30 something and TTC #1 for a year

[mk8]

Hey girls

Hope everybody is doing well! Good weekend? I spent it decorating! Not a nice decorating either. Had to refurbish this flat I own but rent out. I couldn't sell it when I moved in with hubby and am in negative equity so am kinda stuck with it. Anyhoo, my tenant moved out and oh my goodness, he made a mess. He sealed all the windows shut due to cold draughts but this caused mould to grow everywhere and my wooden sash window sills have rotted. I.e lots of expense! I didn't really want to put more money into my teeny flat, especially as it is loss making and I want to put all my savings towards my future baby. Sniff, sniff. Goodness knows if I will need IVF etc. Sigh.

My appointment with the FS is in 3 days. Scary! Recently I have not been as obssessed about TTC - I guess after a year of trying, you kinda have no choice. It's funny how I was worried about how stressed I was in month 3. Gosh, if only I had been TTC for 3 months eh? At the same time, I am scared of what I might find out next. What if my tubes are blocked? All tests so far point to that being a v likely culprit. But i need to keep positive and try to remind myself that I am getting one step closer to my BFP and my baby!

Mrs P- have you got your questions sorted? My plan is:
- Bring my test results and hubby's SA results with us
- Ask them when I can get my HSG
- Tell them I have been on Clomid for 6 cycles
- Mention that my periods have become lighter since turning 30
- Mention that my periods became even lighter since Clomid
- Ask about funding for IUI and IVF if required including waiting time
- What other tests we require

Good luck with your appt hun.

Cupcake- hi! How are you?

 

[aleja]

Go mrsP go!!!!

Mk cleaning out your flat did not sound fun at all. Hope it now smell brand new and mould free.

I can't wait to hear about your appt this week x

 

[MrsG2010]

Aleja, so excited for you. So forgive my ignorance. ..so first you took meds to make multiple follicles which produce multiple eggs in one cycle... then icsi is when they inject sperm into those eggs. And they pick which sperm. I suppose b yourhere questiony shape and motility. Then they wait for something to happen in the lab. They picked one good one, then surgically? Put it in you. And then 4 other ones are good to be used in future and those are now frozen. Do u have to pay to store them? Can you store them as long as you want? This is all so miraculous if you think about it. Is ivf the same thing but without one of these steps? Should I know this stuff by now?

Mk - ugh rental property. Sounds rough! Your questions for doctor look great, can't wait to hear the answers.

Hi cupcake, getting broody. Whatcha up to?

MrsP - go get 'em!

Afm, nothing. or maybe this face

 

[cupcakesarah]

Just milling around two week wait for me. Think i'm due something like 3rd may but i don't religiously track them anymore. no news from me, just like reading everyone elses.

MrsG
Icsi - inject sperm into egg
Ivf - egg and soermfo own thing i think until egg feetilised when miced with the sperm
I think i'm right???

 

[GettingBroody]

From what I understand in icsi the sperm is actually injected into the egg but in ivf the sperm sample and egg are put in a petri dish (or something!) and left to their own devices to fertilise. I suppose ivf allows for natural selection because the strongest sperm will reach the egg first but in icsi the sperm selection is decided by the lab technician (based on motility, morphology, size etc). It really is so amazing when you think about it! I wonder if in the future they will be able to actually implant the eggs when they transfer them back and guarantee pregnancy?!

Aleja, how are feeling hon? I had a look online and it said that my clinic usually only transfers one egg if you are under 35 also. I really would like if they transferred two though. For one thing surely the chances of one them implanting would be increased if there was two? Also, twins run in both dh's and my families so it's always been a possibility for us anyway. Although if both eggs implanted and then split to become twins then that'd be quadruplets!!!

So, I've booked myself in for my cd21 bloods on Thursday. I'll actually be cd22 then but my dr doesn't work on Wed and I often ov on day 15 anyway so I'm sure it'll be fine? Between one thing and another we actually didn't bd at all during my fertile time this month! Closest was cd9!! It wasnt intentional - we were just really busy and I was wrecked by the end of each day and it just didn't happen. At the back of my mind I was also thinking that dh's SA was so low that theres no point in stressing about ttc the natural way! To be honest (can't believe I'm saying this) but its actually so destressing to know I am definitely not pregnant! This is going to be the easiest 2ww ever! I'm not analysing every little ache and twinge and setting myself up for disappointment. I think it's good to have this stress free month to relax since I'm sure I've an emotional roller coaster ahead of me once the FS appointments and (fx'd!) icsi start.

mk8 - sounds like you had a very busy weekend! Hope your next tenant keeps the place better! I know what you mean when you say imagine being stressed after 3 months! I think it's funny what I was stressed after 6! At least we'll all know we are absolutely totally and utterly 100% ready to be mothers when these babies eventually decide to show up!!

Aleja, I meant to ask - is it much cheaper to have the process done with frozen eggs or have they one through that with you? Surely the actual egg transfer can't be that expensive by itself? How long can they freeze them for? Will they keep until you're ready to go for lo number 2?

MrsP and mk8 - not long til your appointments now!

Cupcake - hope your 2ww goes by quickly

MrsG - How are you doing?

 

[aleja]

hi ladies, hope you are all well. I am getting excited that some of you are having appts this week so I can't wait to hear how they all go..

Mrs G let's turn the into

Broody you have been very productive booking in all your tests. I totally get you when you say that not much since you found out about your DH. we had the same reaction. It is a relief to not have to think about a BD schedule.


Mrs G, like what Broody said, ICSI pick the best spermy and puts them directly into the eggy. It is used for male infertility reasons (e.g. lazy swimmers, not enough of them, or weird looking ones with two heads, etc). More and more couples are using ICSI if traditional IVF hasn't worked or if extended unexplained infertility.
There is two types of cycles:
Antagonist cycle (takes 4 weeks)
Long Protocol (down regulation) cycle (6 weeks)

I did the antagonist which started on CD2 of my normal cycle.
One lot of injections grow the follies, another set stops the follies from releasing. The final injection triggers ovulation so all the eggies came out and the FS caught them during the Egg pick up.
They injected DH's commando sperm into each of my eggies and let them harvest for 5 days into a blastocyst. Only the best ones get the freeze over and they can be frozen in storage for 10 years. We have to pay about $300 each year to have them in storage.

During the embryo transfer the FS placed the best looking blastie into my hoo-ha and now I am using progesterone pessaries 2 x day to help my uterus lining. The progesterone gives 'pregnancy-like' symptoms, such as sore boobies and headaches (which i have both of these).

Transferring a frozen embryo (FET) is much cheaper than the whole stimulated cycle with EPU. The transfer is sort of like a pap smear except you have the FS plus about 2 embryologists looking directly into your hoo-ha.
There is no place for modesty in IVF!!

Broody, transferring 2 blastocysts would absolutely increase your chances but yes it could result in lots of babies. My FS was so against a double transfer that i didn't even contemplate disagreeing with him. He is British too so he was saying that Europe is also moving towards single transfers.

But I assume its a loooong way from becoming regulation as i guess its hard because all we want is a baby and if it means taking risks to get one by doing 2-3 blasties, then most women would definitely take the risk.

sorry that i am hogging the post with my stuff. i should have started a journal

 

[MrsG2010]

Please don't be sorry Aleja, I'm fascinated. And I have another question,

Egg pick up - How did they do that?

Otherwise, you explained it really well. I'm not even going to ask how much it costs because you're in another country so the information probably wouldn't help me anyway.

I've done some googling on the costs of IVF/ICSI and the range is crazy. Anywhere from $7,000 to $15,000. All depending on where you go. !?

I don't know why I'm googling IVF/ISCI when I haven't even tried IUI.

 

[MrsPTTC]

Thank you ladies. MK I've made a list of questions I'll post later as I'm on my phone. Wishing you lots of luck tomorrow chick!

Thanks so much for all the IVF info ladies. I find it really interesting & have been wondering the same things myself in case we need IVF. I'm on 4 threads regularly & only 1 of them has no-one either going through or gone through IVF. It seems so common now its scary. I too would like to know how they collect the eggs?! I assume the transfer process is similar to the IUI process, ie up your lady bits, but can't think how they would get the eggs out except for keyhole?!

x

 

[GettingBroody]

Great that the eggs can be kept for up to ten years Aleja! And that it's much cheaper too! In relation to how many are transferred I guess I'll just do as I'm told! Are you back at work now? Was 2 days off work enough after the epu or did you end up taking more because of the ohss? Did you take any days for the transfer? at your sentence about modesty and ivf!! The things we do!! When are you testing or do they prefer you to wait and do a blood test in case any of the meds give a false positive?

MrsP, I know what you mean about ivf becoming so common nowadays. Society has changed so much in last few decades and most people are getting married and starting families so much later than before... (me and most of my friends included!) Unfortunately biology has other ideas I wonder if over time the age will begin to get lower again as people realise the possible difficulties that are caused by waiting?

 

[MrsPTTC]

Hi again,

I'm not on the laptop as out & about so excuse the spelling but here are my questions for FS...

Cyst - pain I had last month was awful, can they do another scan to see what's its like & also check clomid hasnt thinned lining?

Spotting, pattern noticed always starts cd25-27, hormone issues? Another 7dpo blood test?

Have I had my amh checked?

Do they do post coital cm test?

Any foods to avoid/take to help?

Any vitamins to suggest?

Which lube better, pre-seed or conceive plus?

IUI next step - waiting list? Medicated or un med?

IVF wait list?

Cm has dried up since taking clomid!

I'm sure I won't ask them all though! x

 

[GettingBroody]

Good luck today girls! Can't wait to hear all about it!

 

[MrsPTTC]

Excuse me for copying and pasting this ladies...

So I have just about stopped crying. DH came with me to the appt, bearing in mind he knows nowt about the ins and outs of TTC... I hated the Dr AGAIN, thought he was condescending. Thinks I'm being ridiculous about the spotting and he's told me time and time again it's normal. When I had my progesterone checked that month he said I definitely didn't ovulate and it wasn't just low progesterone. I told him my gut instinct is I was ovulating most months, I think he took offence to this and basically said something along the lines of, if that's the case then we shouldn't get any help until 2-3 years! If my bloods had of come back I did ovulate, that's what they would've said, come back when it's been 2-3 years. I took this as a threat, either believe him that I'm not ovulating or piss off... He said we could go forward with IUI and clomid, follicle tracking and trigger but they usually suggest clomid for 9-12 months. If I am ovulating fine on clomid then he doubts IUI will help any more than naturally. He also mentioned at one point we could go with IVF now but as this is a last resort if it didn't work in 3 rounds then that's my chance gone, also as it takes time to prepare for IVF then it would be a few months we couldn't TTC. So the end result is, another 6 months of clomid with follicle tracking again on round 1. I asked about it thinning my lining and he said yes it might but if it does there's nothing they can do . He said to stop tracking my cycle except how long it is, stop checking what day I'm on, for ovulation signs, spotting etc.. So I came out, got my clomid from the pharmacy and cried, argued with DH and cried some more. DH thinks the bloke is nice as pie and is just direct. Maybe I am being too sensitive but I think he's a knob. I've thought about changing hospitals or Dr's, but this bloke is the top dog at this hospital, has a good reputation, and this hospital apparently has the highest IUI success rate in the country... At least I won't need to see him again for another 6 months I guess! Oh and he gave me some interesting statistics - 60% chance on getting pregnant within a year of clomid, 60% chance with 5 IUI cycles, 60% chance with 3 rounds of IVF - so he said "don't underestimate the pills." Whatever lol

MK hope you have better luck than me!

x

 

[mk8]

Oh mrs p, so sorry you hada bad experience. I'm on my rubbish phone right now but heading home so will respond properly when I get back. X

 

[MrsG2010]

This time difference stuff is crazy. Because it's not even 8:00am here and I haven't started my day yet.

MrsP - What a jerk! If you think he's being a knob (great term by the way) then he is! I've often had bad experiences with male doctors and try to get female doctors whenever possible. Unfortunately, most if not ALL of the fertility doctors are male in my area.

Hold on I have to go back and read what you wrote. I was all fired up the first time I read it... THIS IS HIS JOB. How can he not be more sensitive to your struggle?! !

I'm not a doctor so I don't know if your spotting is normal or not. But I know I don't do it. And if I did - I'd be concerned just like you are!

So what's new then --- stay on Clomid but now they're going to track and trigger?? And why is he against IUI? He's saying it's not any better? Then why is everyone else doing it?? What's his diagnosis for your infertility? Unexplained? Forgive my bad memory, how's your DH SA's ?

 

[mk8]

Hi MrsP,

I am back from my FS appointment now so here I am with a proper message.

Again, really sorry that you got upset following the insensitive comments from Dr Knob. Going through "infertility" is a real struggle and being spoken to in a condescdending matter by insensitive doctors is the last thing us gals need. Chin up hun. The positive thing is that he has a good reputation and your hospital is good. Following my appointment this morning, I am surprised about the clomid thing though. I told my doctor that my GP put me on clomid and that I am on cycle 6 with no monitoring and no increase in dosage (I am on 50mg). She was really surprised by this and said they normally would not issue clomid for more than 6 months and ideally, she would have wanted to have me monitored for the last 3. This is too late now of course. Remind me, were you ever monitored? Just to be sure, Dr Knob is a fertility specialist in a hospital right? Where in the UK are you? I will detail below what happened with my appointment and let you know what they told me. Hopefully we can compare.

So, I went to the hospital this morning in the pouring rain. Got to the Women's Health section, checked in, panicked when I said I didn't have proof of residence (when reception asked for it) then relaxed when she told me they will see me anyway. Phew! Got to the waiting room and within 2 mins a nurse wanders in to weigh me and to take my blood pressure- pressure a little high but BMI good. Sat back in the waiting room, waited a few mins then got called in by a lovely nurse to see the doctor. This is my first FS appointment so she asked me questions such as:
- do you bleed after sex?
- are cycles regular?
- do you smoke/drink?
- have you ever had pid?
- have you ever had any ops?
- does anybody in my family have cancer?
- do i have hirsutism
Asked hubbies some questions:
- ever had mumps?
- any hernias?
- cystic fibrosis in the family?
- smoke/drink?

After that she looked at my test results (day 21 progesterone), some bloods i had done last year on cycle day 10 because i had pain (LH, FSH were in there), scan results and DHs SA. I was lucky as I found her really nice. She answered my questions and both her and the nurse tried hard to put me at ease.

She then took a few swabs (to test for STDs) and gave me a physical exam - sticking her hand up my wotsit and pressing my tummy effectively.

Next steps- more tests:
- Day 21 progesterone again
- LH, FSH on day 2 (taken on day 10 last time and that gives a false reading)
- Thyroid test (blood work, can do any time)
- HIV, rubella etc (blood work, can do any time)
- Transvaginal ultrasound scan - can do any time
- HSG: to be done within 10 days of period.

I am booked in for my ultrasound scan and can walk in to the phlebotomy dept for my bloods on the days required. Regarding my HSG, I need to ring up on day 1 of AF and see if they have appts for me. Hopefully it wont be a long wait, I have been advised the average wait is 3 months. After I have had all the tests, I need to go back to see them about my results. They booked a time in for me- DECEMBER! But they said this is just to get me in the system and once I have had all my tests, to ring them and see if I can get an earlier appointment. Here's hoping things move quickly for us.

She gave some information which you ladies may want to know:
- If unexplained infertility is diagnosed, then they suggest trying for another 1-2 yrs (what on earth?!)
- IVF only available for people up to 39 in the hospital (because of where i live, i do not get funding for it)
- thyroid issues are v easy to fix
- HSG can help unblock tubes sometimes
- spotting a day or 2 before AF is fine (I didnt ask about a week before though MrsP)
- try every other day from day 10 to day 21 (do already)
- IUI can be tried and it can work (so dont get what Dr Knob was saying)
- My hubby's SA result is good. 35m count. But she ummed over the motility (56% and morphology (7%) but said it should enable conception naturally
- sometimes for reasons not known to docs, stress can interfere and whilst she knows it is tough, she has heard many stories where people get their bfp when they quit trying or when they adopt
- waiting list for my hospital for ivf is a year if you get free funding (which i dont get anyway)
- cost of ivf is around £4k with the hospital as it is not for profit- so cheaper than private clinics
- BV will not interfere with conception but can impact pregnancy

Oh, I was also prescribed antibiotics to take when I get my HSG done to avoid infections. Did you ladies have this?

Speak soon ladies! Baby dust to all of us.

PS weather here is rubbish and I have a cold. Boo!

 

[aleja]

oh ladies the FS appts have finally happened. good about that but what differences in outcomes..

MrsP , Dr Knob is a complete knob-head...so he put you on clomid for another 6 mths???!!!! WTF?? and there is point in IUI or if you went for IVF you need months to prepare your body??!!!! WTF??? (this is bull crap)
I agree with monitoring the clomid cycle but they should have done that months ago. and he could even do it for another month to see if you ovulate rather than 6 long months.

do you think this is a funding issue that the hospital is being very tight and don't want to go onto more aggressive treatment due to the cost to the govt? I mean you have already been ttc for 18 months so this is long enough to warrant something else.
Would you and MrP go and get a second opinion at a private clinic?
I am so sorry this was the verdict darl. very disappointing and I totally agree with you if you get a bad vibe from the FS then your gut instinct is right. Doesn't matter if he is the top dog at the hospital he doesn't have to treat you like an idiot.

MK- I am glad your experience was so much more positive than MrsP's. Sounds like your FS shared lots of knowledge and information with you. I am really surprised with the unexplained infertility diagnosis being dragged out for another couple of years that sounds extreme given you have also been trying for so long. I freaked out a little when I saw your appt is booked for December but i guess you will try to get in there as soon as you can.
Realistically when do you think all your tests will be ready by?

ladies, I am feeling very lucky at the moment now that I am hearing all the stress that you are put through in the UK public system. Before IVF clinic I was also going to a hospital and I got all mine (including HSG) and DH's test done and was back at the FS office for the diagnosis and test results all in one month. I guess that goes to show the difference that we each experience on this journey.
Girls I am thinking of you and I cannot wait till we all have some beautiful baby bumps showing. it will all be worth it then

 

[aleja]

oh as for the egg retrieval story, the EPU procedure involved minor day surgery. I was put under local aneasthetic for about 40 mins ( i think they called it heavy sedation) so I cannot remember any of it. It was like a proper surgery and I had to wear all the hospital gowns etc and in the surgery there were all these nurses ,and my FS. I was curious what happened during the surgery so I looked it up on YouTube a few days later. I wish I hadn't!!!!!
I was very tired and bloated after the surgery and I took 2 days off from work but later in the week I called in sick for another day. But this was due to mild ohss rather than the EPU.
mrsBroody, my blood test is next Wednesday but maybe I will POAS the night before as I don't want to receive the news at work (they will call me with the results). At this point in time I am feeling very negative and discouraged. For some reason I don't think it has worked. I could potentially test earlier (like maybe today ) but I couldn't bear seeing a BFN

 

[mk8]

Hey Aleja, I know it's tough but keep positive and enjoy chilling out with hubster! Are you doing anything specific? I know it's tough but from my friends, staying relaxed worked for them (don't know how they did it!). What are u up to this weekend?

As for my tests. It's really hard to say when they will be completed. The bloods and ultrasound will be done within a month, it's the hsg that takes a while. I need to ring day 1 of af to see if they have any appts in the next 10 days. I don't really want it on days 1-5 as I will be on my period. So it's the luck of the drawer. But taking the time to chill ax and to get body in good shape- sleep better and yoga for 30 mins daily. If nothing within 3 months I will go private.

 

[MrsPTTC]

Sorry in advance for the long post..

MrsG – glad you like the term “knob” Totally agree with you, I wish he was a woman!! DH’s spermies were fine, I’ve technically explained as I didn’t ovulate when I had the progesterone test. But when I told him I think I have been ovulating he then said that would class me as unexplained so they’d tell me to wait 2-3 years! So I need to shut up and nod “yes of course I wasn’t ovulating” . So it would only be tracking on round 1, and no trigger. He said if we did IUI we’d get a trigger but much higher chance of multiples. It’s not that he’s against IUI, not at all, but I get the impression he thinks it’s more beneficial for people with problems or unexplained. He did say I could go for it, but didn’t seem to think it was best for me and I had just as good a chance staying on the clomid.

MK, so glad you had a better experience than I did! Yes Dr Knob is a FS (OBGYN I think is his title) I’m in the North East. I agree with your FS that you shouldn’t have been unmonitored. My FS prescribed the clomid not my Dr, and yes I was monitored first cycle and ovulated. I’ve read so many conflicting reports about more than 6 on clomid it’s unreal. I came across an online fact sheet from an NHS hospital down south somewhere and it said they also recommend 6 months
It’s a shame you have to wait 3 months for your HSG, I think I had to wait about a month and a half. And yes I had an antibiotic, but it was only 1 pill to be taken the night before rather than a course. It seems our FS agree on the stress thing which is why I’ve been told to stop monitoring full stop. I think I’ll do it as I know when I stopped using OPK’s (except this month as I was experimenting with being off clomid) I felt much better. Perhaps my spotting can be atributed to stress as if I know where I am in my cycle then I know when it should start . I feel really bad that you don’t get free IVF and I do and there is no waiting list here either… Yay for all your further tests! Oh and by the way, so are you still off the clomid whilst you're waiting? No further cycles?

Aleja, I was monitored clomid cycle 1, so now they’re gonna do it again clomid cycle 1 round 2! I did suggest I had a monitored cycle without clomid to see if I ovulate, but he said if they did this and I ovulate I would then be unexplained and therefore would have to wait until we’d been TTC 2-3 years (2 years is in September anyway) before they’d help! As above post to MrsG, I think it’s due to DH sperm being fine he’s not recommending IUI, though like I say he’s not refusing it, nor IVF but there’s no way I’d want to go down that route yet (no offence hun.) It could be down to money I guess but they’re not saying no so I’m confuzzled lol DH isn’t up for a second opinion as he’s happy to agree with everything he says and that he knows everything and thinks he’s a lovely fella!
Thanks for the info on the retrieval, so was it keyhole surgery?? hun I’m praying for you it will be good news next week!

Thanks for your support ladies I’m feeling so much better about it all today, less angry and no longer upset, just wondering when it’ll be my turn!
x

 

[mk8]

Hi mrsp

So glad you're feeling better.

In answer to your question, no more clomid for me. Doc said more than 6 is not recommended but I'm sure you're ok as you're being monitored. I think the doc wants to do all the tests first before prescribing mess, which makes perfect sense.

Don't feel bad about yOur free ivf. I'm glad someone gets it. The way our government spends its money is just ridiculous. My bro in law and his wife are on benefits and dont work. They have a free house and are currently in Florida as a family of 4 staying at a luxury Disney resort. Now that's the type of stuff that angers me.

have you had your thyroid checked?