Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[lisaf]

And I'm not even sure the chicken pox vaccine counts in this discussion, lol.. that is such a new vaccine that they are still learning the right doses and boosters needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am.. I don't plan on having my kids vaccinated unless they get to their teen years without having caught it yet.

The varicella vaccine has actually been around since the 80's so it's actually older then alot of the newer vaccines suches as the pneumococcal vaccine, the HPV vaccine, the meningococcal vaccine as well as the H1N1 vaccine.

I just didn't hear about its widespread use until the past 10 years or so... at least not in my area.
And I did go ahead and get the HPV vaccine as I was 26 the year it came out and it was my last chance to get it, so I rushed in.

 

[KandyKinz]

And I'm not even sure the chicken pox vaccine counts in this discussion, lol.. that is such a new vaccine that they are still learning the right doses and boosters needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am.. I don't plan on having my kids vaccinated unless they get to their teen years without having caught it yet.

The varicella vaccine has actually been around since the 80's so it's actually older then alot of the newer vaccines suches as the pneumococcal vaccine, the HPV vaccine, the meningococcal vaccine as well as the H1N1 vaccine.

I just didn't hear about its widespread use until the past 10 years or so... at least not in my area.
And I did go ahead and get the HPV vaccine as I was 26 the year it came out and it was my last chance to get it, so I rushed in.

I don't think I have the energy to get into the HPV vaccine controversy right now....

and I'm anxiously awaiting tonight's Prince Poppycock performance.... I'm such a loser......

 

[lisaf]

Lol, i'm out of energy on this topic too! I knew it was early to get the vaccine as it was new, but of course I didn't have a choice to get it later

 

[JaniceT]

I was 9 years old when I had the measles. Little red bumps all over ... and 1 week off school. Hahaha! It's like losing our baby teeth, all my classmates go though it. Good thing, no one had scaring.

 

[blutea]

I was 9 years old when I had the measles. Little red bumps all over ... and 1 week off school. Hahaha! It's like losing our baby teeth, all my classmates go though it. Good thing, no one had scaring.

And now you will never need the measles vaccine!

 

[blutea]

Some people will never be comfortable that there is enough proof of anything. You can't prove those children died because they did not get the vaccine. But you can prove that they were not vaccinated and they did die.... and did any children who were vaccinated die of the outbreak that year? Yes... about 3% of people vaccinated may not have full immunity from the vaccination.. which is one reason for booster shots. Just because it doesn't work 100% of the time is no reason to discount the 97% percent of the time it does work (otherwise nobody would ever bother with condoms!)

And I'm not even sure the chicken pox vaccine counts in this discussion, lol.. that is such a new vaccine that they are still learning the right doses and boosters needed. Even as pro-vaccine as I am.. I don't plan on having my kids vaccinated unless they get to their teen years without having caught it yet.

Brandi - Without discounting your fears/concerns or decisions about your daughter's condition and the connection to vaccines, there is one school of thought out there that says that the kind of developmental disorders that are blamed on vaccines are often just a case of coincidental timing. That there are lots of things developing at the ages we vaccinate, and that things that go wrong in development are not necessarily caused by the vaccines.
Unfortunately, unless they prove that it was a genetic or that she was born that way, you will never know for sure, but there are still such things as coincidences. I mean this more for the other readers than to critique you at all. When you don't know how or why your child ended up with a certain problem/illness, its a really rough road to travel (my mom cannot stop researching what killed my sister and what might have messed up my brother so bad).

I think what we really need to understand is that vaccines are not created equal. Some claim to have a 97% success rate but were they backed up with blood tests? Rabies vaccine is highly reactive and is only given when necessary. Chicken pox vaccines doesn't seem to be working well. Tetnus vaccine has been shown to cause bad reactions when antibodies are already in the blood. Basically, each disease and vaccine needs to be researched seperately. We can't just lump them together and assume all is okay. Many of these vaccines may be causing more harm than good but babies are not able to verbalize their pain. We see them cry and say "oh, it's a normal side effect of the vaccine" but we have no idea what is really going on. Maybe that's why they recommend vaccines so young...because babies can't fight back.

 

[lisaf]

So out of curiosity... if you were bitten by a wild animal and couldn't verify that it didn't have rabies.... would you go through the rabies vaccines?

 

[blutea]

So out of curiosity... if you were bitten by a wild animal and couldn't verify that it didn't have rabies.... would you go through the rabies vaccines?

No, I would not get the vaccine because of my history of vaccine injury and severe adverse reaction. I would go to the hospital and get treatment. One of the most effective methods to decrease the chances for infection involves thorough washing of the wound with soap and water.

 

[lisaf]

Why would you go to the hospital for soap and water? Sorry, that just sounds like something you'd do at home. Sorry for my ignorance on that.. I just always felt stupid when I went to the ER for an injury and they used Neosporin and a bandaid, lol.

 

[lisaf]

I cannot see anywhere that says soap and water is adequate protection against rabies. 50,000 people die each year from rabies bites (mostly in developing countries where they don't vaccinate their dogs).

Its a personal choice, I just see the risk of dying from rabies as much higher than the risks from that vaccine... and its one instance where you know you are at high risk, and you know the fatality rate. I don't understand your choice, but its yours to make.

 

[UkCath]

I would like to see proof too. There is absolutely no way to prove that a vaccine saved a life. In fact that phase "vaccines save lives" really bothers me. It's pure propaganda and when I hear it I know that someone has not done their research.

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century alone. It is now erradicated thanks to vaccination programmes.

And okay there is a chance those 3 children in Ireland would all have still died if vaccinated, but it's a pretty low probability.

That's it I am out of this debate now. It's getting my blood pressure up and that's can't be good for the baby!

 

[JaniceT]

I was 9 years old when I had the measles. Little red bumps all over ... and 1 week off school. Hahaha! It's like losing our baby teeth, all my classmates go though it. Good thing, no one had scaring.

And now you will never need the measles vaccine!

Especially loved the 1 week off school. TV all day and lots of sleeping since I couldn't move. LOL Loved it!

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I would like to see proof too. There is absolutely no way to prove that a vaccine saved a life. In fact that phase "vaccines save lives" really bothers me. It's pure propaganda and when I hear it I know that someone has not done their research.

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century alone. It is now erradicated thanks to vaccination programmes.

And okay there is a chance those 3 children in Ireland would all have still died if vaccinated, but it's a pretty low probability.

That's it I am out of this debate now. It's getting my blood pressure up and that's can't be good for the baby!

Actually, that's a common misconception. Did you know that the rate of these diseases began to diminish before the introduction of vaccines? The rate of these diseases were so high because people didn't practice proper hygiene. In a world where toilets and restrooms didn't exist, society urinated and defecated at their urge, right on the street. People just turned their heads to allow privacy. People didn't wash their hands, or bathe often enough. With the introduction of restrooms (outhouses, etc) and proper hygiene techniques, the rate of these diseases began to diminish. Big pharma companies have society believe otherwise. It's all propaganda and it's all about the money.

 

[UkCath]

Smallpox has been erradicated world wide, and the vast majority of people on this planet do not live in the sterile manner we have become accustomed to in the west.

The smallpox vaccination programme was the main factor in the erradication of small box on this planet, that is not a misconception, just a fact.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I wasn't discounting you, but the fact of the matter is, in the case of other diseases, smallpox included, the introduction of proper hygiene techniques significantly reduced the rate at which people caught these diseases and died from them. This all happened BEFORE the introduction of vaccines. That is very significant.

 

[aob1013]

I am so glad that the people that don't vaccinate are in the minority. SO glad.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Well, we'll begin testing next week in an attempt to see who the carrier of my daughter's condition is or if it was spontaneous, and hopefully to see if vaccines did trigger her condition to activate itself.

Regardless, vaccines are out of the question for my family. Too many harmful chemicals go into those things, too many adverse reactions, and of course, you won't hear about how many of those there actually are because Big Pharma wants their money. Not enough research goes into them.

Perhaps if vaccines were more "green" and were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be 100% safe, my mindset would be different.

I can honestly say that since halting vaccinating my daughter, her development has improved, rather than continued to decline. I'm so glad I did my research and educated myself before continuing to do more damage. I'm glad I have the other side of the story rather than just taking what Big Pharma says at face value. I have potentially spared my son and unborn child the same fate as my daughter.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

My favourite comment comes from the vaccinating parents.

"My vaxxed child isn't at risk because I vaccinated. They won't get that disease and we're protecting the rest of society around us by vaccinating. We're doing your child a favour"

Followed by:

"Your unvaxxed child is putting my vaxxed child at risk. That's not fair!"

Great...so if your vaccimated child won't get that disease, what are you really complaing about? Are you complaining because I don't agree with you and Big Pharma on what is safe for my children? Are you angry with me for making a decision for my children based on what I believe is best for their health? What you're really saying is you know that they're not 100% effective, so even if my child was vaccinated, your child is still at risk. It's a little hypocritical. Yoú can't have all or nothing here. The truth is, vaccinated or not, your child can still catch that disease, so quit hounding and attacking me for my choice based on what I feel is best for my children, and if your child happens to catch a disease, don't turn around and blame it on my children. Chances are, they didn't catch it from us.

 

[PeanutBean]

I wasn't discounting you, but the fact of the matter is, in the case of other diseases, smallpox included, the introduction of proper hygiene techniques significantly reduced the rate at which people caught these diseases and died from them. This all happened BEFORE the introduction of vaccines. That is very significant.

You are completely right that good hygiene practices are the basis of very significant reduction in transmission of disease. Of course it is. But not everything is passed by the touch of the hand or in dirty drinking water and many people across the world (as already mentioned) do not live in the wonderful state of sanitation we experience but have had the incidence of various diseases far reduced through vaccination programmes.

I have some questions:
1) How do you all feel about animal vaccination? Here the research is much more easily done as the ethical requirements for study are much lower. Do vaccinations magically work in other animals but not humans? Or do you not get your pets vaccinated for anything?
2) How do you feel about charitable movements to get mass vaccination programmes across the developing world? Does it really sit well with your conscience that these people should be deprived the chance of health, and life even, because your own experience had been unfortunate?

To make a huge post even longer, I'd like to clarify something about my own position as I don't know if it's been clear or not. All vaccinations carry a small risk of encephalitis and other complications so I don't agree with unnecessary vaccination. This for me if things like chicken pox where is the huge majority of cases the disease does not have long lasting detrimental effects. I personally had measles, chicken pox, mumps and whooping cough as a child and was lucky enough to be ok. I didn't get the BCG at school because my mum felt that the risks of me getting TB were pretty minimal. Whilst the risk of TB is getting higher again at that time (and really still true today) only very poor people living in very poor conditions tend to get TB these days.

I completely support vaccination for diseases where the risks of suffering very badly are much higher than any risks associated with the vaccine and where the chances of catching that disease are fairly high too. I support herd vaccination programmes for such diseases where we think of our fellow people and all go in it together for betting social health. In herd immunity it doesn't need to be quite 100% of people vaccinated for it to work so people like Blutea and Brandichucks where there is firm or probable evidence of a bad vaccine reaction it's ok. Don't risk another reaction, don't have more jabs.

As a scientist my primary objection to this and many similar debates is the unfounded distrust of the scientific process and of scientists' credibility. The hypocrisy and equally unfounded faith put in tiny studies, not peer reviewed or even falsified (in the case of Wakefield). The conspiracy theorists with no evidence for their claims. And the huge social damage that is caused by the scaremongering. I want to see good science, good results, peer reviewed and published in respected journals and in those I trust.

 

[PeanutBean]

It's always a question I've asked my self! Why don't the immunities we develop from vaccinations cross over to our kids?

I don't really understand this question. It seems to be implying that every disease a mother has had should through BF confer immunity on the baby. But it doesn't happen like that with natural immunity so why should it with that developed through vaccination?

I think what we really need to understand is that vaccines are not created equal. Some claim to have a 97% success rate but were they backed up with blood tests? Rabies vaccine is highly reactive and is only given when necessary. Chicken pox vaccines doesn't seem to be working well. Tetnus vaccine has been shown to cause bad reactions when antibodies are already in the blood. Basically, each disease and vaccine needs to be researched seperately. We can't just lump them together and assume all is okay. Many of these vaccines may be causing more harm than good but babies are not able to verbalize their pain. We see them cry and say "oh, it's a normal side effect of the vaccine" but we have no idea what is really going on. Maybe that's why they recommend vaccines so young...because babies can't fight back.

I send it back at you, we can't lump them all together and assume they are all bad! Vaccination efficacy is not studied across the board in a single study, every individual vaccine is researched on it's own. We can use statistics to generalise however we fancy but that just alter the original research process.

Vaccinations are given young because the immune system (and everything) is so active at that age; because it makes no sense to give vaccinations in later life when the chances of having caught the disease already are high. In response to someone else's point, they are given en masse because this minimises the amount of the additional chemicals being injected into the body then are so strongly objected to and which in those higher concentrations would certainly cause a problem; also because often parents are so upset at their baby's crying they won't come back for more jabs!