Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[blutea]

I am so glad that the people that don't vaccinate are in the minority. SO glad.

I find your remarks to be insenstive and unproductive to this discussion.

I totally agree!

 

[lisaf]

Repeating an unproductive comment and saying it is unproductive is.... unproductive...
Sorry for the phrasing on that, can we move back to the real discussion? If someone says something that isn't contributing anything of value, just ignore it.

 

[blutea]

I just checked out that link. It is NOT a medical site, one of the statements it made was "Health is the outcome of a lifestyle which results in cell structure which is well nourished and toxin free. " which I'm sure is pretty insulting to those who have health issues depsite living as healthy as they can.

It says that 1-3 people in the US die of rabies each year. It does NOT state that those 3 people were vaccinated or not, or if those who were bitten but did not die were vaccinated.

The site gives no medical background for anything and just claims that fear of rabies is what causes it. That is completely unfounded and totally untrue.. .nobody will die just from the fear of it, and people who DO die from it, especially in other countries may not even know what rabies is.

That site is an interesting THEORY but is by no means something that should be taken as fact. If you want to gamble your health based on the beliefs on there, that is your choice, but that site is not proof of anything other than a set of beliefs.
They label their site Vaccine Liberation... their information will be biased in one direction only.

If vaccines don't work, then why are there only 3 rabies deaths per year in the US where we mostly vaccinate our dogs, and 50,000 worldwide in countries where dogs are not vaccinated. Surely its not that those 50,000 people did not have access to soap and water?

The thing to keep in mind is that just because you are bitten does not mean you will die from rabies. That's all I wanted you to take away from the link. However, there is no denying that our mind is a powerful thing and fear can cause problems.

I'm sorry, but that is categorically untrue. it is INCREDIBLY rare to survive a rabies infection. The first case ever known only occurred in 2004. Rabies is caused by a virus we can see and photograph. Fear doesn't cause rabies, rabies virions cause rabies.

It is extremely irresponsible to give such dangerous advice regarding a deadly illness. Vaccination is based on years of medical research and has saved countless lives, and to deny it is to deny reality.

Again...As I explained before, the rabies immune globulin is truly only necessary for post rabies care. This is different than a vaccine. The human rabies immune globulin (RIG) can prevent rabies because it provides immediate antibody protection against rabies infection even if the virus enters the body.

 

[lisaf]

I know you are against vaccines, but isn't the RIG also injecting your body full of chemicals? Why is it different than a vaccine?

 

[blutea]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

 

[lisaf]

Statistics can be twisted any way you like... maybe the 100% data comes from confirmed cases and the 80% comes from estimates.

Nothing in life is perfect... if that data is not enough to convince you, fine.
But as we've seen here, lots of intelligent people can completely disagree about the conclusion to be found from reading the same data.

 

[My_First]

These things always get heated, as people have strong opinions on their decisions, (we just need a breastfeed or not to breastfeed to get a whole matching set..), and I think as long as we can all respect that everyone has thier own decisions I think these debates are healthy.

I personally believe there is too much scare tactics by Drs who do random studies, which end up not being endorsed, that creates Hype regarding not vaccinating (e.g. the MMR link to autism, which was proven to be rubbish), HOWEVER, in the UK rates of these childhood diseases increased, as children were not being vaccinated because of this scare. But that is of course my own personal opinion/perception.

 

[My_First]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

 

[blutea]

I know you are against vaccines, but isn't the RIG also injecting your body full of chemicals? Why is it different than a vaccine?

I am not against vaccines. I never said that. I just feel they need to be proven safe and effective. Until that happens I will not subject my family to any more vaccine injury. The rabies vaccine has an almost 75% adverse reaction rate, it would probably be very harmful for me and my family. The RIG is not shown to produce nearly as many reactions. It is a shot but it is not the rabies vaccine.

 

[blutea]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

I don't trust your guess. Let's just agree that it is very rare for an individual to be infected by rabies here in the US.

 

[lisaf]

a 75% adverse reaction ... which may be as little as rash, soreness, discomfort... vs. an 80% mortality rate? I'd still choose the vaccine.

Its 100% your choice to vaccinate or not.
I don't believe and am not trying to change your opinion or criticize your choice, especially given the adverse reactions your family has had. However when facing something with such a high mortality rate as rabies, a bad reaction, even if a permanent and debilitating one... lets say it is a 5% chance... is still better to me than dying from rabies when I might have prevented it.... or worse yet, watching my child die from it.
I'm not saying you are wrong to think otherwise, I just can't comprehend it.

Hope that doesn't seem offensive.. I just see the reality of the risk of death from rabies as much scarier than the possible vaccine injury.

To me its like getting an operation to save your life that has a risk of something going wrong, but even the worst things that can go wrong during surgery are much less of a risk than death. Just because a vaccine is injected doesn't mean its any less safe than a life-saving surgery. (and most surgeries have more proven risks than vaccines)

If you were anti-surgery too, that would make sense to me, but if you think surgery is ok when done to save lives or improve health, then I am still struggling to understand your mindset, you know?

 

[My_First]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

I don't trust your guess. Let's just agree that it is very rare for an individual to be infected by rabies here in the US.

Gosh yes, totally agreed on that.

 

[lisaf]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

I don't trust your guess. Let's just agree that it is very rare for an individual to be infected by rabies here in the US.

Then can we agree that its rare because of our rabies vaccination laws? In many states/cities, you must license your dog... in order to license your dog, they must have a current rabies vaccine.

 

[blutea]

I just checked out that link. It is NOT a medical site, one of the statements it made was "Health is the outcome of a lifestyle which results in cell structure which is well nourished and toxin free. " which I'm sure is pretty insulting to those who have health issues depsite living as healthy as they can.

It says that 1-3 people in the US die of rabies each year. It does NOT state that those 3 people were vaccinated or not, or if those who were bitten but did not die were vaccinated.

The site gives no medical background for anything and just claims that fear of rabies is what causes it. That is completely unfounded and totally untrue.. .nobody will die just from the fear of it, and people who DO die from it, especially in other countries may not even know what rabies is.

That site is an interesting THEORY but is by no means something that should be taken as fact. If you want to gamble your health based on the beliefs on there, that is your choice, but that site is not proof of anything other than a set of beliefs.
They label their site Vaccine Liberation... their information will be biased in one direction only.

If vaccines don't work, then why are there only 3 rabies deaths per year in the US where we mostly vaccinate our dogs, and 50,000 worldwide in countries where dogs are not vaccinated. Surely its not that those 50,000 people did not have access to soap and water?

The thing to keep in mind is that just because you are bitten does not mean you will die from rabies. That's all I wanted you to take away from the link. However, there is no denying that our mind is a powerful thing and fear can cause problems.

I'm sorry, but that is categorically untrue. it is INCREDIBLY rare to survive a rabies infection. The first case ever known only occurred in 2004. Rabies is caused by a virus we can see and photograph. Fear doesn't cause rabies, rabies virions cause rabies.

It is extremely irresponsible to give such dangerous advice regarding a deadly illness. Vaccination is based on years of medical research and has saved countless lives, and to deny it is to deny reality.

I am not giving medical advice. I was specifically asked what I would do if bitten by a wild animal and I could not confirm if it had rabies. That leaves a lot of room for doubt and no real conclusive evidence that the animal did have rabies. That is why I answered by explaining I would clean the wound, then get the RIG but not the rabies vaccine. Let just drop the rabies vaccine now. Like everything else it appears we will not agree.

 

[blutea]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

I don't trust your guess. Let's just agree that it is very rare for an individual to be infected by rabies here in the US.

Then can we agree that its rare because of our rabies vaccination laws? In many states/cities, you must license your dog... in order to license your dog, they must have a current rabies vaccine.

You orignally asked me about a wild animal that may or may not have rabies.

 

[My_First]

Like everything else it appears we will not agree.

Yeah, but wouldn't life be boring if we did all agree...

 

[blutea]

a 75% adverse reaction ... which may be as little as rash, soreness, discomfort... vs. an 80% mortality rate? I'd still choose the vaccine.

Its 100% your choice to vaccinate or not.
I don't believe and am not trying to change your opinion or criticize your choice, especially given the adverse reactions your family has had. However when facing something with such a high mortality rate as rabies, a bad reaction, even if a permanent and debilitating one... lets say it is a 5% chance... is still better to me than dying from rabies when I might have prevented it.... or worse yet, watching my child die from it.
I'm not saying you are wrong to think otherwise, I just can't comprehend it.

Hope that doesn't seem offensive.. I just see the reality of the risk of death from rabies as much scarier than the possible vaccine injury.

To me its like getting an operation to save your life that has a risk of something going wrong, but even the worst things that can go wrong during surgery are much less of a risk than death. Just because a vaccine is injected doesn't mean its any less safe than a life-saving surgery. (and most surgeries have more proven risks than vaccines)

If you were anti-surgery too, that would make sense to me, but if you think surgery is ok when done to save lives or improve health, then I am still struggling to understand your mindset, you know?

No, I don't know. I am thankful for modern medicine but that does not mean I agree with all medical procedures. It is not bllack and white. Even some of your posts demonstrate that some your beliefs are in the gray area too.

 

[blutea]

Like everything else it appears we will not agree.

Yeah, but wouldn't life be boring if we did all agree...

I will agree with that!

 

[lisaf]

Okay - This one here 'nerarly 100%'
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

Is '100%' https://www.scidev.net/en/news/researchers-call-for-better-rabies-care-in-china.html

So, we're finding that the % is all over the place? They just can't make up their minds!

Havent found anything below 80 mind, only above...so shall we compromise on 90%..

I don't trust your guess. Let's just agree that it is very rare for an individual to be infected by rabies here in the US.

Then can we agree that its rare because of our rabies vaccination laws? In many states/cities, you must license your dog... in order to license your dog, they must have a current rabies vaccine.

You orignally asked me about a wild animal that may or may not have rabies.

The majority of animal bites are dogs. And the rarity of wild animal bites seems to be that we don't interact with nature as much anymore as we destroy natural habitats.
The biggest difference between countries where people die from rabies and where people almost never do, is the vaccination of dogs. That fact was unrelated to the question I originally asked you. Since we started discussing how rare rabies is in the US, I brought up the dog vaccination as a very strong reason why thats likely. We still have numerous dog bites a year, and some people have the rabies vaccine if the dog's status is unknown or they can't catch the dog/find the owner. But not everybody goes to the hospital after being bitten by a dog, so the chances of rabies infections would still be high if we didn't vaccinate the dogs.

I know I asked you about a wild animal, but I just meant if you didn't know the risk for sure. From your answer on that, I'm not sure your answer would be any different if the animal who bit you had rabies, right?

 

[lisaf]

a 75% adverse reaction ... which may be as little as rash, soreness, discomfort... vs. an 80% mortality rate? I'd still choose the vaccine.

Its 100% your choice to vaccinate or not.
I don't believe and am not trying to change your opinion or criticize your choice, especially given the adverse reactions your family has had. However when facing something with such a high mortality rate as rabies, a bad reaction, even if a permanent and debilitating one... lets say it is a 5% chance... is still better to me than dying from rabies when I might have prevented it.... or worse yet, watching my child die from it.
I'm not saying you are wrong to think otherwise, I just can't comprehend it.

Hope that doesn't seem offensive.. I just see the reality of the risk of death from rabies as much scarier than the possible vaccine injury.

To me its like getting an operation to save your life that has a risk of something going wrong, but even the worst things that can go wrong during surgery are much less of a risk than death. Just because a vaccine is injected doesn't mean its any less safe than a life-saving surgery. (and most surgeries have more proven risks than vaccines)

If you were anti-surgery too, that would make sense to me, but if you think surgery is ok when done to save lives or improve health, then I am still struggling to understand your mindset, you know?

No, I don't know. I am thankful for modern medicine but that does not mean I agree with all medical procedures. It is not bllack and white. Even some of your posts demonstrate that some your beliefs are in the gray area too.

Agreed, lol.. medical science does sometimes take an idea and run with it... I just happen to think they have a lot of reason to believe vaccines are safe for the majority of the population and effective.
Different shades of gray perhaps

And I agree that life would be boring if we all agreed, and we wouldn't ever discover new things if we just accepted the current day's beliefs/knowledge.