific consensus” of organizations like the CDC and IOM is a sham, I don’t know what is.

After more than ten years of reports concerning autistic regression following shots, CDC has still not followed through on its promise to conduct the first rigorous study of thimerosal. Even worse, it is almost certain that after this upcoming study gets published, the promise of conducting the first “rigorous” study of thimerosal will remain unfulfilled.

What I’d really like to know, however, is what the CDC will be saying about this study five years down the road – assuming it even gets published by then – and whether or not it will still be considered "rigorous.” I wish I could look into a crystal ball and find out right away, but only time will tell. I have a feeling that history will repeat itself.

Jake Crosby is a college student with Asperger Syndrome at Brandeis University who is double majoring in History and Health: Science, Society and Policy. He is a contributing editor to Age of Autism.

 

[frankenlog]

I think its a minimal risk.

eg, if I go around and inject 50 million people with 10cc of saline, one or two of them are going to fall over dead.

Just because this happened to one person out of all the people that got the vaccine doesn't mean you shouldn't get it.

 

[UkCath]

I think we are definitley going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

That monkey study was first published in 2008, it's back now and they say it's new. It was a study of 13 Monkeys with a control of 3.

Here is the science based medicines web site take on the data, which is where I would rather get my information.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=459

I think I'll stick with the information on the scienced based medicine webside as it is well referenced and so seems like a good source of information to me.

 

[blutea]

I think we are definitley going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

That monkey study was first published in 2008, it's back now and they say it's new. It was a study of 13 Monkeys with a control of 3.

Here is the science based medicines web site take on the data, which is where I would rather get my information.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=459

I think I'll stick with the information on the scienced based medicine webside as it is well referenced and so seems like a good source of information to me.

Keep in mind that science is constantly changing. What may be accepted today may be disproven tomorrow. I will agree to disagree. I made this decision for my family because we have been vaccine injured.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I think we are definitley going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

That monkey study was first published in 2008, it's back now and they say it's new. It was a study of 13 Monkeys with a control of 3.

Here is the science based medicines web site take on the data, which is where I would rather get my information.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=459

I think I'll stick with the information on the scienced based medicine webside as it is well referenced and so seems like a good source of information to me.

Keep in mind that science is constantly changing. What may be accepted today may be disproven tomorrow. I will agree to disagree. I made this decision for my family because we have been vaccine injured.

Agreed. While we don't know 100% for sure that Zoe's condition was activated by a vaccine, the research I have done and the "coincidence" that her brain stopped growing and her condition became apparent right around the same time that she was administered her first vaccine is too much of a coincidence for me to ignore. I don't want to risk it in my son or this baby.

 

[blutea]

How is Zoe doing now? I'm so sorry for her struggle.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

In Ireland 3 children died who would be alive today if they had had the vaccine.

Can you, or anyone else, for that matter prove this? Vaccines are not 100%. Just because these children died of a disease that they were not vaccinated against does not guarantee that they would not have gotten this disease and still died from my.

My college instructor vaccinated his children against chicken pox, and all three of his children have had chicken pox 3 times. There was even a case not too far from here of a child who had the MMR vaccine, still caught the measles, and still had a very bad reaction to it. She didn't die, but it goes to show vaccines are not 100%

 

[Chaos]

Neither I, or my family had this vacc. It was developed FAR too quickly and with out proper testing for my liking. I am very careful about what my family puts in their bodies.

After a huge amount of research and discussions with her paediatrician (who we have the full support from) My daughter is also on a delayed vaccine schedule. She still gets all her vaccines, just at a delayed pace rather than overloading her little immune system with 6 at once. Never has it been reported that a person has had 6 of the diseases these vaccinations treat all at the same time, so why is it deemed necessary to give them all at the same time?

I will never judge another parent on their choices to vaccinate or not vaccinate. Its not mine or anyone elses job to judge someone elses parenting regarding their children, its a personal choice and what ever works for that family. All I say is do your research, and then when you think you've done it all, dig a bit deeper. An excellent book to read on the matter, which is neither for or against vaccinations, it just gives bare very informative facts about what they treat, why they were made, how they are made, what goes in to them ect ect is "The Vaccination Book" By Dr Sears. Its the best book I've ever read on the subject and I highly recommend it to anyone weighing up their options.

 

[blutea]

In Ireland 3 children died who would be alive today if they had had the vaccine.

Can you, or anyone else, for that matter prove this? Vaccines are not 100%. Just because these children died of a disease that they were not vaccinated against does not guarantee that they would not have gotten this disease and still died from my.

My college instructor vaccinated his children against chicken pox, and all three of his children have had chicken pox 3 times. There was even a case not too far from here of a child who had the MMR vaccine, still caught the measles, and still had a very bad reaction to it. She didn't die, but it goes to show vaccines are not 100%

I would like to see proof too. There is absolutely no way to prove that a vaccine saved a life. In fact that phase "vaccines save lives" really bothers me. It's pure propaganda and when I hear it I know that someone has not done their research.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

How is Zoe doing now? I'm so sorry for her struggle.

Developmentally, she is at an 18-month-old level. Since her diagnosis, her head circumference has grown by .3cm, but is still the size of a 14-month-old's of her height and weight. She has, since diagnosis, been diagnosed further, and recently with peripheral hypotonia, seizure disorder, and chromosome translocation suggesting Angelman Syndrome (unlikely) or Prader-Willi Syndrome (more likely).

She is very unsteady in her walk/run, still developing her fine motor skills, and her greatest accomplishment is her speech. While she still only speaks around an 18-month-old level, she is coming along and is very enthusiastic about her new program, Picture Exchange Communication System (PECS), and doing well with it.

 

[blutea]

How is Zoe doing now? I'm so sorry for her struggle.

Developmentally, she is at an 18-month-old level. Since her diagnosis, her head circumference has grown by .3cm, but is still the size of a 14-month-old's of her height and weight. She has, since diagnosis, been diagnosed further, and recently with peripheral hypotonia, seizure disorder, and chromosome translocation suggesting Angelman Syndrome (unlikely) or Prader-Willi Syndrome (more likely).

She is very unsteady in her walk/run, still developing her fine motor skills, and her greatest accomplishment is her speech. While she still only speaks around an 18-month-old level, she is coming along and is very enthusiastic about her new program, Picture Exchange Communication System (PECS), and doing well with it.

I'm so glad to hear that she doing okay.

 

[Chaos]

I had this vaccine last year when I was pregnant and my baby was fine. At least if there is an outbreak I know that he will be protected

I have to address this. Vaccinations don't work like that, because if they did, your baby would never have to have vaccinations because you've had them all before and by that thinking the immunities should have crossed over.

It's always a question I've asked my self! Why don't the immunities we develop from vaccinations cross over to our kids?

 

[blutea]

I had this vaccine last year when I was pregnant and my baby was fine. At least if there is an outbreak I know that he will be protected

I have to address this. Vaccinations don't work like that, because if they did, your baby would never have to have vaccinations because you've had them all before and by that thinking the immunities should have crossed over.

It's always a question I've asked my self! Why don't the immunities we develop from vaccinations cross over to our kids?

Great point! Babies do gain immunity from our breastmilk and continued breastfeeding through toddlerhood (4-6 years) helps to ensure they stay health until their immune system is fully developed around age five. For example, if you get the flu, your breastfeeding baby/toddler while gain your immunity/antibodies and will most likely recover faster. Not to mention breastmilk is the only thing my son can keep down when he is sick. Without it he potentially may need to be admitted to the emergence room due to dehydration. I am so thankful we are breastfeeding.

Vaccinating during pregnancy is especially scary to me. Even the vaccine pamphlets says they don't know the effects in pregnant women.

 

[Chaos]

I'd just like to clarify that they do not put aborted fetal tissue in vaccines.
"The rubella vaccine virus is cultured in human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960's. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future. Fetal tissue is not used to produce vaccines; cell lines generated from a single fetal tissue source are used; vaccine manufacturers obtain human cell lines from FDA-certified cell banks. After processing, very little, if any, of that tissue remains in the vaccine."

True ... Animal fetus blood and human fetus lung cells are used to NOURISH CERTAIN virus that go in to these vaccines, They need to grow somehow.. They are not IN the actual vaccine that is injected in to the body. The virus is removed from the fluid.

With that said, using bovine products can cause some moral conflicts for certain people (vegies/vegans)

 

[Chaos]

I had this vaccine last year when I was pregnant and my baby was fine. At least if there is an outbreak I know that he will be protected

I have to address this. Vaccinations don't work like that, because if they did, your baby would never have to have vaccinations because you've had them all before and by that thinking the immunities should have crossed over.

It's always a question I've asked my self! Why don't the immunities we develop from vaccinations cross over to our kids?

Great point! Babies do gain immunity from our breastmilk and continued breastfeeding through toddlerhood (4-6 years) helps to ensure they stay health until their immune system is fully developed around age five. For example, if you get the flu your breastfeeding baby/toddler while gain your immunity/antibodies and will most likely recover faster. Not to mention breastmilk is the only thing my son can keep down when he is sick. Without it he potentially may need to be admitted to the emergence room due to dehydration.

Vaccinating during pregnancy is especially scary to me. Even the vaccine pamphlets says they don't know the effects in pregnant women.

Breastmilk ROCKS! I still have a few bags in the freezer for when Missy is ill. It's also great to dab on nappy rash (let air dry) clears it up nice and quick (works on burns and scrapes also!)

 

[blutea]

[Breastmilk ROCKS! I still have a few bags in the freezer for when Missy is ill. It's also great to dab on nappy rash (let air dry) clears it up nice and quick (works on burns and scrapes also!)

And it's great for ear infections, sinus infections, eye infections... It's a miracle liquid...it's liquid gold. And it's the ultimate immunization because it offers true immunity!!!

 

[Perdita]

I've not had time to read the entire thread but as someone who has a (personal) opinion on most things!!!
The trouble with animal studies is that while they can be useful they do not always accurately reflect what happens in humans. There are drugs that go into human testing that are scrapped almost immediately as they just don't work the same once in the human body. Viagra may have found a new slot for it'self but originally it was tested as a cardio drug based on animal studies - in humans was not only not helpful for those conditions but detrimental - though it did have fringe benefits for some and the rest is history!
It is all a personal decision however while 'old' diseases are on the decline the new versions are always knocking at the door so research and refinement of vaccines is on-going. It is also very tempting to blame vaccines for anything that happens around the same time as having it. MMR was blamed for lots of things however the problems it was blamed for tend to become apparent guess when? around the age the vaccine is given.
I had my hepatitis B vaccine updated (can't work in the NHS without it) and week later had diarrhoe and vomiting. Was it caused by the vaccine? Maybe a dodgy curry? Or possibly a completely unrelated virus picked up at work? 'there's no such thing as co-incidence'? Well, I truly believe there is and sometimes it's so easy to blame someone for something bad happening (the vaccine given to you by a doctor created by pharma both of whom can be sued though that is maybe a tad cynical) than accepting that sometimes bad things happen with no-one to blame.
I've had my flu shots every year and intend to go on having them - I haven't had flu in 20 years and don't intend to get it now and as I work with the frail elderly I believe I have an added responsibility. If you decide not to be vaccinated and not to vaccinate your children you have to do it in a very carefully considered way. Vaccines are not just to protect the individual but also provide herd immunity that protects those too young or too sick to tolerate the vaccine.
Is it an easy decision? Umm, no, it's not but it's one we all have to make for ourselves with due consideration for ot only our own health but that of others we come into contact with that are susceptible to the worst ravages of 'mild' diseases. None of us live in a bubble and I hope we have not as a species become so individualised tht our only concern is how we are and sod the rest of them. I'm not saying that anyone here as said this as I've not seen it but the worst example of selfishness I've seen in a similar debate last year was someone that said she wasn't immunising her own kids as the rest in the school had been 'done' so why bother taking the risk when every one else has done it?? Mmmmm - wasn't impressed with that attitude but then it was her decision - would have respected it more if she had taken it on a more considered thoughtful basis though!
It's so hard to know what to do as none of us KNOW what the answer is, we can only do our best with the information we have and judge based on individual risks and responsibilities.
Good luck!
xx

 

[lisaf]

Well, my mom told me that they were working on a vaccine to prevent what my sister died of that they give to you while pregnant. I believe there is proof that vaccines given while pregnant can provide some protection for babies for up to 6 months.

I won't know more about the vaccine for what my sister died from until I tell my mom I'm pregnant and can finally ask her for that information. My sister was 14 months old when she died from it, so any protection I can pass on while in utero, I would be thrilled to do.

Some people will never be comfortable that there is enough proof of anything.
You can't prove those children died because they did not get the vaccine. But you can prove that they were not vaccinated and they did die.... and did any children who were vaccinated die of the outbreak that year?
Yes... about 3% of people vaccinated may not have full immunity from the vaccination.. which is one reason for booster shots. Just because it doesn't work 100% of the time is no reason to discount the 97% percent of the time it does work (otherwise nobody would ever bother with condoms!)

And I'm not even sure the chicken pox vaccine counts in this discussion, lol.. that is such a new vaccine that they are still learning the right doses and boosters needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am.. I don't plan on having my kids vaccinated unless they get to their teen years without having caught it yet.

Brandi - Without discounting your fears/concerns or decisions about your daughter's condition and the connection to vaccines, there is one school of thought out there that says that the kind of developmental disorders that are blamed on vaccines are often just a case of coincidental timing. That there are lots of things developing at the ages we vaccinate, and that things that go wrong in development are not necessarily caused by the vaccines.
Unfortunately, unless they prove that it was a genetic or that she was born that way, you will never know for sure, but there are still such things as coincidences. I mean this more for the other readers than to critique you at all. When you don't know how or why your child ended up with a certain problem/illness, its a really rough road to travel (my mom cannot stop researching what killed my sister and what might have messed up my brother so bad).

 

[KandyKinz]

[Breastmilk ROCKS! I still have a few bags in the freezer for when Missy is ill. It's also great to dab on nappy rash (let air dry) clears it up nice and quick (works on burns and scrapes also!)

And it's great for ear infections, sinus infections, eye infections... It's a miracle liquid...it's liquid gold. And it's the ultimate immunization because it offers true immunity!!!

It's also great for canker sores and sore throats! Not only do the antibodies help heal but breastmilk also contain analgesic properties which works topically to reduce pain!

 

[KandyKinz]

And I'm not even sure the chicken pox vaccine counts in this discussion, lol.. that is such a new vaccine that they are still learning the right doses and boosters needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am.. I don't plan on having my kids vaccinated unless they get to their teen years without having caught it yet.

The varicella vaccine has actually been around since the 80's so it's actually older then alot of the newer vaccines suches as the pneumococcal vaccine, the HPV vaccine, the meningococcal vaccine as well as the H1N1 vaccine.