Anyone planning on NOT vaccinating your baby?

[hopeandpray]

Hi,
the effectiveness of vaccines is not 100%.

Actually this is the reason why it's so important that everyone does get vaccinated. For example the mmr - vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella will cause immunity in around 90% of the children whoget. For there to be 'herd immunity' there needs to be close to 90% of the population immune so any number of people opting out of vaccinating puts herd immunity at risk. It is important to remember that it's not just your child you are affecting. It is a public health matter.

 

[Sunshinebubs]

Hi,
the effectiveness of vaccines is not 100%.

Actually this is the reason why it's so important that everyone does get vaccinated. For example the mmr - vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella will cause immunity in around 90% of the children whoget. For there to be 'herd immunity' there needs to be close to 90% of the population immune so any number of people opting out of vaccinating puts herd immunity at risk. It is important to remember that it's not just your child you are affecting. It is a public health matter.

Like I said, Im not up for debate. If you want to believe in herd immunity by vaccines, then that is your right. Herd immunity is a theory that was derived from natural immunity, not by vaccines.
They aren't 100% effective, so no matter if there is 90% vaccinated, these 90% of people can still catch and spread disease, either to non-vaccinated or other vaccinated people. There is no logic in that argument.

At the end of the day, public health is just that. Every person needs to look after themselves and their families. We will always disagree in what method that should take. Injecting ourselves with toxins for 'possible' protection Vs a healthy lifestyle and building of the immune system.

 

[Natsku]

Hi,
the effectiveness of vaccines is not 100%.

Actually this is the reason why it's so important that everyone does get vaccinated. For example the mmr - vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella will cause immunity in around 90% of the children whoget. For there to be 'herd immunity' there needs to be close to 90% of the population immune so any number of people opting out of vaccinating puts herd immunity at risk. It is important to remember that it's not just your child you are affecting. It is a public health matter.

Like I said, Im not up for debate. If you want to believe in herd immunity by vaccines, then that is your right. Herd immunity is a theory that was derived from natural immunity, not by vaccines.
They aren't 100% effective, so no matter if there is 90% vaccinated, these 90% of people can still catch and spread disease, either to non-vaccinated or other vaccinated people. There is no logic in that argument.

At the end of the day, public health is just that. Every person needs to look after themselves and their families. We will always disagree in what method that should take. Injecting ourselves with toxins for 'possible' protection Vs a healthy lifestyle and building of the immune system.

Pretty silly for anyone not to believe in herd immunity as you can see it working in real life. If herd immunity, from vaccination, did not exist/work then the individual disease cases such as measles that occur from time to time in my country (from foreign transmission) would cause outbreaks as measles is incredibly contagious but they don't cause outbreaks thanks to herd immunity from mass vaccination.

 

[steph.]

Hi,
the effectiveness of vaccines is not 100%.

Actually this is the reason why it's so important that everyone does get vaccinated. For example the mmr - vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella will cause immunity in around 90% of the children whoget. For there to be 'herd immunity' there needs to be close to 90% of the population immune so any number of people opting out of vaccinating puts herd immunity at risk. It is important to remember that it's not just your child you are affecting. It is a public health matter.

Like I said, Im not up for debate. If you want to believe in herd immunity by vaccines, then that is your right. Herd immunity is a theory that was derived from natural immunity, not by vaccines.
They aren't 100% effective, so no matter if there is 90% vaccinated, these 90% of people can still catch and spread disease, either to non-vaccinated or other vaccinated people. There is no logic in that argument.

At the end of the day, public health is just that. Every person needs to look after themselves and their families. We will always disagree in what method that should take. Injecting ourselves with toxins for 'possible' protection Vs a healthy lifestyle and building of the immune system.

What she said is that 90% of people who ARE vaccinated are immune, not that 90% of the whole population is vaccinated and can still catch it. So say 100% of the population was vaccinated, 10% could still get the disease but there wouldnt be an outbreak because 90% of people are immune. So there is logic in her argument but you're not understanding it.

All you have to do is look at the diseases that have been eradicated or very much reduced by human made vaccines like smallpox and polio. What do you think these diseases would be doing nowadays if it wasnt for vaccines and herd immunity?

 

[Kimmer]

We have vaccinated and will continue to do so. I my opinion, I think it's ludicrous that people will reject advance medical science that's been developed to protect our children.

Children who aren't vaccinated are relying on the children that ARE to keep them safe. Vaccines almost wiped certain life threatening illness and disease, now there's a culture of 'anti vax' parents that are undoing that work.

Also, what about the vaccines in Africa? Children die by the thousands day after day. The money that comes from Children in Need goes towards the vaccines to prevent the suffering from things like Tetanus.. a vaccine that's readily available in this country.

We are incredibly lucky to have the advanced medical science that we have here. To see people actively rejecting those vaccines really does anger me.

I think there has been a lot of scare mongering regarding vaccines, those stories are scary, of course. We as parents always strive to do the best for our children, I do believe that vaccines are the best for them.

 

[CMarie]

We have vaccinated and will continue to do so. I my opinion, I think it's ludicrous that people will reject advance medical science that's been developed to protect our children.

Children who aren't vaccinated are relying on the children that ARE to keep them safe. Vaccines almost wiped certain life threatening illness and disease, now there's a culture of 'anti vax' parents that are undoing that work.

Also, what about the vaccines in Africa? Children die by the thousands day after day. The money that comes from Children in Need goes towards the vaccines to prevent the suffering from things like Tetanus.. a vaccine that's readily available in this country.

We are incredibly lucky to have the advanced medical science that we have here. To see people actively rejecting those vaccines really does anger me.

I think there has been a lot of scare mongering regarding vaccines, those stories are scary, of course. We as parents always strive to do the best for our children, I do believe that vaccines are the best for them.

Not true AT ALL. I don't know a single non-vaxxing parent that says "Oh yeah, we aren't going to vaccinate our child(ren) because we know the vaccinated children will protect them."

Just like it infuriates you when parents choose not to get their children vaccinated, it infuriates me when non-vaxxing parents get judged with statements like this.

 

[steph.]

We have vaccinated and will continue to do so. I my opinion, I think it's ludicrous that people will reject advance medical science that's been developed to protect our children.

Children who aren't vaccinated are relying on the children that ARE to keep them safe. Vaccines almost wiped certain life threatening illness and disease, now there's a culture of 'anti vax' parents that are undoing that work.

Also, what about the vaccines in Africa? Children die by the thousands day after day. The money that comes from Children in Need goes towards the vaccines to prevent the suffering from things like Tetanus.. a vaccine that's readily available in this country.

We are incredibly lucky to have the advanced medical science that we have here. To see people actively rejecting those vaccines really does anger me.

I think there has been a lot of scare mongering regarding vaccines, those stories are scary, of course. We as parents always strive to do the best for our children, I do believe that vaccines are the best for them.

Not true AT ALL. I don't know a single non-vaxxing parent that says "Oh yeah, we aren't going to vaccinate our child(ren) because we know the vaccinated children will protect them."

Just like it infuriates you when parents choose not to get their children vaccinated, it infuriates me when non-vaxxing parents get judged with statements like this.

Actually i have heard more than one anti-vax parent saying they didnt want to vaccinate their child because most of the other children were vaccinated so there was little chance of their children coming into contact with the disease.

 

[CMarie]

We have vaccinated and will continue to do so. I my opinion, I think it's ludicrous that people will reject advance medical science that's been developed to protect our children.

Children who aren't vaccinated are relying on the children that ARE to keep them safe. Vaccines almost wiped certain life threatening illness and disease, now there's a culture of 'anti vax' parents that are undoing that work.

Also, what about the vaccines in Africa? Children die by the thousands day after day. The money that comes from Children in Need goes towards the vaccines to prevent the suffering from things like Tetanus.. a vaccine that's readily available in this country.

We are incredibly lucky to have the advanced medical science that we have here. To see people actively rejecting those vaccines really does anger me.

I think there has been a lot of scare mongering regarding vaccines, those stories are scary, of course. We as parents always strive to do the best for our children, I do believe that vaccines are the best for them.

Not true AT ALL. I don't know a single non-vaxxing parent that says "Oh yeah, we aren't going to vaccinate our child(ren) because we know the vaccinated children will protect them."

Just like it infuriates you when parents choose not to get their children vaccinated, it infuriates me when non-vaxxing parents get judged with statements like this.

Actually i have heard more than one anti-vax parent saying they didnt want to vaccinate their child because most of the other children were vaccinated so there was little chance of their children coming into contact with the disease.

There are some parents who say that, but again, I've never heard of any and I know a lot of parents who don't vaccinate so to group all parents into that category is really rude.

Sure there are the rare few that don't vaccinate for that reason just like there are some parents who do vaccinate simply because their doctors told them to. That said, there are a lot of parents who make an informed decision to not vaccinate their children through their own research and there are a lot of parents who make an informed decision to vaccinate their children through their own research. Just because we interpret research differently doesn't mean either side needs to judge the other.

 

[Natsku]

We have vaccinated and will continue to do so. I my opinion, I think it's ludicrous that people will reject advance medical science that's been developed to protect our children.

Children who aren't vaccinated are relying on the children that ARE to keep them safe. Vaccines almost wiped certain life threatening illness and disease, now there's a culture of 'anti vax' parents that are undoing that work.

Also, what about the vaccines in Africa? Children die by the thousands day after day. The money that comes from Children in Need goes towards the vaccines to prevent the suffering from things like Tetanus.. a vaccine that's readily available in this country.

We are incredibly lucky to have the advanced medical science that we have here. To see people actively rejecting those vaccines really does anger me.

I think there has been a lot of scare mongering regarding vaccines, those stories are scary, of course. We as parents always strive to do the best for our children, I do believe that vaccines are the best for them.

Not true AT ALL. I don't know a single non-vaxxing parent that says "Oh yeah, we aren't going to vaccinate our child(ren) because we know the vaccinated children will protect them."

Just like it infuriates you when parents choose not to get their children vaccinated, it infuriates me when non-vaxxing parents get judged with statements like this.

Actually i have heard more than one anti-vax parent saying they didnt want to vaccinate their child because most of the other children were vaccinated so there was little chance of their children coming into contact with the disease.

There are some parents who say that, but again, I've never heard of any and I know a lot of parents who don't vaccinate so to group all parents into that category is really rude.

Sure there are the rare few that don't vaccinate for that reason just like there are some parents who do vaccinate simply because their doctors told them to. That said, there are a lot of parents who make an informed decision to not vaccinate their children through their own research and there are a lot of parents who make an informed decision to vaccinate their children through their own research. Just because we interpret research differently doesn't mean either side needs to judge the other.

I've heard lots of anti-vax parents say that one of the reasons they choose not to vaccinate is because the chances of catching those diseases are small these days - that is relying on vaccinated children whether those parents consciously realise that or not.

 

[sequeena]

We have always had our son vaccinated on schedule and I'm glad we have because there's currently a measles outbreak where I live.

 

[TriChick]

https://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/29/17516929-new-study-finds-no-link-between-too-many-vaccines-and-autism?lite

Interesting article that came out yesterday

 

[CMarie]

https://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/29/17516929-new-study-finds-no-link-between-too-many-vaccines-and-autism?lite

Interesting article that came out yesterday

I actually found the actual study for this and it's an interesting read for a number of reasons. Here's the study: https://www.jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf

Of the remaining 752 controls included in the analysis, 186 had an SCQ score <16 but had indications of speech delay or language delay, learning disability, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or attention deficit disorder, or tics, or had an individual education plans.

186 of the 752 controls had possible symptoms of autism. Those were the CONTROLS? Nearly 25% of the CONTROL group may have had possible symptoms of autism????

Also, they studied the possible relationship of autism to total antigenic exposure. Most of the scientists who ARE seriously questioning whether vaccines are causally related with autism are not worried about antigenic exposure as they are worried about the effect of things like aluminum and thimerosal. "Admittedly, this approach assumes that all proteins and polysaccharides in a vaccine evoke equivalent immune responses, whereas some proteins actually may be more likely than others to stimulate an immune response."

"How evidence of early neurodevelopmental delays would have affected our results is not clear; it might have resulted in lower vaccination levels if parents were concerned about vaccinating their children, or possibly higher vaccination levels through more frequent contact with the healthcare system. " BUT THEY DID NOT COMPARE VACCINATED VS UNVACCINATED CHILDREN.

The focus of the article is on the relationship between vaccine antigen exposure and autism rather than the cumulative effect of heavy metals from vaccines. From what I understand, all they did for this study is basically compare two groups of vaccinated kids, both of which contain kids with autism symptoms, and conclude that the NUMBER OF ANTIGENS (not necessarily the vaccines, just the number of antigens) does not seem to correlate with the cases of autism.

STUDY CONCLUSION: "It can be argued that ASD with regression, in which children usually lose developmental skills during the second year of life, could be related to exposures in infancy, including vaccines; however, we found no association between exposure to antigens from vaccines during infancy and the development of ASD with regression."

Also, here's a really interesting link that talks more about this study: https://healthimpactnews.com/2013/can-we-trust-the-cdc-claim-that-there-is-no-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/

 

[Piper84]

Here is an interesting link to a story about the recent measles epidemic in Swansea: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-21976500

 

[Scottish mum]

We vaccinate and I'm so happy we did! The pros defiantly outweigh the cons!

I wouldn't forgive myself if I had not vaccinated my son and he fell ill!

You must be a very confident to not vaccinate in my opinion.

 

[CMarie]

We vaccinate and I'm so happy we did! The pros defiantly outweigh the cons!

I wouldn't forgive myself if I had not vaccinated my son and he fell ill!

You must be a very confident to not vaccinate in my opinion.

You have to be very confident in either choice . . to vaccinate, you must be confident that they work, that they are safe, must be confident in your doctor, the drug company, etc. To not vaccinate, you must be confident that they aren't that effective, aren't that safe, don't have much confidence in the drug company, and you must instead have confidence in the body's immune system, the information you're researching to come to the conclusion that you did, etc.

 

[Scottish mum]

It's more common nowadays for babies to have there vaccines and not be ill as a result. I know of no babies in my area who have not been vaccinated! I also have not heard of any baby getting ill due to being vaccinated!! So I think that's why so many people vaccinate as its something most people do with no consequences!

 

[Pearls18]

I don't get into this debate usually, because as far as I am concerned there is no debate, this isn't a controversial area, for me it's black and white: vaccinate, or risk your child's (and others) lives. When I mention to people in 'real life' that in places like BnB it is a contentious issue people are genuinely shocked. It scares me that people come onto things like this none the wiser and then start over-evaluating things and making bad choices.

Anyways, the reason I am posting is because in Swansea (a city in Wales, UK for people further afield who haven&#8217;t heard of it) is having a terrifying measles outbreak, I think somebody recently posted about it on this thread, this was published today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22089485

 

[sequeena]

Yup that's where I am. I spent 2 and a half hours last week queuing for an MMR booster for my son then yesterday at baby clinic I was waiting a further 2 hours because mums were taking their kids there for the MMR. They're running more drop in clinics in the hospitals this Saturday so I've no doubt hundreds will turn up again.

It doesn't seem to be affecting day to day life too much but there's definitely less kids out and I imagine soft plays and other kids places are taking a battering when this week should be one of their busiest weeks (Easter school holiday).

Several of my friends children have come down with it. They're very unwell but should recover with no problems.

I have to say well done to the nhs who have responded as fast as they could. When I took Thomas for the booster there were only 2 nurses to vaccinate hundreds of people. I imagine they didn't get a break all day.

 

[Pearls18]

Yup that's where I am. I spent 2 and a half hours last week queuing for an MMR booster for my son then yesterday at baby clinic I was waiting a further 2 hours because mums were taking their kids there for the MMR. They're running more drop in clinics in the hospitals this Saturday so I've no doubt hundreds will turn up again.

It doesn't seem to be affecting day to day life too much but there's definitely less kids out and I imagine soft plays and other kids places are taking a battering when this week should be one of their busiest weeks (Easter school holiday).

Several of my friends children have come down with it. They're very unwell but should recover with no problems.

I have to say well done to the nhs who have responded as fast as they could. When I took Thomas for the booster there were only 2 nurses to vaccinate hundreds of people. I imagine they didn't get a break all day.

It sounds so scary, I don't live in Wales anymore but they've been showing it on the National news and it sounds like the NHS in South Wales and all the staff have been working really hard to deal with it, we're so lucky to have the NHS!!

 

[xsadiex]

My MIL said it was common place to have measles as a child and is shocked there is so much panic as complications are so rare.

I wonder what the percentage of complications/deaths will be?