BF in a jacuzzi?????

[JASMAK]

If this was a sandwhich, would anyone care? Its because it came out of a boob. But, its the same as a sandwhich. Book of who cares. People need to get over it.

 

[JASMAK]

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

 

[JASMAK]

The law states that it is NOT illegal to ask someone to not BF when there is a health and safety risk which there is in this case

Dont understand why it would be?

It would be illegal where I live to ask here. Perhaps your country needs more modern laws.

 

[Strike]

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

No, but you are taught to be aware of your surroundings, which would include identifying people who may be in a situation in which they are not aware of what is going on around them or in a situation which may put them at risk if they were to get bumped or were to slip.

At least, that's what I was taught when I was training and worked as a lifeguard.

 

[JASMAK]

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

No, but you are taught to be aware of your surroundings, which would include identifying people who may be in a situation in which they are not aware of what is going on around them or in a situation which may put them at risk if they were to get bumped or were to slip.

At least, that's what I was taught when I was training and worked as a lifeguard.

Ummmm...no, breastfeeding would not be that. If you took NLS then you would know. And, even in AB, you cant ask someone to leave or stop BFing. I worked in Calgary, trained in BC and worked in BC and trained yearly in Vancouver Lifeguard Schhol, and taught NLS....its such a load of horse crap.

 

[staralfur]

Maybe that's her own interpretation of the situation? You could probably get your point across without suggesting she's a liar or an idiot.

 

[Foogirl]

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

No, but you are taught to be aware of your surroundings, which would include identifying people who may be in a situation in which they are not aware of what is going on around them or in a situation which may put them at risk if they were to get bumped or were to slip.

At least, that's what I was taught when I was training and worked as a lifeguard.

Ummmm...no, breastfeeding would not be that. If you took NLS then you would know. And, even in AB, you cant ask someone to leave or stop BFing. I worked in Calgary, trained in BC and worked in BC and trained yearly in Vancouver Lifeguard Schhol, and taught NLS....its such a load of horse crap.

So, someone is sitting, say on the main ladder in to the pool. You can't ask them to move? Or at the entrance to poolside, or the bottom of a slide, or in front of a fire exit.

I think the point being made is that the right to BF anywhere does not trump every single rule that might be in place for that establishment. And being asked to move to a more suitable place is not illegal. Being asked to move to a private area is not acceptable, but being asked to move to another public area close by where you aren't risking other people is wholly acceptable.

 

[smokey]

If what the staff said was true about how it was "nasty and disgusting" then I would agree for her to be outraged on that aspect.

I remember that story about Claire's! Hard for me to wrap my mind around that one as our Claire's is directly in front of the food court. Plus that is one tiny, cramped, stuffed to the teeth type of store as well.

I remember that one, again I think that was a case of making a point just to make a point.
See if anyone complains so you can make a scene sort of thing.

 

[smokey]

Why on earth do it in an inconvenient place or where there are no food/drink rules in place, when you can take a moment to find somewhere else? Again, we're not talking about a toilet here. Take a seat beside the pool. Take the baby into the mall and sit down across from the store. I don't see why this is so difficult with an OLDER baby.

That Claires story really was so strange and I definitely agree that mom needed to gtfo. In this case, though, if getting in the water was stressful to the baby, can you really imagine taking your 9 mo old in the pool, he gets stressed out, climb out of the pool, boob him. Then try to get back in the pool He gets stressed out, you have to get out again, boob him. Then try to get back in the pool. He gets stressed out, ad nauseum. Wouldn't it make more sense anyway to just boob him in the water for 1 minute so that he's calm in the water. Instead of the safety risk of getting in/out/in/out/in/out of the pool however many times it takes with a wet baby in your arms screaming and posturing over hard tiles?

Not really. what would make more sense to me would be to leave rather then repeatedly stressing the child out for something they clearly are not ready for yet.

 

[smokey]

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

No, but you are taught to be aware of your surroundings, which would include identifying people who may be in a situation in which they are not aware of what is going on around them or in a situation which may put them at risk if they were to get bumped or were to slip.

At least, that's what I was taught when I was training and worked as a lifeguard.

Ummmm...no, breastfeeding would not be that. If you took NLS then you would know. And, even in AB, you cant ask someone to leave or stop BFing. I worked in Calgary, trained in BC and worked in BC and trained yearly in Vancouver Lifeguard Schhol, and taught NLS....its such a load of horse crap.

She was neither asked to leave or stop, she was asked to move out of the water to the side area where food and drink was allowed.

 

[smokey]

Thing is the reasons why that HnS rule is in place or the sense behind it is irrelevant, The fact that it is one of their rules and anyone that pays, enters and uses those facailities is technicaly agreeing to it upon entry.
I have been to many pools that have as one of their rules no petting which is a bit silly seen as you see people kissing in everyday life even just walking down the high street but the fact is its one of their rules and you agree to it by using the place.
If you don't agree to it either don't use it or raise your grievances before you pay and enter.

Foogirl has raised a interesting scene.
If we take the whole scenario out of this place and use it somewhere else ie a woman pulls up a chair in a food court in front of the fire exit and starts to BF and a security guard asks her to move away from the exit door to another table he is not breaking the law, he is not asking her to stop or leave or move to a private area.
He is mearly asking her to do so in a place that doesn't cause a problem, the fact that she is NIP has nothing to do with it as he would say the same thing to anyone sitting their for whatever reason.
Would anyone bat a eyelid and accuse this of being a NIP issue? no I doubt it, its a safety issue not a NIP issue.

 

[MommyJogger]

Thing is the reasons why that HnS rule is in place or the sense behind it is irrelevant, The fact that it is one of their rules and anyone that pays, enters and uses those facailities is technicaly agreeing to it upon entry.
I have been to many pools that have as one of their rules no petting which is a bit silly seen as you see people kissing in everyday life even just walking down the high street but the fact is its one of their rules and you agree to it by using the place.
If you don't agree to it either don't use it or raise your grievances before you pay and enter.

Foogirl has raised a interesting scene.
If we take the whole scenario out of this place and use it somewhere else ie a woman pulls up a chair in a food court in front of the fire exit and starts to BF and a security guard asks her to move away from the exit door to another table he is not breaking the law, he is not asking her to stop or leave or move to a private area.
He is mearly asking her to do so in a place that doesn't cause a problem, the fact that she is NIP has nothing to do with it as he would say the same thing to anyone sitting their for whatever reason.
Would anyone bat a eyelid and accuse this of being a NIP issue? no I doubt it, its a safety issue not a NIP issue.

Under your example, they would have to ask anyone sitting in the pool to move to the side. If other people were sitting in front of the fire door and they only asked the nursing woman to move, it would be a nursing issue. Because other people were sitting in the pool and weren't asked to get out and move. It was the nursing that somehow made it an issue. So it's a nursing issue, even if not a classic NIP one.

 

[smokey]

I give up, that didnt really have anything ti do wirh what i was on about and i didnt say anything about others sitting by the door and not being asked to move.
My comparison was doing somthing in a inconvieniant or place and being asked to move away a bit but not being asked to leave, stop or go somwhere out of sight.

 

[MommyJogger]

I give up, that didnt really have anything ti do wirh what i was on about and i didnt say anything about others sitting by the door and not being asked to move.
My comparison was doing somthing in a inconvieniant or place and being asked to move away a bit but not being asked to leave, stop or go somwhere out of sight.

But your analogy didn't make sense. If the law says you can bf anywhere both mom and baby are allowed to be, then the law doesn't protect nursing in front of fire doors. But it might apply to nursing in a pool because both are allowed to be there.

 

[Tiff]

I give up, that didnt really have anything ti do wirh what i was on about and i didnt say anything about others sitting by the door and not being asked to move.
My comparison was doing somthing in a inconvieniant or place and being asked to move away a bit but not being asked to leave, stop or go somwhere out of sight.

But your analogy didn't make sense. If the law says you can bf anywhere both mom and baby are allowed to be, then the law doesn't protect nursing in front of fire doors. But it might apply to nursing in a pool because both are allowed to be there.

For argument's sake, I personally wouldn't understand the need to nurse by fire doors when there are more comfortable places to sit in a mall etc... like the cushy benches that they have in the middle of the walkways or food court.

But I do get what she was trying to say.

 

[Foogirl]

Jeez oh, talk about deliberately missing the point. Why would they have to ask everyone using the pool to leave? She was the only one breaking the rules. And regardless of whether you think the rules around food extend to breastmilk, the staff obviously interpreted that they did. Regardless of whether you think the no food or drink rule is the right one in a pool, the rule is there nonetheless. As smokey says, you abide by the rules or you go somewhere else. Of course, it matters what the woman was told and why the staff asked her to stop or move. If she was asked to stop doing it anywhere in the area then that was wrong. If she was told to cover up from an indecency point of view, that was wrong. If she was asked to move from the pool to poolside because of the no food or drink rule then that's fair enough. When you are BFing, you CAN be asked to move somewhere else, if there is a good, sound reason for doing so. That you don't agree with an organsation's reasoning is irrelevant and as long as the organisation is not being discriminatory then you need to respect their request. Given that the pool would have ejected anyone feeding their child whether it is using a breast, or a bottle, or a packet of quavers, then the request cannot be considered discriminatory.

This whole thing does NIP absolutely no favours whatsoever. It is not normalising BFing or NIP, it is alienating people and as has been shown here, many of those people are huge supporters not only of BFing, but also of NIP. I BFed pretty much anywhere, but I was always mindful of my environment. Being a parent, being a BFing mum, does not give you an absolute right to do whatever you want, wherever you want. Any rights you have should be tempered by your responsibilities.

 

[MommyJogger]

Jeez oh, talk about deliberately missing the point. Why would they have to ask everyone using the pool to leave? She was the only one breaking the rules. And regardless of whether you think the rules around food extend to breastmilk, the staff obviously interpreted that they did. Regardless of whether you think the no food or drink rule is the right one in a pool, the rule is there nonetheless. As smokey says, you abide by the rules or you go somewhere else. Of course, it matters what the woman was told and why the staff asked her to stop or move. If she was asked to stop doing it anywhere in the area then that was wrong. If she was told to cover up from an indecency point of view, that was wrong. If she was asked to move from the pool to poolside because of the no food or drink rule then that's fair enough. When you are BFing, you CAN be asked to move somewhere else, if there is a good, sound reason for doing so. That you don't agree with an organsation's reasoning is irrelevant and as long as the organisation is not being discriminatory then you need to respect their request. Given that the pool would have ejected anyone feeding their child whether it is using a breast, or a bottle, or a packet of quavers, then the request cannot be considered discriminatory.

This whole thing does NIP absolutely no favours whatsoever. It is not normalising BFing or NIP, it is alienating people and as has been shown here, many of those people are huge supporters not only of BFing, but also of NIP. I BFed pretty much anywhere, but I was always mindful of my environment. Being a parent, being a BFing mum, does not give you an absolute right to do whatever you want, wherever you want. Any rights you have should be tempered by your responsibilities.

I think you might be the one who missed the point.
Smokey's analogy was one where the law regarding a woman's right to nip isn't protected-- because she was in a space no one is allowed to loiter. Obviously, both mom and baby are allowed in the pool, so there's a question of whether she was within her legal rights that have been legally interpreted (via legal precedent) that mom can nurse wherever both she and baby are allowed to be.
Re bolded: a "good, sound reason" isn't decided by someone's opinion, it's decided by law. Just because you or Smokey or lifeguard whoever think it's a 'good, sound reason' doesn't make it so. That's why I asked if we had any legal experts on the forum. There have been legal precedents where bm and formula have been determined to not be bound by "no food and drink" rules.
Never have I said that breastfeeding gives you the right to do however you please. I would never support a breastfeeding woman squirting someone. I would never support a breastfeeding woman nursing someone else's baby against the mom's will. So stop exaggerating and saying that anyone is arguing that breastfeeding puts you above all rules and laws, because no one is saying that ffs!
This is getting tiring responding to people who jump in without bothering to read the previous thread page or use any kind of objective analytical sense at all.
No one has a responsibility to give up their legal rights just because you think they should. I wanted to debate the legalities of the scenario. Obviously no one else wants to do that, so I'm done.

 

[Foogirl]

Please yourself. I think a deliberate attempt to fail to see the point is what is impeding your debate. It is erroneous to say "the law will decide" rather than me or smokey or the lifeguard, because the law is very much based on whether me and smokey and the lifeguard deem the argument to be reasonable. In the UK it is referred to as "the man on the clapham omnibus" in other words it is about how the average person would view a situation. "The law" isn't a fixed entity that has all the answers and this sort of scenario has been dealt with many times in many different situations and no one answer comes back.

If you look at the number of responses here, and take an overview of for and against it is clear "the man on the clapham omnibus" thinks in this situation the lifeguard was right. I have never seen an NIP story on here so widely in agreement, across all sides.

 

[JASMAK]

Yup, we had this come up. It was a big no no and caused alot of grief or managment/city. Its a slippery slope. One must be very careful.

The point is though, is the lifeguards of the pool are charged with the safety of their patrons, whether they are swimming or not. They made a call that a woman BFing in (on the side of?) the pool was a safety risk and so they asked her to move. Who are we to tell them how to do their jobs? We aren't lifeguards.

In fact, how many times have we all gotten pissed off because someone tried to tell us how to parent our own children? These people aren't the parents of our child. How dare they tell us how to do our jobs! The nerve!

How, then, can we tell someone else how to do their job, whether we agree with it or not?

Actually, my husband and I both, for many years, professional lifeguards....and that is absurd and ridiculous. No where is it EVER taught in lifeguarding that breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, or eating is a hazard....in lifeguarding.

No, but you are taught to be aware of your surroundings, which would include identifying people who may be in a situation in which they are not aware of what is going on around them or in a situation which may put them at risk if they were to get bumped or were to slip.

At least, that's what I was taught when I was training and worked as a lifeguard.

Ummmm...no, breastfeeding would not be that. If you took NLS then you would know. And, even in AB, you cant ask someone to leave or stop BFing. I worked in Calgary, trained in BC and worked in BC and trained yearly in Vancouver Lifeguard Schhol, and taught NLS....its such a load of horse crap.

She was neither asked to leave or stop, she was asked to move out of the water to the side area where food and drink was allowed.

 

[vaniilla]

I find it very strange indeed, all the pools/spas I've been to always have clear signs that say under 16's are not allowed in the hot tub, sauna or steam rooms for safety reasons and because the water is deemed too hot.

I don't really see why it's caused such hoo-haa, they don't want people eating or drinking in there which is what the baby was doing, when lo was younger and we did puddle ducks swimming lessons parents had to get out of the pool to feed babies and I didn't see anybody protesting or kicking up a fuss