An independent Scotland?

[Abigailly]

I will be voting yes. I think we should (and are more than capable of!) governing ourselves. Remember a vote for independence is NOT a vote for the snp. There would be an election shortly afterwards where we could vote for whoever else. At the moment we are governed by a party with 1?!! seat in Scotland. It just doesn't make sense democratically. We are different nations, with different political ideologies.
Scotland has plenty of industry to stay afloat. Although I think an additional £1600 (?!)/ head is spent in Scotland, tax revenues we give back are about £500/ head more than that.
We have a chance at creating a fairer more equal society, we should grab it with both hands. In Britain at the moment the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Food banks in an oil rich, wealthy nation?! Surely we can do better than that.
Salmond is striving towards a country similar to Norway I believe. The happiest place to live in the world apparently (regardless of the price of a pint!), I say why not? Rather that than more of the same.
I saw Nicola Sturgeon on the daily politics. I thought she did well. Yeah she dodged the question of a plan b for a currency as we are apparently not going to be "allowed" to use the pound (which of course we can, any country can, similar to how Cuba uses USD). She was no worse than David Cameron who dodges questions every week at pmq's. Anyway although all the westminster parties have all said we won't have a currency union if we go independent, it would be in both countries interest if we did due to the division of debt and other factors . This is scaremongering from Westminster.
Personally I think we should ditch the pound altogether if it means giving any sort of power back. I think there definitely is a "plan b" but snp are keeping quiet for now.
I would LOVE to see a leaders debate Salmond v Cameron. It's not goin to happen though. DC is too smart for that, he knows Salmond would wipe the floor with him.
It actually does sadden me, the thought of us breaking up as a country. But I just think the union has had it's day and it's time to go it alone.

It's nice to see an opposing argument that isn't just a vote for SNP. It's balanced.
I don't think Cameron and Salmond should fight it out though. Not because Salmond would wipe the floor with him (which he would, because Salmond doesn't have to put forward any facts. His entire arguments are 'what ifs', automatically making a point stronger),, but because it will turn it into political debate of Tories v SNP. And that's the last thing we need. People voting because of who is a current political party leader. The whole thing is bigger than that. It's bigger than even who the political parties are, let alone who is in them.

You say that you think Salmond has a back up plan but is keeping it quiet? How can he keep it quiet? We're months away from the polls and he's still not given us a definitive answer. We can't get the Euro for anything other than a short term option if we don't create a union with the UK immediately, as we don't fit with the 5 categories of the Convergence Criteria. And they won't budge on that one. Hungary etc are living proof of that.

And with the pound we can use it, however we will have no control over it. Our currency will be controlled by the BoE. Which surely isn't independence? It also means that if we ever need a bail out we won't legally be entitled. We will have no back up.
So far the RUK have said they won't enter a currency union until Scotland is secure. And Sturgeon's go to phrase during that 'they'll change their mind after a yes vote', and Salmond's 'They're bluffing'. Really aren't filling me with confidence. RUK don't need to bluff. They hold all the cards.

 

[Abigailly]

Unforunately, I don't think there is enough information for anyone to make a proper informed choice.

If they go independent, they will not be automatically accepted into the EU. Will there be border control? Would we need a passport to get into Scotland? Would England need to change the English Pound notes into Scottish Pound notes to spend in Scotland?

What would happen to the English people who work off shore on the rigs? Where would their taxes go? Scotland or England?

I'm not entirely sure how a Country can be independent but their currency based on the Bank of England...seems a bit off to me. Either you are independent or not?

As others have mentioned, the military..there is a lot of Scots in the British Army, would they be discharged and re-employed into the Scottish Army? Who owns the military vehicles, Guns etc as it stands now? Will they be handed over to Scotland or will Scotland need to buy their own?

No - to the EU. We won't automatically be accepted into the EU. Although we will probably be, we can't guarantee it as it will all come down to Spain. Who have made it difficult for previous countries and already have a bit of an issue with Scotland.

With border control, we will have 2 options. Become part of the Schengen area or stay as part of the CTA. CTA means you will e able to travel freely between Scotland and England. However, the UK and Ireland aren't currently under Schengen so if Scotland chooses that, as most the EU are, then I think we will have border control. But it's another thing that hasn't been confirmed, or virtually discussed. So who knows.

The military is another HUGE grey area. It depends on who you talk to.

 

[Pearls18]

I really don't know a lot and as arrogant as it sounds if it doesn't affect me or my family negatively I don't really care either way, if Scotland votes yes then off course they should try independence, just as Northern Ireland stayed in the union after the people voted to remain.

But, what does bother me is it seems quite hard to assess the best decision and the Yes vote seems to be fuelled by patriotism mostly which I personally do not think is a good enough reason for independence not when people's livelihoods are at stake. I think wanting 16 year olds to vote was a deliberate step for a hastey, less thought out yes vote from young people who are more likely to be excited by the idea and patriotic (yes I am generalising!) I'm just not sure if people understand the ramifications of what yes means, I don't but I don't need to, but it's hard to get unbiased information on the matter. I would be very nervous if I was voting tbh.

I studied and wrote about welsh nationalism for my dissertation in an historical context so I do find it interesting, it's interesting seeing the impact of classic nationalism and disgruntlement in a 21st century setting, it's by no means a new issue but every Scotsman knows that!

 

[Pearls18]

It's interesting how split our poll is lol! Anyone know any estimates for popularity for independence?

 

[x Michelle x]

I know, it's pretty much an even poll. I love hearing other side to it as well (I've already said I'm a No). I do like the idea of an independent Scotland but I need to see proper plans and not Alex Salmonds grand promises which I struggle to see how he would make them work

 

[Debi]

I will be voting yes. I think we should (and are more than capable of!) governing ourselves. Remember a vote for independence is NOT a vote for the snp. There would be an election shortly afterwards where we could vote for whoever else. At the moment we are governed by a party with 1?!! seat in Scotland. It just doesn't make sense democratically. We are different nations, with different political ideologies.
Scotland has plenty of industry to stay afloat. Although I think an additional £1600 (?!)/ head is spent in Scotland, tax revenues we give back are about £500/ head more than that.
We have a chance at creating a fairer more equal society, we should grab it with both hands. In Britain at the moment the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Food banks in an oil rich, wealthy nation?! Surely we can do better than that.
Salmond is striving towards a country similar to Norway I believe. The happiest place to live in the world apparently (regardless of the price of a pint!), I say why not? Rather that than more of the same.
I saw Nicola Sturgeon on the daily politics. I thought she did well. Yeah she dodged the question of a plan b for a currency as we are apparently not going to be "allowed" to use the pound (which of course we can, any country can, similar to how Cuba uses USD). She was no worse than David Cameron who dodges questions every week at pmq's. Anyway although all the westminster parties have all said we won't have a currency union if we go independent, it would be in both countries interest if we did due to the division of debt and other factors . This is scaremongering from Westminster.
Personally I think we should ditch the pound altogether if it means giving any sort of power back. I think there definitely is a "plan b" but snp are keeping quiet for now.
I would LOVE to see a leaders debate Salmond v Cameron. It's not goin to happen though. DC is too smart for that, he knows Salmond would wipe the floor with him.
It actually does sadden me, the thought of us breaking up as a country. But I just think the union has had it's day and it's time to go it alone.

It's nice to see an opposing argument that isn't just a vote for SNP. It's balanced.
I don't think Cameron and Salmond should fight it out though. Not because Salmond would wipe the floor with him (which he would, because Salmond doesn't have to put forward any facts. His entire arguments are 'what ifs', automatically making a point stronger),, but because it will turn it into political debate of Tories v SNP. And that's the last thing we need. People voting because of who is a current political party leader. The whole thing is bigger than that. It's bigger than even who the political parties are, let alone who is in them.

You say that you think Salmond has a back up plan but is keeping it quiet? How can he keep it quiet? We're months away from the polls and he's still not given us a definitive answer. We can't get the Euro for anything other than a short term option if we don't create a union with the UK immediately, as we don't fit with the 5 categories of the Convergence Criteria. And they won't budge on that one. Hungary etc are living proof of that.

And with the pound we can use it, however we will have no control over it. Our currency will be controlled by the BoE. Which surely isn't independence? It also means that if we ever need a bail out we won't legally be entitled. We will have no back up.
So far the RUK have said they won't enter a currency union until Scotland is secure. And Sturgeon's go to phrase during that 'they'll change their mind after a yes vote', and Salmond's 'They're bluffing'. Really aren't filling me with confidence. RUK don't need to bluff. They hold all the cards.

I do agree with you really, they shouldn't have a leaders debate. David Cameron is so disliked in Scotland that I think a big public performance like that would sway people more based on personality and charisma, and it is definitely a far greater issue than that. It just would be good to see

What I mean by the back up plan is that of course there are other options for a currency (and they will be viable), however, the snp will not identify what because they are sticking fast to the notion that Westminster are bluffing. I think that Salmond believes that telling the public we could use a different currency/ start up a new one will scare people off as it is such radical change, so they won't do that. The thing is, it is really difficult for us to make a properly informed decision when rUK won't even negotiate anything properly until AFTER the vote. If we do vote yes, we won't actually become an independent nation until 2016, so there is time for things to be negotiated. I know it does sound a lot like voting yes on blind faith, but when you look at our prospects as a nation, and the fact that other countries will definitely benefit from trading with us (rUK included), then I am 100% sure that a currency will be worked out. We won't truly know where anyone stands with it until after the vote, if there is a yes vote. If Westminster wants us to stay (which they do for a lot of reasons), then they will, of course, play hard ball with the currency issue, it makes sense tactically. However, if we do vote yes, and it is in their interests to have a currency union, they will agree to one. Otherwise it would be a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And we all know how good MP's are at back-tracking anyway!

 

[Abigailly]

I really don't know a lot and as arrogant as it sounds if it doesn't affect me or my family negatively I don't really care either way, if Scotland votes yes then off course they should try independence, just as Northern Ireland stayed in the union after the people voted to remain.

But, what does bother me is it seems quite hard to assess the best decision and the Yes vote seems to be fuelled by patriotism mostly which I personally do not think is a good enough reason for independence not when people's livelihoods are at stake. I think wanting 16 year olds to vote was a deliberate step for a hastey, less thought out yes vote from young people who are more likely to be excited by the idea and patriotic (yes I am generalising!) I'm just not sure if people understand the ramifications of what yes means, I don't but I don't need to, but it's hard to get unbiased information on the matter. I would be very nervous if I was voting tbh.

I studied and wrote about welsh nationalism for my dissertation in an historical context so I do find it interesting, it's interesting seeing the impact of classic nationalism and disgruntlement in a 21st century setting, it's by no means a new issue but every Scotsman knows that!

Patriotism is what a lot of this is riding on. Not patriotism as a whole but ignorant patriotism. Don't get me wrong, I'm as patriotic as they come. I stand at Murrayfield and get a lump in my throat before Flower of Scotland has even started. Just seeing the piper does it for me (for anyone who hasn't seen it, it's a site to behold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4KMOkCePaQ)

But a lot of what the SNP is hoping for is that plenty of people who haven't bothered to educate themselves on it will turn up and vote against Cameron and against being 'part of England' instead of for indy.

What you said about nervous, that sums it up for me. Although I'd love a chance for my country to stand alone and become independent. Just now isn't the right time, nor is Alex Salmond the right person to be fronting it.

I just feel like this referendum has turned into one big political debate. Where both sides are throwing their opinions at us. And that's not what it should be. We should be able to walk into that polling station KNOWING that what we are doing is the right thing. Not just hoping. We should be able to go to polls with conviction and faith in our judgement. But we can't. And won't be able to.

 

[Abigailly]

I will be voting yes. I think we should (and are more than capable of!) governing ourselves. Remember a vote for independence is NOT a vote for the snp. There would be an election shortly afterwards where we could vote for whoever else. At the moment we are governed by a party with 1?!! seat in Scotland. It just doesn't make sense democratically. We are different nations, with different political ideologies.
Scotland has plenty of industry to stay afloat. Although I think an additional £1600 (?!)/ head is spent in Scotland, tax revenues we give back are about £500/ head more than that.
We have a chance at creating a fairer more equal society, we should grab it with both hands. In Britain at the moment the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Food banks in an oil rich, wealthy nation?! Surely we can do better than that.
Salmond is striving towards a country similar to Norway I believe. The happiest place to live in the world apparently (regardless of the price of a pint!), I say why not? Rather that than more of the same.
I saw Nicola Sturgeon on the daily politics. I thought she did well. Yeah she dodged the question of a plan b for a currency as we are apparently not going to be "allowed" to use the pound (which of course we can, any country can, similar to how Cuba uses USD). She was no worse than David Cameron who dodges questions every week at pmq's. Anyway although all the westminster parties have all said we won't have a currency union if we go independent, it would be in both countries interest if we did due to the division of debt and other factors . This is scaremongering from Westminster.
Personally I think we should ditch the pound altogether if it means giving any sort of power back. I think there definitely is a "plan b" but snp are keeping quiet for now.
I would LOVE to see a leaders debate Salmond v Cameron. It's not goin to happen though. DC is too smart for that, he knows Salmond would wipe the floor with him.
It actually does sadden me, the thought of us breaking up as a country. But I just think the union has had it's day and it's time to go it alone.

It's nice to see an opposing argument that isn't just a vote for SNP. It's balanced.
I don't think Cameron and Salmond should fight it out though. Not because Salmond would wipe the floor with him (which he would, because Salmond doesn't have to put forward any facts. His entire arguments are 'what ifs', automatically making a point stronger),, but because it will turn it into political debate of Tories v SNP. And that's the last thing we need. People voting because of who is a current political party leader. The whole thing is bigger than that. It's bigger than even who the political parties are, let alone who is in them.

You say that you think Salmond has a back up plan but is keeping it quiet? How can he keep it quiet? We're months away from the polls and he's still not given us a definitive answer. We can't get the Euro for anything other than a short term option if we don't create a union with the UK immediately, as we don't fit with the 5 categories of the Convergence Criteria. And they won't budge on that one. Hungary etc are living proof of that.

And with the pound we can use it, however we will have no control over it. Our currency will be controlled by the BoE. Which surely isn't independence? It also means that if we ever need a bail out we won't legally be entitled. We will have no back up.
So far the RUK have said they won't enter a currency union until Scotland is secure. And Sturgeon's go to phrase during that 'they'll change their mind after a yes vote', and Salmond's 'They're bluffing'. Really aren't filling me with confidence. RUK don't need to bluff. They hold all the cards.

I do agree with you really, they shouldn't have a leaders debate. David Cameron is so disliked in Scotland that I think a big public performance like that would sway people more based on personality and charisma, and it is definitely a far greater issue than that. It just would be good to see

What I mean by the back up plan is that of course there are other options for a currency (and they will be viable), however, the snp will not identify what because they are sticking fast to the notion that Westminster are bluffing. I think that Salmond believes that telling the public we could use a different currency/ start up a new one will scare people off as it is such radical change, so they won't do that. The thing is, it is really difficult for us to make a properly informed decision when rUK won't even negotiate anything properly until AFTER the vote. If we do vote yes, we won't actually become an independent nation until 2016, so there is time for things to be negotiated. I know it does sound a lot like voting yes on blind faith, but when you look at our prospects as a nation, and the fact that other countries will definitely benefit from trading with us (rUK included), then I am 100% sure that a currency will be worked out. We won't truly know where anyone stands with it until after the vote, if there is a yes vote. If Westminster wants us to stay (which they do for a lot of reasons), then they will, of course, play hard ball with the currency issue, it makes sense tactically. However, if we do vote yes, and it is in their interests to have a currency union, they will agree to one. Otherwise it would be a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And we all know how good MP's are at back-tracking anyway!

But if we have a currency union we won't be fully independent? We will still be relying on BoE to sort all that for us. In the same way we could use USD if we really wanted to. We will have no say on it though, as Scotland has no legal hold over it. That's not independence. That us thinking we're in control, while the UK laugh at our stupidity.

 

[teal]

I'm Scottish and voting yes. I'm not a supporter of SNP but with independence then Scotland would have the government it votes for. For me a big thing is not having WMD close to our largest city.

 

[Abigailly]

I'm Scottish and voting yes. I'm not a supporter of SNP but with independence then Scotland would have the government it votes for. For me a big thing is not having WMD close to our largest city.

What do you plan to do with the 550 who will lose their jobs there? And those who work their on a contractual basis?

 

[Pearls18]

What's WMD?

 

[Debi]

I will be voting yes. I think we should (and are more than capable of!) governing ourselves. Remember a vote for independence is NOT a vote for the snp. There would be an election shortly afterwards where we could vote for whoever else. At the moment we are governed by a party with 1?!! seat in Scotland. It just doesn't make sense democratically. We are different nations, with different political ideologies.
Scotland has plenty of industry to stay afloat. Although I think an additional £1600 (?!)/ head is spent in Scotland, tax revenues we give back are about £500/ head more than that.
We have a chance at creating a fairer more equal society, we should grab it with both hands. In Britain at the moment the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Food banks in an oil rich, wealthy nation?! Surely we can do better than that.
Salmond is striving towards a country similar to Norway I believe. The happiest place to live in the world apparently (regardless of the price of a pint!), I say why not? Rather that than more of the same.
I saw Nicola Sturgeon on the daily politics. I thought she did well. Yeah she dodged the question of a plan b for a currency as we are apparently not going to be "allowed" to use the pound (which of course we can, any country can, similar to how Cuba uses USD). She was no worse than David Cameron who dodges questions every week at pmq's. Anyway although all the westminster parties have all said we won't have a currency union if we go independent, it would be in both countries interest if we did due to the division of debt and other factors . This is scaremongering from Westminster.
Personally I think we should ditch the pound altogether if it means giving any sort of power back. I think there definitely is a "plan b" but snp are keeping quiet for now.
I would LOVE to see a leaders debate Salmond v Cameron. It's not goin to happen though. DC is too smart for that, he knows Salmond would wipe the floor with him.
It actually does sadden me, the thought of us breaking up as a country. But I just think the union has had it's day and it's time to go it alone.

It's nice to see an opposing argument that isn't just a vote for SNP. It's balanced.
I don't think Cameron and Salmond should fight it out though. Not because Salmond would wipe the floor with him (which he would, because Salmond doesn't have to put forward any facts. His entire arguments are 'what ifs', automatically making a point stronger),, but because it will turn it into political debate of Tories v SNP. And that's the last thing we need. People voting because of who is a current political party leader. The whole thing is bigger than that. It's bigger than even who the political parties are, let alone who is in them.

You say that you think Salmond has a back up plan but is keeping it quiet? How can he keep it quiet? We're months away from the polls and he's still not given us a definitive answer. We can't get the Euro for anything other than a short term option if we don't create a union with the UK immediately, as we don't fit with the 5 categories of the Convergence Criteria. And they won't budge on that one. Hungary etc are living proof of that.

And with the pound we can use it, however we will have no control over it. Our currency will be controlled by the BoE. Which surely isn't independence? It also means that if we ever need a bail out we won't legally be entitled. We will have no back up.
So far the RUK have said they won't enter a currency union until Scotland is secure. And Sturgeon's go to phrase during that 'they'll change their mind after a yes vote', and Salmond's 'They're bluffing'. Really aren't filling me with confidence. RUK don't need to bluff. They hold all the cards.

I do agree with you really, they shouldn't have a leaders debate. David Cameron is so disliked in Scotland that I think a big public performance like that would sway people more based on personality and charisma, and it is definitely a far greater issue than that. It just would be good to see

What I mean by the back up plan is that of course there are other options for a currency (and they will be viable), however, the snp will not identify what because they are sticking fast to the notion that Westminster are bluffing. I think that Salmond believes that telling the public we could use a different currency/ start up a new one will scare people off as it is such radical change, so they won't do that. The thing is, it is really difficult for us to make a properly informed decision when rUK won't even negotiate anything properly until AFTER the vote. If we do vote yes, we won't actually become an independent nation until 2016, so there is time for things to be negotiated. I know it does sound a lot like voting yes on blind faith, but when you look at our prospects as a nation, and the fact that other countries will definitely benefit from trading with us (rUK included), then I am 100% sure that a currency will be worked out. We won't truly know where anyone stands with it until after the vote, if there is a yes vote. If Westminster wants us to stay (which they do for a lot of reasons), then they will, of course, play hard ball with the currency issue, it makes sense tactically. However, if we do vote yes, and it is in their interests to have a currency union, they will agree to one. Otherwise it would be a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And we all know how good MP's are at back-tracking anyway!

But if we have a currency union we won't be fully independent? We will still be relying on BoE to sort all that for us. In the same way we could use USD if we really wanted to. We will have no say on it though, as Scotland has no legal hold over it. That's not independence. That us thinking we're in control, while the UK laugh at our stupidity.

We will still be independent. Just not with the ability to set intrest/ exchange rates. That's like saying the countries of the Eurozone are not independent- imagine telling the French that lol.
Anyway, I think a currency union would probably be used more as a stepping stone per se, until we could set up our own currency (this is absolutely just my opinion honestly, I'm not great with the legalities of currency etc).
It still amazes me that the vote is going to be so close! Who would have predicted this 10 years ago?! I remember my modern studies teacher talking about it, but saying it would never happen. I'd really like his opinion on it now. Interesting times we are living in!

 

[Abigailly]

What's WMD?

Weapons of Mass Destruction (Trident on the Clyde).

 

[Pearls18]

What's WMD?

Weapons of Mass Destruction (Trident on the Clyde).

Oh yes, we don't really refer to them as that lol (although I know they are!), only need to look at my user name to know what my opinion would be ha!

 

[Fergie]

Can I ask those of you who aren't Scottish and voted that we shouldn't be independent your reasons for doing so ?. I would like to know the outsiders view on it.

 

[Tasha]

I am really enjoying reading about all the different points.

I am not Scottish, but I didnt vote as I dont know enough about any of it. I do like us as the UK but that isnt really enough x

 

[AP]

I am not Scottish

Why lie, Willie?

 

[Tasha]

I am not Scottish

Why lie, Willie?

Okay, okay. I am Scottish. I am coming up to Scotland to place my vote as a no, cos you cant leave us

 

[SarahP13]

This debate really fascinates me as it is something OH and I have discussed quite a bit. He is half Scottish but totally British in his thoughts, he had no bias to Scotland if you like, but is interested.

The things that we have talked about are...

Oil- UK have invested a lot and it doesn't seem fair for Scotland to reap the rewards.
RBS- major bail out by UK (largest corporate bail out?) but all pay backs by RBS go back to Scottish government?!
Military- as said before, will scots have to be removed from British military and moved to a new Scottish military?
EU- as mentioned, Spain will make this difficult! But staying in EU seems to be a major reason for voting for independence.
Currency- many Scots want to keep the pound but the confusion and BoE will make this very complicated.

I forget the other points we've discussed but it's a really interesting discussion and I enjoy reading the different opinions.

 

[Debi]

This debate really fascinates me as it is something OH and I have discussed quite a bit. He is half Scottish but totally British in his thoughts, he had no bias to Scotland if you like, but is interested.

The things that we have talked about are...

Oil- UK have invested a lot and it doesn't seem fair for Scotland to reap the rewards.
RBS- major bail out by UK (largest corporate bail out?) but all pay backs by RBS go back to Scottish government?!
Military- as said before, will scots have to be removed from British military and moved to a new Scottish military?
EU- as mentioned, Spain will make this difficult! But staying in EU seems to be a major reason for voting for independence.
Currency- many Scots want to keep the pound but the confusion and BoE will make this very complicated.

I forget the other points we've discussed but it's a really interesting discussion and I enjoy reading the different opinions.

I think the rest of the uk are entitled to 10% of the oil revenue after independence, don't quote me on that though lol. But they are definitely entitled to some. It's tricky though because Scottish taxpayers have also invested in other things south of the border too, so a deal would have to be reached with regards to these assets too.
I don't know anything about rbs sorry, will need to do some reading about that!
The military, we would need to set up our own military but I don't imagine it would be anywhere near the scale of what it is just now. I would hope the Scots in the British army would be given the choice of whether they want to remain in the British army or move to a Scottish one? Sad to think about that actually. Trident will be scrapped, this is a popular policy.
Scots who are for independence, who I know anyway, want it fairly. We just want what we are entitled to, and to be able to govern our own country with a government we voted for- nothing more.